Talk:Meena/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Meena. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Error in External link

The first external link (http://www.lostbooks.net/cgi-bin/lbn455/17072.html) in the 'Reference' section doesn't work. It links to another book ! -- PFHLai 22:39, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)

Spelling ....

Is it Rajput or Rajpoot ? Mina or Meena ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.230.70 (talk • contribs) 14:15, July 14, 2004

Mina is not so comman way to write these days but Meena is very comman.

if you like to hear how meena is actually called, Then click the link.

http://www.lifl.fr/~meena/meena_called/meena_called.wav

For Rajput and Rajpoot both are correct. And it pronounced same as written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.206.11.73 (talk • contribs) 15:48, April 24, 2005

Question

In current days, how one can imagine the MEENAs, who were always part and with the social system of Rajasthan. Should be called tribes. History was partially re-written by Rajputs. Who are nothing but mix creed of these local tribes at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.206.11.73 (talk • contribs) 15:29, April 24, 2005

Taur

With regards to the sentence that refers to the Taur kings of Delhi.

Taurs= six-limbed creatures??!

Something doesn't seem right here.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maharaj Devraj (talk • contribs) 14:42, June 15, 2006

strange vagueness

"Toward the end of the century..." Which century? --Oop 13:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

According to Britannica, "the Minas are possibly of inner Asiatic origin, and tradition suggests that they migrated to India in the 7th century with the Rajputs

Forget about Britannica,many important scholars specially james tod described them as indigenous tribe in his book "anals and antiquities of rajasthan.It was the first book ever in which something was written about meenas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.180.118 (talk • contribs) 13:21, December 6, 2007

WP:INDIA Banner/Rajasthan workgroup Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Rajasthan workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Rajasthan or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 07:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

RE: The factual accuracy of this article is disputed

attn: Wikipedia:Administrators,

Dear Satyashodak

It would be very helpful, if you understand the difference between Indian mythology, religion and constitution. Today in Rajasthan, you have reservation for Bharmins, Rajputs and Jats also. Does it mean socially they are lower cast or discriminated? Same Meenas are in ST category in Rajasthan but in MP, UP, Maharashtra (pardeshi community) they come under General category. However, a small fraction of tribal Meenas come under ST in MP (in Sironj Sub-Division of Vidisha District) as well. Like Gujjars in India, they are OBC, ST and general category in different states of India and still mentioned mythological under “Kshatriya”.

Meenas are mentioned as ST over wiki pages (search yourself) which are under the category related to Indian constitution or administration. Reservation is a political issue in India, and definitely Wikipedia, at least this very page is not a place to discuss or mention it. You can start a page where you can write about reservation and Indian casts related issues.

Above all if you follow either of the logic, ethical or constitutional; constitutionally it is crime to address someone lower cast in INDIA Or promote cast based discrimination. Ethically, Meenas are human being and have their constitutional and social rights. I suggest you to know bit more about Meenas from northern part of Rajasthan and their counterpart from southern part.

This particular article is referenced, and up here more than FOUR years now. Most the referenced books are available to read over Google book. Editors have put all their known facts and information related to Meena community(different from koli community) backed by references. It is upto the reader, who has to build their opinion and understanding based on the presented facts. In this article, there are paragraphs where the fact of degrading Meenas social status is also highlighted. In fact, the opening paragraph of the article mentions about Meenas TRIBAL status. So what is the new you want to say here?

Regarding Meenas “Kshatriya” status. Historically they were rulers (read about Amber-Jaipur and Northern part of Rajasthan plus Bundi). Their main occupation was serving in the army and agriculture. Article also mentions about limited number of Meenas, who ever been involved in criminal activity. Try to read/know about JAGAs in Rajasthan, who hereditarily keeps the genealogical records of Meenas and Rajputs. Does any other cast in Rajasthans has Jaga? Jagas keep Meenas genealogical records because of their past history of being rulers. It is never late to learn good lessons in life.

If you have rational thinking, this article talks about all the aspect of Meenas history, including their different social status in certain part of Rajasthan. Why their status has been constantly changing over years? What was their situation when India was under British occupation? How British use to see Meenas then? and Problems they faced to control Meenas and rising Meena battalion.

This Meenas wiki page was created on 4 February 2004, since then it has been read, edited and enhanced by many Wikipedia editors. During the recent Meena and Gujjar conflicts, many news papers /blogs/TV channels have reference and quoted text from this very article.

Hope this make some sense to you, I am committed to help and support in building a balance understanding towards this article and following Wikipedia philosophy.

78.105.247.223 (talk) 22:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Jagas keep record of Ahirs (Yadav today) also, but, have you seen the page Yadav, they too are shown as to be a lower caste, their kingdoms ancient and modern political status is undermined by the jealous writers and unfortunately, Wikipedia rely only on reliable literary sources. What i can say, by experience on wiki is that, your complete narration or talk will be categorized as original research and discarded. However, be sure, and for updation of your knowledge, Meenas in no part of land are categorized as to belong to General or High caste category. They are in most of the cases ST and few are OBC, as all the agricultural castes are. Good Luck. Best Wishes, If Admins consider your view point.--Mahensingha 18:20, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with mahensingha opinion.Do not try to mislead our reader by writing wrong facts Jalodiya (talk) 05:44, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I have added some new content in this page ,which is taken from the book 📚 'MINA:THE RULING TRIBE OF INDIA'.This book is written by Mr. S.H.M RIZVI.The facts which are written by mr.rizvi and examined duly by many of the writers.For ex-Ali,hashim amir the writer of 'The meos of mewat'.oxford,Delhi,1970. Jalodiya (talk) 12:38, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I have also provide the reliable link and sources to prove that the content edit by me is absoulutely correct Jalodiya (talk) 12:41, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I think mahensingha you might belongs to yadav community that's why you constantly editing this page to make sure that your community belongs to Kshatriyas Varna whereas other community like gujjar,jats,tyagi,and meenas belongs to lower caste. This very bad that people like u edit any page without having any specific knowledge about that topic,so that your caste is the best caste and rest are stupid that they belongs to different community or caste.please provide us valid facts before editing this page,else there is no meaning to have a talk with you on this topic Jalodiya (talk) 15:43, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

User Ashishmeena, please don't remove tags and edits without discussion

Please discuss on the discussion page before undoing edits and tags. This article has severe shortcomings with regard to its acccuracy as per wikipedia standards.

This is an encyclopedia not some caste promotion website. Please follow the rules.--Satyashodak (talk) 14:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Editor 143.117.38.118 is suppressing important facts and undoing edits without discussion

Editor 143.117.38.118 is trying suppress important facts about the Meena community. He is requested to present exact reference from the government records or other citable works which acknowledge Khsatriya status of meenas. He is also requested to explain with the help of credible citations why Meenas are listed as a Scheduled Tribe if they are regarded 'Kshatriyas' or equivalent to Rajputs by other communities . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satyashodak (talk • contribs) 14:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Meena is a well-known Scheduled Tribe. Please don't mislead the readers by suppressing this fact

This article does not have any inline citations that prove what the author is asserting. A deliberate effort has been made to mislead the readers into believing that Meenas are an upper caste. Meenas are listed as a Scheduled Tribe because they are considered to be socially very low. The writer has taken great pains to suppress this fact but has still done the job poorly.

Meenas are regarded to be aboriginals and face caste based discrimination. This is the reason they enjoy the reservations provided by Indian govenrment to the lower castes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satyashodak (talk • contribs) 02:21, November 13, 2008

For User:Satyashodak

Better discuss, than editing. I am ready to provide all citation on the arguments. However, if I will follow this parameter of citation, I wonder, how many Indian cast related pages will go-off? Especially from Rajasthan. Ashishmeena (talk) 14:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Satyashodak yes we can discuss

So please do not edit this article before resolving the issues. You are right this article is not cast promotion and cast haterate. May be it’s a time to enhance scope of the article. The article talks about ups and downs of Meenas in historical context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashishmeena (talk • contribs) 14:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Request to remove one controversial section

{{editprotected}}

Section 'Scheduled tribe status in India after ndependence’

This section was added by User:Satyashodak and it is a part of controversy. The below section on this talk page was written for clarification. However, he or anyone else has not replied so far and I can wait. But in the mean time, I request administrators to remove the section 'Scheduled tribe status in India after ndependence’ from the main article “Meenas”. Even there is spelling mistake "(I)ndependence". However, page should remain in edit protected mode till it expires. Ashishmeena (talk) 20:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. Since no one disagreed with the request, I went ahead and removed the section. --Elonka 07:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Elonka, I think the following note needed to be put here in response to the deletion you made:

I see you have removed the section about the Scheduled Tribe status of Meenas in India. Please note that "Scheduled Tribe" is a constitutional term for socially undermined groups. The term is kosher in public discourse and is not derogotary. Meenas are the most widely known Scheduled Tribe of Rajasthan. Not to allow this fact to be documented in a clear manner in the wikipedia article makes it totally inauthentic with no reflection of the real world. If you want this article to have any semblance of crediblity , you need to restore that section (with spelling corrections, of course). All the references from reliable sources were provided there

--Satyashodak (talk) 22:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. To be clear, I have no preference what goes into the article either way. As an administrator, I respond to maintenance requests, such as the one above. If someone makes a request, and no one disagrees with that request after a few days, I will make the change. What is your request? --Elonka 22:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Elonka and Satyashodak,

The user Satyashodak, seems to have very deep interest in calling Meenas as lowest cast. Which is not true, Meenas eat and drink with all upper cast people like Brahmins and Rajputs etc; they attend each other marriages and other cultural occasion; All Meenas marriages, child naming etc. are performed by a Hindu priest. Brahmins eat food (Bharman Bhoj) on special occasions at Meenas home. Meenas are allowed to go any Hindu temple. May be Satyashodak comes from some remote area, where tribal Meenas are treated differently. BUT this article is about Meenas in general and nothing to do with Indian constitution and their local social status. Try to look on overall Meenas status; If we follow Satyaashok arguments, all the Indians who are living in WESTERN world should be deliberately mentioned PAKI, uncivilised and uncultured. As in West, Indian suffers with lower grade citizen status and never treated as locals in society. In past 4 years, I have not seen anybody making such discriminating and deliberating efforts to state Meenas as lower cast and have problems with that. Why only Stayashodak?

BEWARE : Admin and Elonka

Please have a look on Stayaashodak contribution page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Satyashodak He is intentionally and deliberately behind Meenas article and there is no other sign of his any other article contribution.

78.105.247.223 (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Kindly provide references and citations rather than personal attacks. Please rewrite this article with honesty and objectivity. This is an encyclopedia. I have already said that I am not going to edit this article even if the edit protection is removed. I have nothing against Meena community but was rather shocked to the see misrepresentation and obfuscation that has been presented in the article. Using ad hominem attacks further weakens your claim of being a neutral scholar. So if I were you, I would avoid them and get busy with looking for credible references. Thanks

--Satyashodak (talk) 00:17, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear Stayaashodak,

So you are suggesting that this article is not having references? Or after going through 20+ cited articles you still feel there should be more citation for 3000 word article? Or maybe you want to see every world of this particular article should have citation?

Well the latest you can read if cannot read all is,

“Kapur, Nandini Sinha (May 2008). Reconstructing Identities and Situating Themselves in History : A Note on the Meenas of Jaipur Region.”

Dr. Nandini Sinha Kapur is a Reader in History in PGDAV College of Delhi University. In her research especially in the above one, she has recorded all the issues related to Meenas identity in Rajasthan (mainly Jaipur region) and their Ups and Downs. She has also cited the supporting evidences.

Over this particular Meenas page we are talking about 'History of Meenas' not the contemporary issues. The core of the article is similar to any other wiki articles on Bharmins, Rajputs etc. Wikipedia is not a News bulletin dashboard.

Hope this helps you.

78.105.247.223 (talk) 11:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The citations in this article appear without the proper context. What is the most dubious is the claim of being a kshatriya. If you believe that Meenas were ever regarded as Kshatriyas in Indian history and socio-polity, kindly provide references from reliable sources on the following points:

1) Which of the following lineages Meenas belonged to?

Suryavanshi
Chandravanshi
Agnivanshi

Unless Meenas belonged to one of the above lineages , their claim of being kshatriya does not withstand any textual scrutiny.

2) Provide a reference from a reliable textual source that proves that Meenas were regarded as a 'twice born caste'.

3) If Meenas were regarded as kshatriyas, provide a credible explanation with he help of textual sources as to why no Rajput ever inter-married with Meenas??? Mr. THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS n KNOWN TO EVERYBODY THAT WHY PURE KSHATRIYA RACES GURJARAS,MEENAS,MARATHAS NEVER MARRIES RAJPUTS because Though the word "Rajput" is supposed to be a corrupted form of the Sanskrit word 'Raajaputra' which means a "scion of the royal blood" and that the word occurs in the Puranas and also in the Harshcharita of Bana, Mahajan is honest enough to accept that the word, in earlier times and in some areas even now, had an disrespectful meaning. The Vedic Rajas & old Kshatriyas(tribals),not satisfied with their married wives,had frequently children by their female slaves,who although not legitimate successors to the throne,these illegitimate children were styled Rajpoots,or the children of Rajas^[1]"The word "Rajput" is used in certain parts of Rajasthan to denote the illegitimate sons of a Kshatriya chief or Zamidar." [Mahajan: 1972: 550 ff.] The conclusion is obvious that they were not considered by the original residents^[2]to be respectable, to start with. This is because "Raaja" means royal but "Raj" means semen. The progeny of mixed marriages is even now called by that name in some parts. The condition of woman was deteriorating. The question of women education was unthinkable. Obscene Art flourished during Rajput age. The originality of the ancient times was lost and the ancient culture degenerated. The country fell into the hands of Rajput barons, soon to be followed by the Mohammedan invaders who completed the work of annihilation. The combined army of Kachwaha Rajputs and Mughals defeated the powerful Meena Kings of Rajasthan by annihilating them.^[3] Rajput age was a Dark Age for masses of India.^[4]

4)Provide an clear explanation as to why Meenas got listed as part of the Scheduled Tribe category after the independence of India. Please do not suppress this fact as Meenas are pehaps the most well-known Scheduled Tribe of Rajasthan. If you do not highlight this fact in the wikipedia article, it is not authentic anymore.--Satyashodak (talk) 13:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC) authentic is —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigbrothersorder (talk • contribs) 04:22, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

IT is CLEARLY written in UNIVERSITY BOOKS..that Meenas(Mina/Matsya/Mena/Minout) is a aboriginal community means a tribal community.The Meena kingdom was known as Matsya kingdom in sanskrit was mentioned in the RIG VEDA.They decent from Lord Matsya/Meen or Meenesh and worships Lord Shiva.Also Matsya purana is the oldest puranas of India.The tribals religion is Aadim Dharma. Bhils and Minas are the oldest tribes of Rajasthan(India) since INDUS CIVILIZATION.Till 1400BC they ruled the land which is now called rajasthan,they were humbeled by the adventurous aryans but regained control and lived peacefully. Due to their war like characteristics they were Bhils and Minas were included in Agnivanshi kshatriyas(written in University book Rajasthan ka itihas),They were respected by Hunas,Kusans etc. Bhils and minas are poor agriculturist people of rajasthan.Only 2%of the mina tribe are graduate so far.According to news published in THE TIMES OF INDIA news paper dated 31august2010 even after 17years only 7%seats are filled of OBC(other backward classes of India) out of 27%seats reservation;Moreover only 2% of ST/SC are in class 1 jobs.In India for Equality there is a strong need of OBC/SC/ST reservation in billion dollor Corporate world and Private Sector.Then only the deprived and backward classes(more than 70%people/majority of poor people) will be able to compete higher and forward classes.There is a strong need of extending reservation policy in all sphers and jobs for equality among our people.Being a good human let us try for the wellbeing of crores of People..Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigbrothersorder (talk • contribs) 04:59, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Article needs be kept objective and factually acurate

I won't edit this article anymore and regret if somebody's pride has been hurt unwittingly. The popular perception and documented citabale government records all indicate a grossly socially undermined status of Meenas when compared to other tribes. Otherwise, they would not be classified as a Scheduled Tribe by the government.

With regard to Kshatriya status, the editors should provide some expanation of the fact as to why no Rajput tribe ever intermarried with Meenas.

Being a tribal ruling class was not enough to earn "kshatriya" status. The cast had to be a twice-born before it earned that status. Even Jats can't be classified "kshatriya".

If Meenas are both classified as Scheduled Tribe and General Category, then the editor can state both the facts with the help of citable works, rather than suppressing or highlighting any one of them.

It is important that wikipedia articles stay objective and are not used as means of caste based propaganda. Meenas are the most widely known Scheduled Tribe of Rajasthan. If the fact is suppressed or glossed over, then the article is not factual or objective anymore. This artcile would be no more guilty of any constitutional impropriety than constitution of India itself is so in having placed Meenas in Scheduled Tribe category. It is an academic truth. This article obviously needs a lot of work to make it objective but I will not edit this article anymore.--Satyashodak (talk) 16:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Please do not archive issue that are still unresolved

Please do not archive the controversial issues. That won't make them go away.--Satyashodak (talk) 02:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Nothing has "gone away". It is just that some of the older messages have been moved to another page. Everything can still be read here, at /Archive 1. Some of these messages were three or four years old, so there was no reason to keep them on the "live" page. If you think that anything is still unresolved, simply start a new thread. You can also provide a link to the older discussions from here. --Elonka 02:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for this note. I understand now--Satyashodak (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

SCHEDULED TRIBE status of Meenas

The 67.7 million people belonging to "Scheduled Tribes" in India are generally considered to be 'Adivasis', literally meaning 'indigenous people' or 'original inhabitants', though the term 'Scheduled Tribes'

I see you have removed the section about the Scheduled Tribe status of Meenas in India. Please note that "Scheduled Tribe" is a constitutional term for socially undermined groups. The term is kosher in public discourse and is not derogotary. Meenas are the most widely known Scheduled Tribe of Rajasthan. Not to allow this fact to be documented in a clear manner in the wikipedia article makes it totally inauthentic with no reflection of the real world. If you want this article to have any semblance of crediblity , you need to restore that section (with spelling corrections, of course). All the references from reliable sources were provided there.--Satyashodak (talk) 19:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Satyashodak, thank you for your message. Please note that I did not remove anything. I just moved things. I have placed the threads on this page in date order. The oldest are now at the top, the newest at the bottom. A very few threads that were very very old, have been moved to /Archive 1. Everything else is still in place. Did I miss anything? --Elonka 20:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The 67.7 million people belonging to "Scheduled Tribes" in India are generally considered to be 'Adivasis', literally meaning 'indigenous people' or 'original inhabitants', though the term 'Scheduled Tribes' (STs) is not coterminous with the term 'Adivasis'. PLEASE note THATScheduled Tribes is an administrative term used for purposes of 'administering' certain specific constitutional privileges, protection and benefits for specific sections of peoples considered historically disadvantaged and 'backward'

All tribal communities are not alike. They are products of different historical and social conditions. They belong to four different language families, and several different racial stocks and religious moulds. They have kept themselves apart from feudal states and brahminical hierarchies for thousands of years.

In the Indian epics such as Ramayana, Mahabharata and Puranas (folklores) there are many references to interactions and wars between the forest or hill tribes and the Hindus. Endemic hunger and food insecurity were rampant especially in tribal dominated areas of Rajasthan. In October 2005, the New Delhi-based Centre for Environment and Food Security (CEFS) in its survey report revealed that 99 per cent of Adivasi households had lived with one or another level of endemic hunger and food insecurity throughout 2004 in the tribal dominated areas under Udaipur and Dungarpur districts.[39]

According to reports, about 80 persons belonging to the tribes had allegedly died of starvation and malnutrition in Baran district in September 2005. They had been allegedly deprived of employment and basic amenities including proper medical facilities.[40] However, a Supreme Court fact-finding committee had concluded that the deaths took place due to lack of proper health service in the area.[41]

Even in the 21st century, students and professionals belonging to tribals and Sudra communities are victimized by the Manuwadi teachers, bureaucrats, ministers, judges, doctors, and all other professionals. Brahmin, Shatriya, and Vaishya castes make up 15% of the population, yet claim about 65% of the upper-level jobs. In the first-ever statistical analysis of its kind, a survey of the social profile of more than 300 senior journalists at 37 Hindi and English language newspapers and TV studios found that "Hindu upper-caste men"— who form 8% of the country's population—hold 71% of the top jobs in the "national media." Hence, the media is biased and does not report the truth of suffering and discrimination by those in the scheduled castes and tribes. When SCs/STs asked members of the media to lodge a formal complaint, they said that "if we do that, our whole career will be finished by these professors who treat us worse than animals." Such is the terror of these Manuwadi professors. The SC/ST students prefer to swallow these insults and suffer silently Inequity has existed for thousands of years for the SCs/STs and has included educational discrimination, housing segregation, physical harassment and abuse, economic suppression and disenfranchisement, discrimination in medical care, religious discrimination, and violence (e.g., torture, murder,etc). Despite several Indian laws enacted for the protection and empowerment of the SCs/STs, Indian society still treats them as outcasts. The Indian government has passed laws to protect the Sudras, but failed to promote democratic principles, secular thinking, and progressive ethos. For instance, despite a constitutional mandate, India has repeatedly failed to fulfill the reservation quota for SCs/STs in faculty positions (saying suitable candidates are not available).

Recently, the Indian government created a committee—headed by Prof. S. K. Thorat—to investigate discrimination in the All India Institute of Medical Science (AIIMS), Delhi. The committee found widespread discrimination, harassment, torture, and abuse against SC/ST students and professionals, including examination assessment (theory and practical papers), consultation and interaction, discrimination in teaching, segregation in residential hostels, mess and dining discrimination, social isolation in cultural and sports events, ragging, anti-quota agitation, and hiring and promotion discrimination.

The AIIMS is a 100% grant-in-aid institution of the Indian government and should comply with all rules, regulations, and directives of the government to provide constitutional guarantees to the SCs/STs. According to the Thorat committee report, more than two-thirds of SC/ST students did not receive adequate support from teachers, which resulted in poor performance and psychological problems. A student at the AIIMS lost his eye due to ragging by upper-caste students, but had no forum in which to complain. There is no student representation for the Sudras.

In 2000,regarding iit's, the PDK published a book based on a study it did on the anti-Dalit attitude in the institute. The study noted that there were several departments at the institute where even after 41 years, “not a single Dalit student has been selected for doing Ph.D or has successfully completed his degree”. The study also stated that, “almost all M.Tech and ms Students in IIT were Brahmins.” The PDK is now demanding that the institute come out with a white paper providing details of the total number of Dalit students who have completed postgraduate and doctoral programmes. “The National Commission for SC/ST should closely monitor if reservation policy for Dalits is being strictly followed in student admissions,” says Viduthalai Rajendran, PDK general secretary

Private sector should reserve jobs for SC, ST,OBC.

Chandigarh, Feb 4 (PTI) Union Minister for Social Justice and Empowerment Meira Kumar today asked private sector to initiate efforts for reserving jobs for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes youth as part of its Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR).

"The government and the public sector provide reservation in jobs for SC and ST. But this kind of protection is absent in the private sector," Kumar said while addressing a programme on CSR organised by CII.

The caste system contains both social oppression and classexploitation. The dalits suffer from both types of exploitation in the worst form. 86.25 per cent of the scheduled caste households are landless and 49 per cent of the scheduled castes in the rural areas are agricultural workers. The dalits are subject to untouchability and other forms of discrimination despite these being declared unlawful. According to the 2001 census, scheduled castes comprise 16.2 per cent of the total population of India, that is, they number over 17 crore the problem of alienation of tribal lands. According to the 2007-08 Annual Report of the Ministry of Rural Development, a total of 2,084 cases of land alienation were filed in the Courts involving an area of 6,615 acres by 2007. Dalits and tribals remained vulnerable to discrimination and physical violence. Rajasthan was one among the worst states for recorded violence against Dalits during 2007 The failure to appoint sufficient number of judges contributed to increase in the number of backlog cases. There were 218,219 cases pending before the Rajasthan High Court and 11,80,334 cases pending before the District and Subordinate Courts as of 1 July 2008. Prison conditions also remained poor III. Violations of the rights of indigenous/ST peoples a. Atrocities The NCRB recorded 1,110 incidents of crime against Scheduled Tribes in 2007. These included 17 cases of killing, 25 cases registered under SC/ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989, among others.9

b. Land rights The state government failed to address the problem of alienation of tribal lands. According to the 2007-08 Annual Report of the Ministry of Rural Development, a total of 2,084 cases of land alienation were filed in the Courts involving an area of 6,615 acres by 2007. 1,257 cases were disposed of by the Courts of which 187 cases involving 587 acres were decided in favour of the tribals, while 53 cases were rejected. Another 1,067 cases were pending in courts by the end of 2007.11 The state government failed to properly implement the Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional [[Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act, 2006.]] In tribal-dominated Udaipur district, the district administration allegedly issued a misleading circular which stated that the cut-off year for eligibility given in the Act was 1980 instead of 2005. This was allegedly intentionally done to deprive the tribals from their rights under the [[Forest Rights Act]]. On 21 September 2008, several tribals were injured and hospitalized after they were attacked by non-tribals at Jhala Pipla village under Jhadol tehsil in Udaipur district. The tribals were targeted after they filed their claims for land rights under the Forest Rights Act. Two of the tribals identified as Vera and Naro, sustained injuries in the attack.12

HISTORY OF STs The epic of Mahabharata refers to the death of Krishna at the hands of a Bhil Jaratha. In the ancient scriptures, considered to be sacred by the upper castes, various terms are used depicting Adivasis as almost non-humans. The epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata, the Puranas, Samhitas and other so-called 'sacred books' refer to Adivasis as Rakshasa (demons), Vanara (monkeys), Jambuvan (boar men), Naga (serpents), Bhusundi Kaka (crow), Garuda (King of Eagles) etc. In medieval India, they were called derogatorily as Kolla, Villa, Kirata, Nishada, and those who surrendered or were subjugated were termed as Dasa (slave) and those who refused to accept the bondage of slavery were termed as Dasyu (a hostile robber).

Ekalavya, one of their archers was so skillful that the hero of the Aryans, Arjuna, could not stand before him. But they assaulted him, cutting his thumb and destroying his ability to fight - and then fashioned a story in which he accepted Drona as his Guru and surrendered his thumb as an offering to the master! The renowned writer Maheshwata Devi points out that Adivasis predated Hinduism and Aryanism, that Shiva was not an Aryan god and that in the 8th century, the tribal forest goddess or harvest goddess was absorbed and adapted as Siva's wife. Goddess Kali, the goddess of hunters, has definitely had a tribal origin.

The invasion of Adivasi territories, which for the most part commenced during the colonial period, intensified in the post-colonial period. Most of the Adivasi territories were claimed by the state. Over 10 million Adivasis have been displaced to make way for development projects such as dams, mining, industries, roads, protected areas etc. Though most of the dams (over 3000) are located in Adivasi areas, only 19.9% (1980-81) of Adivasi land holdings are irrigated as compared to 45.9% of all holdings of the general population. India produces as many as 52 principal, 3 fuel, 11 metallic, 38 non-metallic and a number of minor minerals.

Of these 45 major minerals (coal, iron ore, magnetite, manganese, bauxite, graphite, limestone, dolomite, uranium etc) are found in Adivasi areas contributing some 56% of the national total mineral earnings in terms of value. Of the 4,175 working mines reported by the Indian Bureau of Mines in 1991-92, approximately 3500 could be assumed to be in Adivasi areas. Income to the government from forests rose from Rs.5.6 million in 1869-70 to more than Rs.13 billions in the 1970s. The bulk of the nation's productive wealth lay in the Adivasi territories. Yet the Adivasi has been driven out, marginalised and robbed of dignity by the very process of 'national development'.

The systematic opening up of tribal territories, the development projects and the 'tribal development projects' make them conducive for waves of immigrants. In the rich mineral belt of Jharkhand, the Adivasi population has dropped from around 60% in 1911 to 27.67% in 1991. These developments have in turn driven out vast numbers of Adivasis to eke out a living in the urban areas and in far-flung places in slums. According to a rough estimate, there are more than 40,000 tribal domestic working women in Delhi alone!

Denial of justice to dalits (scheduled castes) and scheduled tribes and violence directed at them continues in India today despite official policies and declarations to the contrary. Considerable physical violence is inflicted on members of these deprived and marginalised communities as substantiated by official reports. Policing, far from being ‘the professional imposition of a coherent moral consensus on society’ is an intensely political activity with policemen often facilitating and participating in the violence not just against these two communities but against minorities, other weaker sections and women “The quota students face discrimination everywhere, starting from the canteens, laboratories and classes. Such limited numbers in a class would make the students even more vulnerable as they are most often viewed as dumb heads who have made it to IITs because of the quotas,” says Narendra Kumar, general secretary of the SC/ST Welfare Union at IIT Delhi. There is a very very Strong need of OBC/SC/ST reservation in billion dollor corporate world and billion dollor private sector,then only the backward castes can compete with forward castes,Being a good human let us try for the wellbeing of 70% People..Thanks.

ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF RESERVATION IN BILLION DOLLOR PRIVATE SECTORS(CORPORATE WORLD):2011-2012.

If forward castes people really love backward classes(obc/sc/st)80 crore people of India..then the reservation should be given immediately in private sectors and corporate world.

1. More than a thousand years of discrimination has laid barren groups of people without education, hygienic and healthy living. People who were not given education could now sense a freedom that could come up to them. But then, they are not ready for the new responsibilities. At the dawn of independence and even before, forward looking leaders could see that the country could not progress unless the masses consisting primarily of these people could progress. Even today, the growing GDP has really no impact on the people who are going hungry to bed every night.

2. If 60 years of reservation could be so difficult to withstand and could make life miserable for the so-called forward classes, imagine what 1000 years of subversion with absolutely no choice and absolutely no voice, would have done to a human race.

3. The government at the time of independence could bring in only reservations on the education front and in a majority of the government offices. This does not have any significance beyond certain levels in government offices, military and other areas of work. Similarly, it does not have any significance when it comes to private industry which is the largest employer today. Contrast this with the affirmative action in other countries, say UK for instance. The population racial spread should match with the industry spread. That is to say, if the race is occupying 30% of the population, the same set or about the same percentage of people should be in every industry such as banking, media, etc., at all levels of management. If a company, be it private or public, if for any reason or not finding themselves in line with this concept will have to pay an additional tax to the government. Please see ethnic quotas in the UK's affirmative action bill.

4. It has never been possible for India to bring any standard reservation policy with a clear cut end marked out. This is so because, people who are anti to reservations and who occupy the top positions in the hierarchy are not allowing census to be taken on a caste basis. Secondly, data pertaining to caste wise hierarchical data is not specifically made available for public consumption. The current census looks forward to make good this lacuna at last.

5. Reservations can end only when the population map of the castes match with the caste wise industry map. That is if a specific group forms 12% of the population, then they should be occupying more or less the same percentage in, say, banks at all levels, in top management map, middle management map and in lower levels as well. Only then, it can be said that equality has reached. Instead if you take media today, be it government or otherwise, one would only find the upper class domination and naturally, no other idea gets spread as well.

6.There is a general perception that the quality of education is compromised when reservations are in place. But there are many instances where it has been disproved. In India, particularly, there has been mushrooming of education institutions across the country. Where there were only 2000 seats in a state (Tamil Nadu Engineering in 1970s), now offers more than 100,000 seats for similar programs. Even with reservations, the number of seats for forward caste students and for others have increased by more than 50 times. But still, upper castes remark of insufficiency of seats to the upper castes! This is happening all over the country. The same is the case with government jobs.

7.Poor people from "forward castes" do not have any social or economical advantage over rich people from backward caste. Counter Point: Reservation is a tool to improve representation. It is not a poverty alleviation program.

8.Providing quotas on the basis of an accident of birth and not on the basis of competitive merit will be discriminatory to talented students, and weaken the country's competitive edge. Counter Point: Merit is an abstract notion and a social construct.

9.This policy of the government has already caused increase in brain drain and may aggravate further. Under graduates and graduates will start moving to foreign universities for higher education. Counter Point: Upper caste Indians were well known for the immigration pattern even before the dusk of the British Raj. Celebration of golden jubilee of IIT was celebrated in San Jose, California not because the they couldn't make it to the IIT but only after there graduation. In contrast Tamil diaspora to nations like Malaysia and Singapore at the end of the Slave trade was made possible due to the suppression of this population as lower caste and their look for greener pastures.

Therefore, reservations are a political necessity in India because vast influential sections of voting population see reservations as beneficial to themselves. All governments have supported maintaining and/or increasing reservations. Since there is a wide spread support to reservations, even if the governments are not sincere about the purpose of the reservations, they make it appear as if they are for reservations. And this has been happening in this country resulting in a half-hearted implementation of reservations that has not produced any worthwhile results even after 60 years of implementation.

Reservations are legal and binding. As shown by Gujjar agitations (Rajasthan, 2007–2008), increasing reservations is also essential for peacekeeping in India.

Quality of education and quality of government service has fallen not because of reservations but because weak leadership and management capability and a systemic failure of government machinery which does not know how to manage its own staff. A bad policy in the initial years when the government instead of being a servant of the public turned to be the biggest employer in the country, resulting in gross under employment and mismanagement. That weakened the system and therefore, service quality.

One of the biggest difference of affirmative actions in the west and that of the Indian Government is that the people who suppressed the others never acknowledged the same. In the west, whites acknowledged that they are subjecting the blacks to mistreatment and slavery and that this has resulted in a situation that where the growth of blacks have been affected. In India, till today, never have the leaders of the forward castes ever expressed any apology for 2500 years of suppression. Nor have they expressed that these suppressed castes should be brought up for the growth of the country. Even if any one makes such a statement, it is more a lip service than real concern. There has never been a Lincoln in India who would take guns against his own race or caste to fight for the freedom of the oppressed.

Affirmative Action schemes are in place in many countries including USA, South Africa, Malaysia, Brazil etc. It was researched in Harvard University that Affirmative Action programmes are beneficial to the under-privileged.The studies said that Blacks who enter elite institutions with lower test scores and grades than those of whites achieve notable success after graduation. They earn advanced degrees at rates identical to those of their white classmates. They are even slightly more likely than whites from the same institutions to obtain professional degrees in law, business and medicine. They become more active than their white classmates in civic and community activities.

Affirmative Action has helped many - if not everyone from under-privileged and/or under-represented communities to grow and occupy top positions in the world's leading industries. (See the Section on Tamil Nadu) Reservation in education is not THE solution, it is just one of the many solutions. Reservations is a means to increase representation of hitherto under-represented caste groups and thereby improve diversity on campus. Reservations are needed to provide social justice to the most marginalized and underprivileged is our duty and their human right. Reservation will really help these marginalized people to lead successful lives, thus eliminating caste-based discrimination which is still widely prevalent in India especially in the rural areas. (about 70% of Indian population stays in Villages)

Anti-reservationists have made a gross mix-up between brain-drain and reservation. Brain-drain is mainly attributed to the "want" to become more rich very fast. Even if we assume that reservation could be a fraction of the cause, one must understand that brain-drain is a concept which is meaningless without nationalism, which is separatism from humankind as a whole. If people leave the country whining about reservation, they don't have enough nationalism and brain-drain does not apply to them.

There are concerns among anti-reservationists about meritrocracy and aptly so. But meritrocracy is meaningless without equality. First all people must be brought to the same level, whether it elevates a section or delevels another, regardless of merit. After that, we can talk about merit. Forward pople have never known to go backward due to reservations or lack of "meritrocracy". Reservations have only slowed down the process of "Forward becoming more richer and backward becoming more poorer". In China, people are equal by birth. In Japan, everyone is highly qualified, so a qualified man finishes his work fast and comes for labour work for which one gets paid more. So the forward people must be at least happy with the fact that they are white-collared throughout their life.

The current idea of meritocracy is highly indignant. Merit today is scoring high marks in an examination and education system that is best described, insipid. Educationists have grown to see that one cannot train or educate every one the same way. And every education system should find out what is the person good at and educate him accordingly. A sweeping education system which does not differentiate the requirement of an artist and that of an engineer cannot be called the right education. Meritocracy based on such an education system cannot be called the ultimate guide to identifying the good, bad and the ugly.

Though its true that poverty exists among the people of the so-called higher caste too,but their poverty is only economic poverty,and still they are at par with society.Whereas people from the so-called backward caste are not only economically poor but also socially backwards.Still untouchability and caste based discrimination is rampant in India,especially is Villages.And 60% of India is rural based.

1000yrs ago, castes were created and continued till now. And due to this people from backward castes were ill treated and exploited to the point of untouchability which still exists now. They were not allowed inside educational institutions nor inside the places of worship(Temples).They were forcibly cut off from mainstream of the society.Various restrictions were imposed on them and were deemed as lower caste and subhuman.For further reference,take a look at Caste system in India

To understand this better take a hypothetical example of a family-: If a person is cruelly ill-treated and badly exploited and rendered untouchable,then that person obviously lags behind in the race of success and better life style,as he was never allowed to get education nor was he allowed to enter the temple,nor allowed to use the same well for water,and many such restrictions imposed on him,which resulted in his being cut off from the main section of the society.The same was imposed on his family too.Due to such restrictions and oppression,he wouldn't be able to give a better life to his children.Obviously he would fail to do so because if he spent all his lifetime toiling hard for other people of so-called higher section of the society for negligible wages and due to the oppression had to be trodden under huge debt.So his children and grandchildren faced the same discrimination by the society and this cycle continues for many generations of that family.Continuous discrimination and ill treatment to the generations of that family would generally make them backward and create a huge gap between them and the rest of the society.So obviously they would be poor and backward and cut off from the main section of the society,because they would have never known what is it to have a life with the kind of benefits that the remaining families of the society enjoy. Suddenly one day,this discrimination is made illegal by law but still it remained in the people's psyche.And then the current generation of that family are told that discrimination is made illegal now by law and that now they can compete with others but how could they compete as they have never been provided with the kind of facilities that their other competitors had.Obviously they would lag behind because they never had the same facility which others had,not only financially but also socially.So now the equality given to that family becomes meaningless,because they are struggling hard for just two square meals.So this equality meant nothing to them even to the brightest of their lot because they were busy struggling for basic amenities.

So they lag behind inspite of the equality given because a history of discrimination has made the family poor and cut off from the mainstream of the society.So they lag behind and could not make any use of the equality given to them by law.So for their benefit,special chances were given to bring the family into mainstream and some members of that family struggled hard and made only one of their son educated now.But still he could not go far as the social barriers still existed and alone he could not go far due to the poverty and social backwardness that still existed in his family. So to make sure that if some members of that family join the mainstream then maybe then they can be uplifted.So special provisions were made till maximum members of that family comes forward and join the mainstream of the society.And when maximum members join the mainstream of the society then that special provision would be cut off.

This hypothetical example explains the reason and cause for the special provisions for the people from the backward caste.The situation of the hpothetical family shown in the example is the reality of the of the so-called backward section of the society.To remove this discrimination,and to bring them at par with the rest of the society,special provisions for them is a necessity.’’’ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omkara1188 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Scheduled Tribe is not a pejorative

Here is the wikipedia article on Scheduled castes and scheduled tribes. It is not a derogotary term like "Paki" as is being alleged. It is part of the terms of reference of the Indian constitution.--Satyashodak (talk) 02:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The status of Zamindar Meena or Chokidar Meena

I strongly recommend to remove the status comparison of Zamindar Meena and Chowkidar Meena because both of these groups claim to be superior than others. It would be better to remove the line about Zamindar Meena highest status.

The Zamindar Meena are traditionally connected with farming profession, and most of them are economically good. According to the book "People of India" By Kumar Suresh Singh, among all Meena groups, Zamindar Meena enjoys the highest status. They claim a Kshatriya status equivalent to that of the Rajputs. In the local socio-ritual hierarchy they enjoy a clean cast status.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.161.11 (talk) 01:05, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Please follow the link below:-

Studies In Indian History: Rajasthan Through The Ages The Heritage Of ... Page 66,73
Thank God the page does not contain this, otherwise imagine the degree of discontentment.--Mahensingha 17:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Word meaning of Meen

As per my understanding the fish in sanskrit is matsa. In south indian languages meen is fish http://www.harappa.com/script/diction.html

So Meen might be pointing to something else. Tho quite confused. someone please throw some light

Daya Anjali (talk / contribs) 17:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

social change of bhils and meenas of rajasthan

With the onset of the policies of liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation by our country during the last decade and a half, the problems of dalits, adivasis, other backward castes and the working people as a whole have greatly aggravated. The drive to privatise the public sector has directly hit reservations for the SC/STs. The closure of thousands of mills and factories have rendered lakhs jobless and this has also hit dalits and other backward castes. The ban on recruitment to government and semi-government jobs that has been imposed in several states has also had an adverse effect. The growing commercialisation of education and health has kept innumerable people from both socially and economically backward sections out of these vital sectors eenas of rajasthan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.78.170 (talk) 03:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from 24.233.219.240, 4 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} This whole article is fake. It tells wrong things about origin of Rajputs.

24.233.219.240 (talk) 11:08, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

 Not done no requested edit. CTJF83 chat 16:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN IS RIGHT: Meenas are warrior tribe of Rajasthan ennough clue has been given by someone above so there is no need to further discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maheshjagarawal24 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Tagging NPOV and Cleanup

NPOV and Cleanup policy of wiki should be maintained throughout this article.I've tagged these tag many times.But some editor is too impatient to read wiki policy and removed tagging always without doing significant changes in article.I think we should make this article good according to wiki standards.Please avoid disruptive editing. I am tagging related template,please don't remove until article is significantly improved.Please avoid having biased view in any direction and have neutral point of view.--abhishek (talk) 13:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree this article has lot to clean.Its good if article does maintain neutrality.--202.174.93.214 (talk) 03:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

This article is one of the most well cited article among Indian communities. As far as it is biased or neutrality is concerned(as said by abhishekitm),Truth is never biased,understand. I wonder if we provide every line a citation..then how many old Indian articles will go blank.Oldestkshatriyas (talk) 04:22, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Would be good if you mention specifically the articles.If any article is not fulfilling criteria for POV or cleanup,it should be wikified or tagged.I would really appreciate if you spend more time on this article to make it better,rather than keep on removing tags.--Sandy (talk) 07:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

whether you are sandy or abhishek(which is only the same person)..there is lot of improvement is going on already..you are intentionally tagging again n again..if you are really worried about this article truth n cleanup..then do some efforts in adding truthful facts with citations rather than tagging n distorting the article.Oldestkshatriyas (talk) 14:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Well,if you have any doubt of my intentions look at my contribuations you are welcome.You may notice that I've edited 607 unique pages so far.Tagging a page doesn't make it bad.It just makes another editor notice that something should be improved.You may notice by yourself,there has been lot of improvements since I tagged,but surely not enough to remove the tag.Tagging is for betterment only,nothing personal.I changed my signature from abhishek to sandy later.--Sandy (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The edits of the last few hours are in many cases very problematic and are restoring content that was previously removed with good reason. It is quite likely that I will revert them while we discuss the issues, since many of them are heading towards the pov zone and the article is destabilised when that happens. - Sitush (talk) 14:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I've reverted the lot. It was reinstating old content that had been removed for what appear to be valid reasons. Two obvious examples are that Kapur is not a reliable source and nor is James Tod. I suggest that any reinstatement should be preceded by a discussion on, say, a paragraph-by-paragraph basis. There is far too much puffery in Indian caste articles and we have been tightening up on this for some time now. - Sitush (talk) 14:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I agree with sitush.Please have a paragraph basis discussion,so that a consensus is reached.Otherwise this restoring content/deleting content would go on,that's been happening for a long time on this article.--Sandy (talk) 15:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

What is the need of tagging..when we can improve the article without tagging..it is looking odd and very bad after tagging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldestkshatriyas (talk • contribs) 15:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Tagging highlights issues and causes the article to appear on various maintenance lists, which can sometimes attract new contributors who are willing to assist in improving it. Further, it alerts the reader to that fact that the article is in poor shape. The tags do not make an article bad: the article is bad in the first instance, due to its content etc. - Sitush (talk) 14:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

The sources mentioned in the reference list at serial No. 8 and 9 need to be verified. I searched all the snippets but found no match for the referred contents of the article. Thanx.--Mahensingha 14:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Recent restoration of content

I have just reverted what looks to be a big restoration of prior content that said in its edit summary that old Hindu texts are "valid", presumably as sources. Can we please discuss this issue. - Sitush (talk) 05:05, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

dear Sitush...Am just trying to Restore the imporatant historical events in sequence..Please dont revert again and again peoples edits..further cleanup doesnt mean..that you blank the article in half 14:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldestkshatriyas (talk • contribs)

But all of the content that you have added is invalid for one reason or another. This is why it was removed in the past. For example, James Tod is not a reliable source, nor are the Puranas and similar ancient texts. I would urge you to self-revert and continue discussing if you disagree with this. Perhaps go through it here section by section? - Sitush (talk) 18:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

If you click here then you will see short summaries for most of the removals and can step through them. - Sitush (talk) 18:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, cleanup does mean that you can "blank the article in half". If an editor cannot provide a reliable source for a claim that they wish to include, the information may be challenged and removed at any time, by any editor. JanetteDoe (talk) 21:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Stop User:Sitush

User:Sitush has some serious issues particularly with Meenas wiki page. This article has been evolved, corrected and referenced over last 7 years and User:Sitush has not provided any evidence to counter any of the facts presented in this article. Simple deleting some text does not make article valid or correct. Put some efforts and ready history books, gazette letter found on Google book related to Meenas past and history. All I can see from Sitush is biased and unfair text removal from this article. Someone need to stop user Sitush, and I also see his own page is full of complains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.185.136 (talk) 00:34, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

The problems are manifold but to address your immediate point, in many cases the so-called "facts" are not supported by reliable sources. You cannot just stick any old source on the end of a statement and then say that "it is a fact". If we did that then, for example, the views of David Irving on Adolf Hitler and The Holocaust would have a prominence here that is not accepted in the general academic community. Similarly, as an example in this article, you have just reinstated some content that is sourced to James Tod and to websites that were once hosted on tripod.com - no can do: they are not reliable. - Sitush (talk) 00:51, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I left your revert for > 24 hours & did some checking of my previous removals. I stand by them and it is clear that this article needs a lot of work even in its pruned state. I will try to do some of that work over the next few weeks but, as always, constructive contributions by anyone are welcomed. I would urge people to be aware of our policies etc for [[WP:RS|reliable sources[[, verifiability, [[WP:NPOV|neutrality, and balance. There are plenty of other issues, but those will do for starters. If needs must, the article will be stripped right back and rewritten. - Sitush (talk) 11:05, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

It is now confirmed that sitush is intentionally behind Meenas article..he is continuously hiding the well known Truth and distorting the article since 1 month. if varna is complex ha..then why did he failed in rajput article to hide varna???? because other editors there are not allowing him to edit there. We are here to represent the correct facts and truth and not the half hided distorted history. the article was best in december last year but he is continuously behind this article I dnt know what his actual interest in distorting this article.Oldestkshatriyas (talk) 11:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Oldestkshatriyas, you are now blocked for 48 hours for that personal attack. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

IT is 'SAD' to see that true people like oldestkshatriyas who were always supported truth and ground reality are harrassed and treated like this. User: Boing! said Zebedee has blocked a truth lover,shows that he is misusing his administrative powers. Have to Report highest Authority if need,about User:Boing! said Zebedee for misusing his powers against Indian editors here.(A prejudiced mindset).; Instead of bolcking Sitush for meenas,he has blocked an editor who has done much for this article. oldestkshatriyas was right in inserting the historian Col James Tod books "Annals and Antiquities of Rajast'han , the Central and Western Rajpoot States of India, 2 vols. London, Smith, Elder (1829, 1832); New Delhi, Munshiram Publishers, (2001), pp. 83-4. ISBN 8170691281". but sitush removed it unnecessarily. Sitush is thinking that he is the only authenticated user here to edit this article. He is just distorting and hiding the well known facts,without any knowledge of ancient Meena kshatriya community,leading the article to deterioration.

A true edit by Sitush in rajput article dated.....Revision as of 18:23, 17 January 2012 (edit) (undo) Sitush (talk | contribs) (give the whole story, please - [2] was being grossly misrepresented)

A Rajput (Hindi: राजपूत, from Sanskrit raja-putra, “son of a king”) is a member of one of the patrilineal clans of western, central, northern India and in some parts of Pakistan. They claim to be descendants of ruling warrior classes of North India,^[5] although this has to be tempered with knowledge that they have been considered to be the illegitimate children borne of relationships between the ruling rajas and their female slaves.^[1] They rose to prominence during the 6th to 12th centuries, and until the 20th century Rajputs ruled in the "overwhelming majority" of the princely states of Punjab, Kashmir, Rajasthan and Surashtra, where the largest number of princely states were found.^[6]............Was reverted within 48 hours because the editors there did not allow Sitush to add a truth.

As far as Meenas is concerned, he is considering himself as if he is the only editor and other People or editors are ZERO. User:Sitush has some serious issues particularly with Meenas wiki page. This article has been evolved, corrected and referenced over last 7 years and User:Sitush has not provided any evidence to counter any of the facts presented in this article. Simple deleting some text does not make article valid or correct.This attitude of sitush and his supporter is fully biased and disastrous for true history itself. It will be better if we restore the article as it was on 1January2012 without any considerable amount of citations. Regards to wiki.Omkara1188 (talk) 16:19, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

My block of Oldestkshatriyas was nothing to do with article content, but was because of the personal attacks made on another editor, above. And you, Omkara1188, are making personal attacks too in your accusations of bias by the same editor - if you repeat it, you will also find yourself unable to edit. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

The user Boing! said Zebedee is continuously distorting this Meena article with the help of some other user Sitush. By going through the previous versions of this article we found that last year version was most appropriate. These users must be bloked from editing this article.59.161.8.177 (talk) 06:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

A lot of this article is not sourced, and it needs to be - never mind you (whoever "we" is) telling us you have determined it is correct. You have been repeatedly removing the maintenance templates that identify that fact, without fixing the problem by providing sources. Reverting your removal of those tags (together with blocking you to counter your ongoing disruption) is all I have done - I have not made any content changes to the article. If you carry on the way you are going, you will simply keep being reverted and blocked. If you believe I am acting unjustly in my admin actions, the place to complain is at WP:ANI (once your current block expires) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:16, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Mr Sitush can u please tell us why you are not allowing the great historian James Tod for this article? He was unusually fond of rajputs ,not Meenas. hence we can add his books as ref..please reinsert this ref again,and be a part of truth/true historyOldestkshatriyas (talk) 14:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Because he is not reliable for anything relating to ethnographic matters, although just possibly he is ok for numismatic stuff. He was writing around 180 years ago, had no formal training, knew no Indian languages, accepted the (translated) word of whomever he listened to, had a clear agenda based on notions of Romantic Imperialism, and so on. The list is long but you might find a read of James Tod to be useful. - Sitush (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

TO ADMINISTRATORS PLEASE: It is now confirmed that sitush is intentionally behind Meenas article..he is continuously hiding the well known Truth and distorting the article since Beginning. In his eyes..Any reference is not valid which shows the Truth. Like Tod he is fond of rajputs and Now he had inserted Negative points for the most loyal community of India/Meenas... by indirectly calling them bandits or criminals. He messed the article. THE ARTICLE WAS BEST AND COMPLETELY TRUE AS ON 01/01/2012. IN WIKI as a contributor our mission is to present the real truth and real history of a community or race. Am asking the administrators..what is the need of this great n huge wikipedia...when it fails to show the TRUTH. sometimes reality has no references/having lack of references/as for this community. Still this original royal community has some authentic history in the form of James Tod Books like Annals and Antiquities of Rajast'han or the Central and Western Rajpoot States of India, 2 vols. London, Smith, Elder (1829, 1832); New Delhi, Munshiram Publishers, (2001), pp. 83-4. ISBN 8170691281. Same thing is written in Cultural heritage of Rajasthan, Manohara Prabhākara, Panchsheel Prakashan, 1972 - 138 pages. ; Chandarao, Ramnath. History of Chandavanshi Meenas. Then why he is continuously deleting reference of James books. Am asking the administrators..what is the need of this great n huge wikipedia...when it fails to show the TRUTH..and depicts a royal community as criminals..just because they lost wars by betrayal and became poor/fortuneless/underprivileged since centuries after kachwaha rajputs and akbar,hence came in criminal tribe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldestkshatriyas (talk • contribs) 14:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

To administartors..Mr Sitush is intentionally and deliberately behind Meenas article and there is no other sign of his any other article contribution except detiorating it since 1.5 years. how many books he wants..here is the list... Rizvi, S. H. M. (1987). Mina, The Ruling Tribe of Rajast.han (Socio-biological Appraisal). Delhi: B.R. Pub. Corp.

The Rigveda: A Historical Analysis, Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi 2000

Kanakasabhai, V. (1989). The Tamils Eighteen Hundred Years Ago. Asian Educational Services. ISBN 8120601505.

Rajasthan aajtak ISBN81-903622-6-7.

Somebody has to stop him and he should blocked him to edit Minas article anymore..this is the more than enough of his dominance unnecessarily. we will report to higher authorities if he continues to do so. All I can see from Sitush is biased and unfair text removal from this article. Someone need to stop user Sitush, and I also see his own page is full of complains. this user repeatedly removed James Tod books sources..and KEEPING READERS DEPRIVE OF REAL MEDIVAL HISTORY: The Meena King Raja Ralun Singh also known as Alan Singh Chanda of Khogong[44][72] kind-heartedly adopted a stranded Rajput mother and her child who sought refuge in his realm. Later, the Meena king sent the child, Dhola Rae, to Delhi to represent the Meena kingdom. The Rajput, in gratitude for these favours, returned with Rajput conspirers and massacred the weaponless Meenas on Diwali while performings rituals i.e. Pitra Trapan, it is customery in the Meenas to be weaponless at the time of PitraTrapan, "filling the reservoirs in which the Meenas bathed with their dead bodies" [Tod.II.281] and thus conquered Khogong.This act of Kachwaha Rajputs was termed as most coward and shameful in history of Rajasthan.

SOURCE:Annals and Atiquities of Rajasthan. Calcutta: Rupa. ISBN 81-7167-366-X.

99% contributors here are not happy with user sitush. Stop user sitush for this article and protect meenas article from him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omkara1188 (talk • contribs) 06:07, 8 December 2013 (UTC)