Elizabeth, Lady Thurles

For other uses, see Thurles (disambiguation).

Elizabeth Poyntz (1587–1673), known as Lady Thurles, was the mother of the Irish statesman and Royalist commander James Butler, 1st Duke of Ormonde.

Elizabeth Butler née Poyntz
Viscountess Thurles (courtesy title)
Born	1587 Iron Acton, Gloucestershire, England
Died	May 1673 Thurles, County Tipperary, Ireland
Spouse(s)	Thomas Butler, Viscount Thurles
Issue Detail	James, Richard, & others
Father	John Poyntz (died 1633)
Mother	Elizabeth Sydenham (died 1595)

Birth and origins

Elizabeth was born in 1587 at Iron Acton, Gloucestershire, England, the second daughter of Sir John Pointz and his second wife Elizabeth Sydenham. Her father was probably knighted in 1588,^[1] and surely before 1593.^[2] He was lord of the manor of Iron Acton. He died in 1633,^[2] apparently intestate and insolvent.^[3]

Elizabeth's mother was a daughter of Alexander Sydenham of Luxborough, Somerset.^[4] She died in childbed in 1595.^[5]

Family tree

Elizabeth Butler, Lady Thurles, with husband, parents, and other selected relatives.[lower-alpha 1] John of Kilcash d. 1570 Katherine MacCarthy Nicholas Poyntz d. 1585 Walter 11th Earl 1559 – 1633 'Beads' Helen Butler d. 1631 John Pointz d. 1633 Elizabeth Sydenham (d. 1595) Thomas Viscount Thurles d. 1619 d.v.p.* Elizabeth Pointz 1587–1673 George Mathew d. 1636 James 1st Duke 1610–1688 Elizabeth Preston 1615–1684 Theobald d. 1699 Margaret Thomas 6th Earl Ossory 1633–1680 d.v.p.* Emilia von Nassau 1635–1688 Legend XXX Thomas Butler XXX Earls & dukes of Ormond *d.v.p. = predeceased his father (decessit vita patris)

First marriage and children

In 1608, Elizabeth married Thomas Butler, son of Walter Butler. At the time her father-in-law was a nephew of the ruling earl, Black Tom, the 10th earl of Ormond. Apparently, the marriage was against her father-in-law's wishes.

Thomas and Elizabeth had three sons:^[7]

1. James (1610–1688), became the 1st Duke of Ormond^[8]
2. John (died 1636), died unmarried in Naples on his travels^[9]
3. Richard (1615–1701) of Kilcash^[10]

—and four daughters:^{[lower-alpha 2]}

1. Helena or Ellen or Eleanor (1612–1682), married Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty before 1633 ^{[13][14][15][lower-alpha 3]}
2. Eleanor or Ellen, married Sir Andrew Aylmer (1613–1671), 2nd baronet, of Donadea in the County of Kildare in 1634 ^[18][19]
3. Mary (died 1680), married Sir George Hamilton, 1st Baronet, of Donalong in 1635^[20][21][22]
4. Elizabeth (d. 1675), married first James Purcell, Baron Loughmoe (1609–1652), by whom she had Nicholas Purcell of Loughmoe (1651–1722);^[23] she married secondly John FitzPatrick of Castletown^{[24][lower-alpha 4]}

Lady Thurles

When Black Tom died in November 1614,^[26] Walter, her father-in-law, succeeded as the 11th earl, and her husband became heir apparent with the courtesy title of Viscount Thurles. She therefore became Lady Thurles.

While the Ormond title was secure, the lands were claimed by Richard Preston, 1st Earl of Desmond, who had married Elizabeth, Black Tom's only surviving child in autumn 1614, shortly before her father's death. The 11th Earl contested Preston's claim, but the king intervened and decided in Preston's favour. As Walter refused to accept, the king arrested him and held him in London's Fleet Prison.

Some sources say that Lady Thurles lived in Thurles Castle from her first marriage until her death (1608–1673), except for a short period (1658–1660) during the rule of Cromwell—she was a Catholic Royalist.^[27] It is not clear, however, how she could have returned to Thurles Castle because Lewis writes that "this castle, during the parliamentary war, was garrisoned for the King, but was afterwards taken by the parliamentarian forces, by whom it was demolished".^[28] On the other hand, Lady Thurles may have returned to a newer building on or close to the site of the castle which may also have been called Thurles Castle; Grose, writing in 1791,^[29] and Armitage, writing in 1912,^[30] seem to imply that a building called Thurles Castle still existed in their times.

Lord Thurles drowned on 15 December 1619, when the ship that should have carried him to England was wrecked off the Skerries near Anglesey.^[31] Thomas had been on his way to answer charges of treason for having garrisoned Kilkenny. Her son James, aged 9, became the new heir apparent and therefore was styled Viscount Thurles. In principle, she became now dowager Lady Thurles, but was still called Lady Thurles for short.

Second marriage and children

In 1620 Lady Thurles married Captain George Mathew of Radyr and Llandaff in Glamorganshire, Wales.^[32] He was a Catholic. ^[33] With George Elizabeth had two sons:

1. Theobald (d. 1699), was granted the manor of Thurles by his half-brother James^[34]
2. George^{[lower-alpha 5]}

—and one daughter:

1. Frances

In 1629 her son James, styled Lord Thurles, married Elizabeth. There were now two persons called "Elizabeth, Lady Thurles", the actual one and the dowager one. When Walter, the father-in-law of dowager Lady Thurles, died in 1633,^[35] James succeeded as the 12th Earl of Ormond and his wife became Countess of Ormond. The name "Thurles" was now unique again and could only mean the dowager Lady Thurles.

In 1636 Thurles's second husband died at Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales.^[36] She would outlive him by 37 years.

Late life, death, and Timeline

In May 1646 Ormond feared for Thurles's safety and had her brought to Dublin. Similar rescues were organised for Thurles's daughters, Lady Hamilton, Lady Muskerry, and Lady Loughmoe.^[37]

In 1656, during the Protectorate, Thurles was left in the possession of the manor of Thurles and excepted from transplantation as a result of a petition by Hardress Waller and other army officers.^[38]

Lady Thurles died in Thurles in May 1673. She was buried in Thurles beside what is now the Protestant church of St. Mary's.

Timeline
Italics for historical background.
Age	Date	Event
0	1587	Born
15–16	24 Mar 1603	Accession of James I, succeeding Elizabeth I[39]
20–21	1608	Married 1st husband, Thomas Butler, Viscount Thurles
22–23	1610	Son James born
26–27	22 Nov 1614	Styled Viscountess Thurles as Thomas, the 10th earl, died[40]
29–30	1617	Walter, her father-in-law, detained in Fleet Prison[41]
31–32	15 Dec 1619	1st husband died.[42]
37–38	18 Mar 1625	Walter, her father-in-law, submitted to James I's decision.
37–38	27 Mar 1625	Accession of Charles I, succeeding James I[43]
41–42	125 Dec 1629	Son James married Elizabeth Preston.
45–46	24 Feb 1633	Father-in-law died at Carrick-on-Suir.[44]
48–49	Oct 1636	2nd husband died.[45]
53–54	23 Oct 1641	Outbreak of the Rebellion[46]
72–73	29 May 1660	Restoration of Charles II[47]
85–86	1673	Died

Notes and references

Notes

1. This family tree is partly derived from the condensed Butler family tree pictured in Dunboyne.^[6] Also see the lists of children in the text.
2. Bernard Burke lists the daughters as: Helena (married MacCarty), Ellen (married Aylmer), Mary (married Hamilton), and Elizabeth (married Purcell).^[11] Lodge lists them as Ellen (married MacCarty), Elizabeth (married Purcell), Mary (married Hamilton), and Eleanor (married Aylmer).^[12]
3. Their eldest son, Charles (or Cormac), was born between 4 June 1633 and 3 June 1634 as he died on 3 June 1635,^[16] aged 31.^[17]
4. Elizabeth was, however, not the mother of Richard FitzPatrick, 1st Baron Gowran, who was a son or grandson of Andrew Fitzpatrick of Castle Fleming.^[25]
5. George had a daughter, Frances Mary Mathew, who, in 1723, married John Ryan, a member of one of the few remaining landed Catholic families in County Tipperary at the time, and lived with him at Inch House in the townland of Inch.

Citations

1. Shaw 1906, p. 87. "1588 John Points (Pore) (ibid. [in the Low Countries] by same [Lord Willoughby])"
2. Williams 1898, p. 48. "Sir John Pointz, Lord of the Manor of Iron Action ... knighted before 1593 ... was buried in Iron Action in 1633"
3. MacLean 1886, p. 88. "... he [Sir John Poyntz] died intestate and insolvent "
4. Cokayne 1945, p. 149a. "... of Alexander Sydenham of Luxborough, Somerset"
5. MacLean 1886, p. 96. "She [her mother] was bur. [buried] at St. Margaret's, Westminster, 7 Dec. 1595. Died in childbed."
6. Dunboyne, Patrick Theobald Tower Butler, Baron (1968). Butler Family History (2nd ed.). Kilkenny: Rothe House. pp. 16–17. . "Butler Family Tree condensed"{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
7. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 26. "... three sons and four daughters, viz:"
8. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 27. "James, successor to his grandfather, created Duke of Ormond, one of the ablest statesmen, and worthiest person of the age in which he flourished."
9. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 30. "John who died unmarried at Naples, on his travels, in 1636."
10. Lodge 1789, p. 40, line 18. "Richard Butler of Kilcash, Esq.; the youngest son, had a confirmation (by virtue of the commission of grace) 24 June 1639, of the lands of Kilcash, Garryricken, and many others in the counties of Tipperary and Kilkenny; with a limitation thereof to his heirs male; remainder to the respective heirs male of Walter Earl of Ormond; Pierce Butler Fitz-Walter ..."
11. Burke & Burke 1915, p. 1550, left column, line 37. "1. Thomas, Viscount Thurles ... had issue: ... 1. Helena ... 2. Ellen ... 3. Mary ... 4. Elizabeth ..."
12. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 16. "Thomas, Lord Thurles ... three sons and four daughters, viz. ... (1) Daughter Ellen ... (2) Elizabeth ... (3) Mary ... (4) Eleanor ..."
13. Burke & Burke 1915, p. 1550, left column, line 70. "I. Helena, m. [married] Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty."
14. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 33. "Daughter Ellen, married to Donogh, Earl of Clancarthy, and dying in April 1682, AEt. 70, was buried 24 in the Chancel of St. Michan's church."
15. Cokayne 1913, p. 215, line 4. "He [Donough MacCarty] m. [married], before 1648, Eleanor, sister of James, 1st Duke of Ormonde, da. [daughter] of Thomas Butler styled Viscount Thurles, by Elizabeth da. of Sir John Pointz."
16. Cokayne 1913, p. 215, line 13. "He [Charles (Cormac)] d. v.p. [predeceased his father] being slain on board 'the Royal Charles' in a sea-fight against the Dutch, 3, and was bur. [buried] 22 June 1665 in Westm. [Westminster] Abbey."
17. Lainé 1836, p. 76, line 1. "... dans un combat naval livré aux Hollandais, le 13 juin 1665 [N.S.] à l'âge de trente-et-un ans."
18. Cokayne 1900, p. 231, line 31. "He [Andrew Aylmer] m. [married], in 1634 Ellen, sister of James, 1st Duke of Ormonde, da. [daughter] of Thomas Butler, styled Viscount Thurles, by Elizabeth, da. of Sir John Poyntz."
19. Lodge 1789, p. 40, line 16. "Eleanor, married to Sir Andrew Aylmer, of Donadea in the county of Kildare, Baronet."
20. Manning 2001, p. 150, line 42. "... February 28th 1635 regarding the marriage intended between Hamilton and Mary Butler, sister of the earl, which was to take place before the last day of April."
21. Burke & Burke 1915, p. 54, right column, line 33. "4. George (Sir), 1st Bart. of Donalong, co. Tyrone and Nenagh, co. Tipperary, created a baronet of Scotland about 1660; m. [married] (art. dated 2 June 1629) Mary 3rd dau. [daughter] of Thomas Viscount Thurles and sister of the 1st Duke of Ormonde. He d. [died] 1679. She d. Aug 1680 ..."
22. Lodge 1789, p. 40, line 14. "Mary, married to Sir George Hamilton, ancestor by her to the Earl of Abercorn, and died in August 1680."
23. Lodge 1789, p. 39, line 36. "Elizabeth, first married to James Purcell, Esq.; titular baron of Loughmoe, by whom she had one son Nicholas, and two daughters; ..."
24. Burke 1866, p. 210, left column. "John Fitz-Patrick, Esq., of Castletown, doctor of laws, who m. [married] Elizabeth, 4th dau. [daughter] of Thomas, Viscount Thurles, sister of James, 1st Duke of Ormonde, and widow of James Purcell, baron of Loughmoe, by whom (who d. [died] 6 December 1675) ..."
25. Rigg 2004, p. 915. "... not as was formerly thought, the son of John Fitzpatrick of Castletown, Queen's County."
26. Cokayne 1895, p. [ 148, line 30]. "He [Thomas] d. s.p.m. at Carrick, 22 Nov. 1614, aged 82 ..."
27. Thurles – Ancestral Home of Prince Charles and Lady Diana
28. Lewis, Samuel. A Topographical Dictionary of Ireland, p. PA634, at Google Books, London: S. Lewis and Co., 1837, p. 623.
29. Grose, Francis. The antiquities of Ireland, (1791)
30. Armitage, Ella S. The Early Norman Castles of the British Isles, (1912)
31. Cokayne 1895, p. 149, line 14. "He [Thurles] d. v.p. [predeceased his father] being drowned off the Skerries, 15 Dec. 1619."
32. Burke 1879, p. bottom 1079, right column. "George, eldest son of Edmund Mathew, of Radyr, High Sheriff co. Glamorgan, m. [married] 1620, Elizabeth, Viscountess Thurles, other of James, Duke of Ormonde, and settled in Ireland."
33. Brennan 1974, p. 4. "George Mathews of Thurles, her second husband, a Catholic, became the agent for the Ormond estate during James' twelve year minority."
34. Mathew 1959, 3rd paragraph. "Theobald Mathew (died 1699), son of George Mathew of Radyr (died 1636) by his wife Elizabeth, Viscountess Thurles, was granted the manor of Thurles by his half-brother, the first Duke of Ormond."
35. Edwards 2004, p. 231, right column, line 57. "He [Walter] died on 18 February 1633 and was buried in the Ormond family tomb in St Canice's cathedral ..."
36. Cokayne 1945, p. 149. "... who d. [died] and was bur. [buried] in Oct. 1636 at Timby [Tenby]."
37. Manning 2001, p. 151, line 29. "The younger Lady Hamilton was brought to Dublin, presumably with her family, in 1646, with her mother, Lady Thurles, and her sisters: Lady Muskerry and the wife of the baron of Loghmoe as reported on May 30th 1646."
38. Graves 1863, p. 283, note continued from page 282. "... the claim of the Lady Viscountess Thurles to the lands of Thurles, and of other lands in the county of Tipperary was referred: setting forth that the claim of the Lady be allowed ..."
39. Fryde et al. 1986, p. 44, line 1. "James I ... acc. 24 Mar. 1603 ..."
40. Cokayne 1895 volume VI p 148, line 30 "He [Thomas] d. s.p.m. at Carrick, 22 Nov. 1614, aged 82 ..."
41. Cokayne 1895, p. 149, line 6. "... committed for eight years, 1617–25, to the Fleet prison, London."
42. Cokayne 1895, p. 149, line 14. "He [Thurles] d. v.p. [predeceased his father] being drowned off the Skerries, 15 Dec. 1619."
43. Fryde et al. 1986, p. 44, line 16. "Charles I. ... acc. 27 Mar. 1625 ..."
44. Edwards 2004, p. 231, right column, line 57. "He [Walter] died on 18 February 1633 and was buried in the Ormond family tomb in St Canice's cathedral ..."
45. Cokayne 1945, p. 149b. "... who d. [died] and was bur. [buried] in Oct. 1636 at Timby [Tenby]."
46. Warner 1768, p. 6. "... the twenty-third October [1641] ... seized all the towns, castles, and houses belonging to the Protestants which they had force enough to possess;"
47. Fryde et al. 1986, p. 44, line 39. "Charles II. ... acc. 29 May 1660 ..."

Sources

• Brennan, Monica A. (1974). James Butler and the Royalist cause in Ireland, 1641-1650 (MA). Portland, Oregon: Portland State University.
• Burke, Bernard (1866). A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire (New ed.). London: Harrison. OCLC 11501348. – (for FitzPatrick)
• Burke, Sir Bernard (1879). A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland. Vol. II (6th ed.). London: Harrison. OCLC 972909415. – L to Z (for George Mathew)
• Burke, Bernard; Burke, Ashworth Peter (1915). A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage and Companionage (77th ed.). London: Harrison. OCLC 1155471554. – (for Ormond)
• Cokayne, George Edward (1895). Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct, or Dormant. Vol. VI (1st ed.). London: George Bell and Sons. OCLC 1180818801. – N to R
• Cokayne, George Edward (1900). Complete Baronetage, 1611 to 1800. Vol. I (1st ed.). Exeter: William Pollard & Co. OCLC 866278985. – 1611 to 1625
• Cokayne, George Edward (1913). Gibbs, Vicary (ed.). The complete peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant. Vol. III (2nd ed.). London: St Catherine Press. OCLC 228661424. – Canonteign to Cutts (for Clancarty)
• Cokayne, George Edward (1945). Doubleday, H. A. (ed.). The complete peerage or a History of the House of Lords and all its Members from the Earliest Times. Vol. X (2nd ed.). London: The St Catherine Press. ISBN 978-0-904387-82-7. OCLC 228661424. – Oakham to Richmond (snippet view) (for Ormond)
• Edwards, David (2004). "Butler, Walter, eleventh earl of Ormond and fourth Earl of Ossory (1559–1633)". In Matthew, Henry Colin Gray; Harrison, Brian (eds.). Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. 9. New York: Oxford University Press. pp. 230–231. ISBN 0-19-861359-8.
• Fryde, Edmund Boleslaw; Greenway, D. E.; Porter, S.; Roy, I., eds. (1986). Handbook of British Chronology. Royal Historical Society Guides and Handbooks, No. 2 (3rd ed.). London: Offices of the Royal Historical Society. ISBN 0-86193-106-8. – (for timeline)
• Graves, James (1863). "Anonymous Account of the Early Life and Marriage of James, First Duke of Ormond". The Journal of the Kilkenny and South-East of Ireland Archaeological Society. New. 4 (2): 276–292. JSTOR 25502636.
• Lainé, P. Louis (1836). "Mac-Carthy". Archives généalogiques et historiques de la noblesse de France [Genealogical and Historical Archives of the Nobility of France] (in French). Vol. Tome cinquième. Paris: Imprimerie de Bethune et Plon. pp. 1–102. OCLC 865941166.
• Lodge, John (1789). Archdall, Mervyn (ed.). The Peerage of Ireland or, A Genealogical History of the Present Nobility of that Kingdom. Vol. IV. Dublin: James Moore. OCLC 264906028. – Viscounts (for Butler, Viscount Mountgarrett)
• MacLean, John (1886). Historical and genealogical memoir of the family of Poyntz. Vol. Part I. Exeter: Private printed by William Pollard. OCLC 902853377.
• Manning, Conleth (2001). "The Two Sir George Hamiltons and their Connections with the Castles of Roscrea and Nenagh" (PDF). Tipperary Historical Journal: 149–154.
• Mathew, David, archbishop (1959). "Mathew family". Dictionary of Welsh Biography. Retrieved 20 October 2023.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Rigg, James McMullen (2004). "Fitzpatrick, Richard, 1st Baron Gowran (c. 1662–1727)". In Matthew, Colin; Harrison, Brian (eds.). Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. 19. New York: Oxford University Press. p. 915. ISBN 0-19-861369-5.
• Shaw, William Arthur (1906). The Knights of England: A complete record from the earliest time to the present day of the knights of all the orders of chivalry in England, Scotland, and Ireland, and of knights bachelors, incorporating a complete list of knights bachelors dubbed in Ireland. Vol. II. London: Sherratt & Hughes. – Knights bachelors & Index
• Warner, Ferdinand (1768). History of the Rebellion and Civil-War in Ireland. Vol. I. Dublin: James William. OCLC 82770539. – 1641 to 1643
• Williams, W. R. (1898). The Parliamentry History of the County of Gloucestershire. Hereford: Printed privately by Jakeman & Carver. OCLC 919917160.

Further reading

• Corbett, William; Nolan, William, eds. (1989). Thurles, the Cathedral Town: Essays in Honour of Archbishop Thomas Morris. Thurles: Geography Publications. – Google Books no preview