Talk:Soviet Union

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Soviet Union article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19Auto-archiving period: 91 days

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Soviet Union. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Soviet Union at the Reference desk.

This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

	Soviet Union was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result August 2, 2005 Peer review Reviewed August 13, 2006 Good article reassessment Delisted
	Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on December 8, 2004, and December 26, 2006.
Current status: Delisted good article

This  level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Soviet Union Top‑importance Soviet Union portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Socialism Top‑importance Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Politics Top‑importance Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Atheism Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Atheism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of atheism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. For more information and how you can help, click the [Show] link opposite: If you would like to participate, you can edit this article and visit the project page. Quick help Project's main talk page Article layout Links to atheism-related information · List of free online resources Writing about religion · Article development Citing sources · Verifying sources · About original research Assume good faith · Be civil Recent activity Core articles the "Atheism" article Articles recently added to Category:Atheism To do edit history watch purge Join WikiProject atheism and be bold. Add a userbox to your page ({{User WikiProject Atheism}} or {{User WPA2}}) and attract potential members. Help with articles. See this month's adopt-an-article. Help out with this to-do list. Be consistent Use a "standard" layout for atheism-related articles (see layout style, "The perfect article" and Featured articles). Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{WikiProject Atheism}} or see info box) Ensure atheism-related articles are members of Atheism by checking whether [[Category:Atheism]] has been added to atheism-related articles – and, where it hasn't, adding it. Maintenance, etc. Find sources for all positions of an article (see Citing sources and atheism references). Try to expand stubs. Ideas and theories about life, however, are prone to generating neologisms, so some stubs may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process). Watch the list of atheism-related articles and add to accordingly. Always write for an encyclopedia. Articles to improve Agnosticism Create Articles on notable atheists Expand an atheism stub Immediate attention State atheism needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments. False choice into False dilemma: discuss whether you are for or against this merge here Clarify references in Atheism using footnotes. Secular movement defines it as a being restricted to America in the 21st century. Russia: History / Human geography Top‑importance Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the history of Russia task force. This article is supported by the human geography of Russia task force. Former countries This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project. History Mid‑importance History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. European history High‑importance Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Section sizes Section size for Soviet Union (40 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 21,617 21,617 Etymology 5,691 5,691 History 3,206 3,206 Geography 14,089 14,089 Government and politics 589 45,702 Communist Party 5,966 5,966 Government 6,242 6,242 Separation of power and reform 7,421 7,421 Judicial system 1,173 1,173 Human rights 3,034 3,034 Foreign relations 7,728 16,724 Early policies (1919–1939) 6,460 6,460 World War II (1939–1945) 1,347 1,347 Cold War (1945–1991) 1,189 1,189 Administrative divisions 4,553 4,553 Military 3,504 3,504 Economy 16,117 33,997 Energy 2,833 2,833 Science and technology 5,909 5,909 Space program 5,218 5,218 Transport 3,920 3,920 Demographics 8,109 46,440 Urbanism 2,508 2,508 Women and fertility 3,114 3,114 Education 7,494 7,494 Nationalities and ethnic groups 5,484 5,484 Health 3,219 4,389 Dentistry 1,170 1,170 Language 2,129 2,129 Religion 13,213 13,213 Culture 3,395 3,395 Sport 5,904 5,904 Legacy 23,225 31,984 In the former Soviet republics 2,051 2,051 By the political left 6,708 6,708 See also 363 363 Notes 49 49 References 30 30 Bibliography 8,449 8,449 External links 1,466 1,466 Total 225,886 225,886

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened: February 20 to 26, 2022 February 27 to March 5, 2022

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Schwede66 talk 17:51, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Vertical flag of the USSR.

• ... that Source: Boris Yeltsin came into power on July 10, 1991?
  • Reviewed:

Created by 342rfawrfarefarwf (talk). Self-nominated at 18:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Soviet Union; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Unfortunately the article is not eligible for DYK as it is not newly-created, it was not expanded at least five times, and it wasn't promoted to Good Article status within the last seven days. In addition, no hook has actually been proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Successor?

Was the Soviet Union legal successor to the Russian Empire? Marquis05 (talk) 05:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

The Soviet Union was not the legal successor to the Russian Empire in a straightforward legal sense, but it was its de facto successor AlasdarVan (talk) 05:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you explain? Marquis05 (talk) 06:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe they could, but Wikipedia talk pages are not forums. Ask the question on a forum like Reddit instead. Yue🌙 06:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

So we should add two words "de facto" at the beginning of the article to avoid misunderstanding. Marquis05 (talk) 06:21, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Internationally, it was indeed recognized that the SU was the legal successor to the RE, due to the acquisition of all RE assets, and it did assume many of the Empire's responsibilities and positions both domestically and internationally. But, the Soviet Union implemented a new legal and political framework, distinct from that of the Russian Empire, which could be an argument for the succession not being LEGAL. While the SU itself did not recognize (did not claim) the legality of their succession, it was de-facto.

It is also hard to say if int.community officially recognized the SU as the LEGAL successor of the RE. They did recognize the legality of establishment of the SU, though not succession. An example would be a mention from the US History Governmental website on USSR, where it states:

"With the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, the United States considered the Russian Federation as the successor state of the USSR"

No mention of neither de jure nor de facto. AlasdarVan (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Forget about the example. I did not notice it was about the Russian Federation and USSR, not USSR and the RE. Sorry AlasdarVan (talk) 20:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Russian Republic succeeded Russian Empire. Mellk (talk) 13:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• This is a difficult question. And this is a much more complex issue than in the case of the Soviet Union with its 12 successors and 1 continuator (I invite everyone to expand the article Succession, continuity and legacy of the Soviet Union). It looks like this is a partial succession by choice in the case of the Russian Empire and the USSR. "The General Treaty between the USSR and the United Kingdom was signed on 18 August 1924. It announced that 17 treaties between the Russian Empire and the United Kingdom were not in force, but at the same time there was a list of treaties between the Russian Empire and the United Kingdom that remained in force between the USSR and United Kingdom."
  During Gorbachev's visit to the UK in 1986, an Agreement was signed between the Government of the USSR and the Government of the UK on the settlement of mutual financial and property claims that arose before 1939. Under it, the UK renounced all claims that arose before 1 January 1939, in particular claims in relation to any bonds issued or guaranteed before 7 November 1917 by the former Government of the Russian Empire or any part of the Russian Empire, or the authorities administering such part, and belonging to the Government or citizens of the United Kingdom.
  In 1996, Paris and Moscow signed an accord for Russia to partly repay czarist bonds. "In France, lawsuits were also filed against the Russian government, demanding repayment of the loan (in full). However, the court (in France) refused to recognize the Russian Federation as a guarantor for the issuance of the tsarist loans. According to the court's position, the actions of the Russian Empire are covered by diplomatic immunity, which the Russian Federation inherited as the legal successor of the Russian Empire and which neutralizes lawsuits directed against the Russian Federation." The same article says “In 1990, Mikhail Gorbachev signed an agreement in which the USSR recognized itself as the legal successor of the Russian Empire and all regimes that existed on its territory in 1917–1922.” But it is necessary to find the text of this agreement. _ruASG⁺¹  04:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were NEVER part of the Soviet Union

Why does the article insist on naming these three sovereign states as having preceded the USSR and succeeded it when they were never legally a part of it, but rather illegally occupied by it? Basically only criminal Russia today claims that they were legitimately part of it. At the very least, the infobox should make it VERY clear that these three are considered to have been illegally occupied by the USSR and don't consider themselves as neither predecessors, nor successors of the USSR.

Also, the sentence "In August 1991, Latvia and Estonia immediately declared the restoration of their full independence (following Lithuania's 1990 example)." is rather simplistic history and makes it look as if Estonia and Latvia truly followed Lithuania's example when getting rid of the Soviet rule. The real timeline of events was far more complicated and all three had declared Soviet rule to have been legally null and void from the start in early 1990, in a rather short timeframe. Estonia had even been the first to declare sovereignty from the occupying USSR. I suggest this sentence be revised - the word "example" should be changed to "declaration". 146.255.183.23 (talk) 17:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

None of which changes the fact that by any practical definition they were part and parcel of the Soviet Union. I understand that that is distasteful to them, but it is a simple fact. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 15:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Independent confusion between Estonia, Latvia and Armenia

Well since both got their independence restored possibly on the same year and month (Like Latvia: Either 5/4/1990 (Declared/Partial Independent) or 8/21/1991 (Fully Independent), and Estonia: Either 5/8/1990 (Declared/Partial Independent) or 8/20/1991 (Fully Independent)). It's pretty confused for people to think what the actual date is that they restored their independent. Let's hope someone can make this less confused. Don’t forget about the Armenia’s independence (despite it gained in 8/23/1990 as declared/partial and 9/21/1991 and fully). As of according to the actual history or government, 4 countries left the Soviet Union not just 1— Preceding unsigned comment added by STB363 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

GDP placement is wrong, I think.

Can someone fix this, I do not have access. Japan was the second largest economy in the world in 1990, after the US. Why does it say 2nd after the Soviet Unions GDP? It should say third. Northside95 (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• The Soviet Union had fixed exchange rate of the Soviet ruble (and didn't allow free movement of capital) therefore in 1990 its nominal GDP was the second largest according to CIA, see List of countries by past and projected GDP (nominal)#CIA estimates in 1990. _ruASG⁺¹  02:55, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

"CCCP\" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect CCCP\ has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 30 § CCCP\ until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)