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@ErnestKrause: @Yolo4A4Lo: I moved our discussion here about the inclusion of an image of Hanyu's Axel jump, since it has such a key role in the upcoming 21-22 season.
I found the following solution: I added a paragraph about Hanyu's gala performance to "Notte Stellata" in Pyeongchang. Now that we have an extra subpage for his Olympic seasons, I see no reason to skip that information. This has many advantages:
- There is more coherence in the section now and no drastic jump in topic from painkillers to future plans.
- The previous info about Hanyu being the most-talked athlete on Twitter is no longer isolated from the rest of the section, but put into some context.
I also added a quote about his relation with the triple Axel to make more clear, why his desire for the quad is that strong. This quote also makes the choice of the triple Axel image from the Pyeongchang gala more logical and fitting for that particular section.
I will add a short paragraph about his Sochi gala performance, too. Nothing big, just 2-3 sentences at max, so that the sections about his Olympic performances are similar in structure. Henni147 (talk) 15:54, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Henni147: I have made an edit to remove the details on the gala itself because I believe it's out of the topic since gala doesn't has any direct connection to his win. The info about speculation on him being flag bearer is a TMI too. The image of the triple Axel is in-context enough without adding those information above since his quote has already referred to the jump. So, there's no need to add a paragraph on his Sochi gala. Let's keep it on the topic. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: I get your point. If we reduce the article to his competition results and Olympic titles only, then the gala doesn't belong there. On the other hand, we are not restricted to results only. The article is called 'Olympic seasons' after all, not 'Olympic titles'. We created this subpage to keep the bios at reasonable size and give more room for details about his Olympic seasons, which includes his gala performances, too. In my opinion, they are definitely notable and relevant enough in the context of the Tohoku Earthquake to be mentioned here at least. Apqaria and fellow translators share that opinion. (In a way, his Pyeongchang EX is even connected to the gold medal, since the back-to-back win was one of the main reasons to pick him as the last gala performer.)
- I totally agree with you regarding the flag bearer info, though. That can be skipped indeed. Henni147 (talk) 07:21, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Henni147: This article is after all a split from the section of his Career. What the tragedy has to do with his career has been explained in a broad stroke on the main article and the Philanthropy section of it. Unless somehow there's come a time to create a dedicated article on all of his programs (which I doubt, even classics musicians don't get all of their works explained here), those bits I removed are unnecessary. And on "the back-to-back win was one of the main reasons to pick him as the last gala performer", I checked the source and no, they didn't mentioned that's the reason. They simply mentioned it as a trivia. Even though it's indeed mentioned, it's a conclusion made by media, not ISU officially stated that's how they decided the order. And "fellow translators" as in translators who are also fans, right? Mind you, Wikipedia is never about fans. And I'm here trying to be objective as both of a Wikipedia editor and his fan. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: I looked up the bios and the philantropy section, but I definitely miss a mentioning of his series of gala tributes somewhere, just one or two sentences. I don't say this as a fan. I feel that it's important for casual readers to know that he also payed tribute to the victims in settings without any donations or other financial aspects involved. Where it's about his skating and the symbolic message to the people in the first place. However, if it goes against WP's policy to include the gala info, we will respect that decision of course.
- Footnote: Yes, I agree that it's not explicitely stated in the article that his win influenced the skating order at the 2018 gala, so we must not make that connection. I should have added "probably" in the argumentation above, but let's just skip that part. Henni147 (talk) 08:56, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Henni147: This article is after all a split from the section of his Career. What the tragedy has to do with his career has been explained in a broad stroke on the main article and the Philanthropy section of it. Unless somehow there's come a time to create a dedicated article on all of his programs (which I doubt, even classics musicians don't get all of their works explained here), those bits I removed are unnecessary. And on "the back-to-back win was one of the main reasons to pick him as the last gala performer", I checked the source and no, they didn't mentioned that's the reason. They simply mentioned it as a trivia. Even though it's indeed mentioned, it's a conclusion made by media, not ISU officially stated that's how they decided the order. And "fellow translators" as in translators who are also fans, right? Mind you, Wikipedia is never about fans. And I'm here trying to be objective as both of a Wikipedia editor and his fan. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
@Yolo4A4Lo, ErnestKrause, and Figureskatingfan: There was a peer review for this article before the Beijing Olympics, but we didn't really move on from there, so I'd like to revive the review again. I made some final adjustments and think, this article has now reached the quality standard to be nominated for FAC. Hanyu has finished his competitive career, so the page is not expected to change much anymore (unless he decides to unretire which is not very likely). When the FA nomination process of the Tara Lipinski article is completed, it would be great to continue with this one. I would be very grateful to hear your opinions on it. Henni147 (talk) 16:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- I actually have put the article on the Guild of Copy Editors to be copy-edited but it hasn't been picked up yet, so feel free to copy-edit it. I don't know if the peer-review can be opened again, I couldn't find the policy on it. Maybe we can just discuss it here if it's a structural problem or something big. Since we can't nominate an article that's requested on GoCE, I'll remove the article from there when we think it's ready for FAC but not yet been picked up there. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: Yes, that is a good solution. Thank you very much for your effort. Henni147 (talk) 04:10, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with Yolo also on this; GOCE is a good approach and particularly as they have a Backlog elimination drive on in September. Regarding the nomination for the Hanyu Olympic seasons article, maybe Henni has some ideas about if this is to be a co-nomination, or otherwise. If Henni would like a co-nominator then I'll try to join in; it sounds like straight to FAC rather than doing a GAN first? Also, my original plan was to see if separately Yolo would do a co-nomination with me for the Hanyu biography article going to FAC, after Tara's biography assessment is complete. If Henni has other thoughts about these peer review questions then they can be discussed here on Talk page. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- For this article, it's better to shoot for FAC right away since, like Henni said, there won't be any big changes anymore (unless Hanyu suddenly comes back for another Olympics, which I doubt). For his biography, I don't think it's the time yet. There are some things still need to be addressed in his Impact and Accolades section. His Public Life section needs to be re-summarized. You can check my to-do list. My suggestion is to wait and see what Hanyu will do in his first year of pro career while "touching up" and updating the current material, so we have the grasp how to structure the potential updates. Once, we figure that out, we later can re-structure Yuna's biography as well. The scope of their biographies are similar. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 01:03, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo and ErnestKrause: I think, for this article here, we can definitely skip GAN. I went through all FAC criteria this week and fixed the remaining issues. The only two aspects that need to be discussed for FAC are the language quality (wording, style) and content of the prose part regarding relevant information. That's more or less it, and I'm confident that this article will get a pass. I actually plan to record a spoken version, when it has reached FAC status. I am familiar with the content, and since Hanyu has already retired, it won't change much, so it's really worth to turn it into a spoken article, which adds to its value.
- Regarding Hanyu's main bios page: I agree with Yolo4A4Lo that it needs further polishment before FAC nomination. I plan to start checking the citations and sourcing today. For FAC it's important to have a consistent, uniform citation style across the article. It might be smart to use the same style as for the rest of the Hanyu page series. The career achievements, Fantasy on Ice, and this Olympic seasons sub-page all use the same system now, and it would be nice if the main bios fit that one, too. What do you think? Henni147 (talk) 12:03, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- You can mention to Yolo or myself when you would like the final read through and copy edits to be done for the Hanyu Olympics article as you discuss above. Do you want to do this as a FAC co-nomination or did you have some alternate plans in mind? ErnestKrause (talk) 12:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ErnestKrause: I finished my final checks for this article today, so from my part it's ready for FA nomination now. I am not familiar with the FA nomination process myself, so it would be great to have some help with that. Thank you very much in advance. Henni147 (talk) 12:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Agreement with your comments that its ready. I've made some copy edits and plan to put in the co-nomination at FAC later today. You can adapt my copy edits further as needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:38, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ErnestKrause:
- Sorry I couldn't reply immediately because I had to do check- in hospitalup, but I saw Ernest has already nominated the article for FAC. As I've said before, an article can't be nominated when it's still listed on GOCE, so I'll go remove that. Please add me as a co-nominator too. I think the fact I'm on of the most regular editors of the article makes me appropriate enough to be one of the nominators. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 15:13, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Both of your names are already listed in the FAC preface which I wrote yesterday, and you can add your signatures to the nomination whenever its convenient for you to add it. Nice edits by Henni to the article since the nomination yesterday. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Agreement with your comments that its ready. I've made some copy edits and plan to put in the co-nomination at FAC later today. You can adapt my copy edits further as needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:38, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ErnestKrause: I finished my final checks for this article today, so from my part it's ready for FA nomination now. I am not familiar with the FA nomination process myself, so it would be great to have some help with that. Thank you very much in advance. Henni147 (talk) 12:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- You can mention to Yolo or myself when you would like the final read through and copy edits to be done for the Hanyu Olympics article as you discuss above. Do you want to do this as a FAC co-nomination or did you have some alternate plans in mind? ErnestKrause (talk) 12:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- For this article, it's better to shoot for FAC right away since, like Henni said, there won't be any big changes anymore (unless Hanyu suddenly comes back for another Olympics, which I doubt). For his biography, I don't think it's the time yet. There are some things still need to be addressed in his Impact and Accolades section. His Public Life section needs to be re-summarized. You can check my to-do list. My suggestion is to wait and see what Hanyu will do in his first year of pro career while "touching up" and updating the current material, so we have the grasp how to structure the potential updates. Once, we figure that out, we later can re-structure Yuna's biography as well. The scope of their biographies are similar. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 01:03, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with Yolo also on this; GOCE is a good approach and particularly as they have a Backlog elimination drive on in September. Regarding the nomination for the Hanyu Olympic seasons article, maybe Henni has some ideas about if this is to be a co-nomination, or otherwise. If Henni would like a co-nominator then I'll try to join in; it sounds like straight to FAC rather than doing a GAN first? Also, my original plan was to see if separately Yolo would do a co-nomination with me for the Hanyu biography article going to FAC, after Tara's biography assessment is complete. If Henni has other thoughts about these peer review questions then they can be discussed here on Talk page. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: Yes, that is a good solution. Thank you very much for your effort. Henni147 (talk) 04:10, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
@Yolo4A4Lo: I checked the rules for comma use with appositions at Cambridge dictionary, and it says that people's names only get separated with a comma if the main sentence doesn't change in meaning without the mentioning of their exact name.
In our cases it is essential to add the skaters' name, because Hanyu had more than one training mate at TCC, and also multiple compatriots in the Japanese team. Example:
- His main motivation for the change were the consistent quadruple jumps by Orser's student, Javier Fernández.
- The comma in this sentence implies that Fernández was Hanyu's only training mate at TCC.
- His main motivation for the change were the consistent quadruple jumps by Orser's student Javier Fernández.
- In this sentence Fernández is highlighted among Orser's other students.
I also looked up multiple sources re Skate Canada. If it's only "Skate Canada" or "Skate Canada International" as a general recurring event, there is no "the" placed before them (see these articles by ISU or TSN for example). However, if we talk about an event in a specific year, then it's "the 2019 Skate Canada" etc. Meanwhile, events that contain terms like "championship" or "trophy" like "NHK Trophy" seem to require "the", even if it's not a specific event.
I'd say that we should stick with these conventions as well. Henni147 (talk) 07:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
@Epicgenius and Lee Vilenski: The FAC review is already closed, but you suggested to condense the key event sections and shift the focus more towards the Olympics. We made an attempt to do so, and it would be great to get a quick feedback for the prose. Here are two notes regarding the changes:
- Yolo4A4Lo shortened the key events before the 2013-14 season, focussing on Hanyu's career goals, coaching situation, main rivals, and his challenger role in the field at that time. The structure is still chronological here, but I think in this case it fits the purpose and is the shortest solution. Apart from the two world records in the short program, there is not much to be noted or compared between the two competition segments.
- The other two key event sections summarize and compare his records, achievements, and strengths/weaknesses in the two segments across the full cycle. I think, it is essential to highlight how Hanyu has established himself as a force in the short program in the course of his career. This adds another dimension to the meaning of his 8th place in the SP at the 2022 Olympics. It's one thing to make a costly mistake in the most important competition of the cycle, but it is even more painful, when it happens in your "parade discipline" or program segment. This dimension didn't fully come across in the chronological key event summaries.
I'd like to record a spoken version of the article, before it gets pinned as "Today's featured article" on December 7. So it would be great to get the article polished in time for the recording. Thank you very much in advance! Henni147 (talk) 09:34, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
@Yolo4A4Lo and ErnestKrause: I have finally completed my spoken version of the article and uploaded it here:
It is my first ever recording of a spoken article and English is only my third language, so it would be great to get the file reviewed before adding it to the article. I've already added the review template to the file's talkpage. Here is an overview of the review criteria and also an example how to fill in the template. If there are any things to be corrected, I still have the original file on my PC.
Footnote: if it's too much work for you to check, that's totally fine. The audio file is quite long after all. In that case, I will try to find an experienced user with spoken articles. Henni147 (talk) 16:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- I listened some minutes of it and it sounds good. If I can finish my job fast today, I'll try to review it. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:59, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Excellent, thank you very much. Update: I uploaded a new version of the file and fixed the section numbers as well as the wrong total score of Hanyu at the 2014 Olympics. So for the review, you may use version 2 from the file history. Henni147 (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Only listened up to R&J. The only problem I found is the constant noise in the background starting from Key events before the 2013–14 season. I listened to it with my earphones. It wasn't too distracting at first, but it kept repeating. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:08, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: Can you describe the characteristics of the background noise? Is it like a plopping sound on specific letters like "p" or rather a general rustle or whistle noise? I used earphones too, but my settings were probably different. Henni147 (talk) 10:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- it sounds like breezing air in the background. It comes up early on 01:30, 02:15, 02:41, 02:47, 03:23, and 04:54, but they're not distracting and all short. But this one is pretty long: 06:32, 06:34-06:44, 06:54. I listened it with JBL Endurance Run, the earphones I always use for music. I have another earphones from Daiso, it doesn't that apparent there because the earphones only focus on the vocals. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 01:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: Thank you very much for adding the timestamps. I will try to carefully remove the breath plosives with audacity's effect tools. If that doesn't work, I may re-record the affected section (that's probably faster and better than removing the breezing sounds one by one). I hope, the rest of the recording is fine? Henni147 (talk) 11:02, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- it sounds like breezing air in the background. It comes up early on 01:30, 02:15, 02:41, 02:47, 03:23, and 04:54, but they're not distracting and all short. But this one is pretty long: 06:32, 06:34-06:44, 06:54. I listened it with JBL Endurance Run, the earphones I always use for music. I have another earphones from Daiso, it doesn't that apparent there because the earphones only focus on the vocals. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 01:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- @Yolo4A4Lo: Can you describe the characteristics of the background noise? Is it like a plopping sound on specific letters like "p" or rather a general rustle or whistle noise? I used earphones too, but my settings were probably different. Henni147 (talk) 10:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Only listened up to R&J. The only problem I found is the constant noise in the background starting from Key events before the 2013–14 season. I listened to it with my earphones. It wasn't too distracting at first, but it kept repeating. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:08, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Excellent, thank you very much. Update: I uploaded a new version of the file and fixed the section numbers as well as the wrong total score of Hanyu at the 2014 Olympics. So for the review, you may use version 2 from the file history. Henni147 (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
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