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I'm a student of the Li Family Style (in the UK and other countries). Alot of information is available on www.leefamilystyle.com. I think it at least deserves a mention somewhere, but I'm not going to just edit free-range. Can I have feedback? --Kyle Dantarin 05:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
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I hope no one objects to my adding the ' to T'ai Chi in a few places for consistency throughout the article, and removing some umlautes for the same reason. Forgive for not wishing to add in all the missing umlautes instead. I'm new here and practicing on simple things. Is there any way to get the ' into T'ai in the title of the entry itself? -Jmh123 05:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Howdy, yall. I've never edited a Talk page, so I hope this is harmless.
I study a family variant of Yang style, not the Cheng Man-Ching sort but another, less popular kind, in the U.S. I wouldn't go inserting my own POV, but I wanted to point out another fun weapon: the Wind and Fire Wheels, see e.g. http://www.windfire.com/ (my grand-master's commercial site to sell the book, or just the various sites about the weapon and the videos therefor: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wind+fire+wheels. I personally would not link to a commercial site on the main page, but inclusion of the weapon (as a rare but highly interesting, because double-handed and ring-shaped, tai chi weapon) in addition to the already-included Jian, Dao, Spear, and Fan (among others) might be valuable. - Eh_Nonymous 21:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
The following is a bit POV, but if cleaned up will be more appropriate at the Yang style T'ai Chi Ch'uan page:
"Tchoung Ta-tchen formulated the Dual System of the Older form of Yang style that is traced directly to Yang Chien-hou. Tchoung's system is a modern system based on the older version of Yang Style. Other older forms of Yang style were taught, such as the form taught by Kuo Lien Ying in San Francisco.
Modern "Orthodox" Yang style variations are traced to Yang Cheng-fu. While their is considerable debate on the what is considered real, Fu Zhogwen and Yang Zhendo taught two versions Cheng-fu's form. Other Significant students of Yang Cheng-fu modified his form to their own arts, these masters include Tung Ying-chieh, Cheng Man-ch'ing, Chen Wei-ming, etc.
According to Gu Liuxin Yang Cheng-fu modified the older Yang style by taking out more difficult movements and fast kicks. Older forms such as Tchoung's contain slow and fast strikes and kicks as well as the silk reeling energy often seen in the Older Ch'en forms. Kuo Lien Ying's form contained jump kicks and fast kicks and strikes as well."
Fire Star 19:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, controversial. I can see awkward first sentence is attempt to be NPOV - "known for claims of...". But this effort just is literally not true. Tai Chi is not well know for making claims. It is well known as an effort to aquire health. This STILL might not be true but "known for claims" is a mish-mash sentence contorting things terribly. "Known for X" does not imply the truth of X. "Known for claims of X" implies that something known for being very vocal - something that few would claim Tai Chi in particular is. Folks wants to add NPOV should learn to do something more creative than pasting "claims of" into every sentence.
Hans Joseph Solbrig 19:19, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Dear FireStar,
please tell me why you removed Grandmaster Yang Shou-chung from the family tree without comment (the oldest son of Yang Cheng-fu). As the section is titled family tree the tree should exclude simple students of Yang Chen-fu, as for instance Chen Man-ching who was never his official disciple. It would be correct to create a second tree that shows the lineage of unofficial students.
Please don't have false infomation on your Wiki Page... He did exist, the so called common years that he lived (1247-1447AD) is just a “estimated range”.Chang San-Feng (also known by different spellings ex. Zhang Sanfeng) was the “original creator” of the 13 original movements of Tai Chi Chuan. One just has to look, at the old book of “The Tai Chi Classics”, to see his teachings.
… is also posted in the Wiki Tai Chi page. Posted on Wiki Tai Chi or the above web page does not mean anything. It not only, insults the original master, of all forms Tai Chi Chuan, but it also shows the web site authors lack of knowledge, history, and understanding of the art. I am from direct Yang family lineage
I am bilingual and able to read "Zhang San Feng Quan Ji《张三丰先生全集》,八卷" - which mean "All about Zhang San Feng". Please note: Quan" 全" mean complete and not fist or "拳" . It was initally written by Zhang San Feng and later edited by Li Xi Yue in Qing Dynasty. In the books, nothing had been mentioned about martial art or even the word "fist". Therefore to say that the "original creater" of Tai Chi Chuan is Chang San Feng is not right. So at this point in time, without concrete proof but based on just few hear say or novels or movies is not good enough. If anyone is able to get proper document proofs or records, please approach the Chinese History Authority, they are more than happy to make the history right for all.
Dear Firestar, I spoke to Wikipedia about you censoring World Tai Chi & Qigong Day from the "tai chi" listing "External Links." They said I should speak to you before I file a complaint. I'll repeat me original message to you.
Please look at www.worldtaichiday.org. It is a massive resource for tai chi & qigong medical research, a global directory of free listings for schools and associations, and a vast resource of free online lessons, and tips for new students to get the most out of their instruction. It's health education work has been recognized by the United Nations World Health Organization, and governors of over 16 US states, and mayors and senates worldwide. It represents every major Tai Chi & Qigong style, with educational information on tai chi & qigong, as wells as multitudinous health issue resources and links. I've viewed the other External Links, and do not see why www.worldtaichiday.org has been singled out to be censored from the External Links. Please re add it, or instruct me to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.194 (talk • contribs)
World Tai Chi & Qigong Day supports and lists the work of over 1,500 schools worldwide of all "major" styles. Taoist Tai Chi Society is a large "organization" but not one of the "major styles" of Tai Chi. And in fact Taoist Tai Chi practitioners HAVE participated in World Tai Chi & Qigong Day, and have even listed their contact information at www.worldtaichiday.org in the past. Of course the headquarters hasn't participated (see explanation below), and has tried to order its people not to participate with other tai chi schools worldwide, but in spite of their commands individuals of those schools have participated. World Tai Chi & Qigong Day's global health educational work HAS been officially recognized by governors and senates worldwide. See: http://worldtaichiday.org/WTCProclamations.html
www.worldtaichiday.org is a #1 most popular site for "tai chi medical research" (see google). Our collection of medical research on Tai Chi is unequaled. Which is why World Tai Chi & Qigong Day has been used as a tai chi source by The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Reader's Digest, Parade Magazine, USA Weekend, and over 100 other media worldwide.
We list hundreds of pages of tai chi educational content, yet you won't list us because we have a marketplace. One of your top sites on your External Links, when clicked on says "MERCHANDISE" as the main focus of their sites. Free educational resources are the main focus of www.worldtaichiday.org.
Why would you want to deny readers the resources at www.worldtaichiday.org? If Taoist Tai Chi Society doesn't want to participate in World Tai Chi & Qigong Day, or for that matter not cooperate with ANY tai chi schools or groups outside their organization, that's their choice, but is this wikipedia entry a mouthpiece for the Taoist Tai Chi Society, or is it an informational resource. Some of the organizations who've supported World Tai Chi & Qigong Day's efforts have included: The National Qigong Association American Qigong Association World Qigong Federation Canadian Taiji Federation European Taiji Federation The UK Tai Chi Union The Hong Kong Martial Arts Association . . . and these are just a few, and represent most of the major styles. This doesn't mean every school in those styles, what it means is that most of the major styles worldwide are represented by schools and organizations internationally, many of whom have actively supported and are supported by World Tai Chi & Qigong Day's efforts.
If your above editor, who's obviously from the Taoist Tai Chi Society, wishes to wield censorial control over this topic, I think you've perverted the process that Wikipedia stands for. I spoke with the Taoist Tai Chi Society headquarters several times inviting them to join in our global celebration now in 60 nations annually. The person I spoke with insisted they would not cooperate with ANY Tai Chi schools who charged for their classes, which most teachers worldwide do, with the exception of the Taoist Tai Chi Society. So, my question is, what are they doing on an External Links page with the sites you have listed who have "MERCHANDISE" FRONT AND CENTER, on their home sign on page you have a direct link to?
And your arguments above throw out accusations, such as "The claims about the UNWHO, governers, mayors and senates (worldwide? ROTFL) is laughable in that they would never support a website. Some support of tai chi in general terms maybe, but only if political advantage could be had from it." In fact, World Tai Chi & Qigong Day has been officially proclaimed by over 16 governors, state senates and assemblies, including New York and California, and the national Senate of Puerto Rico, as well as mayors in many countries. It is possible that leaders endorse events that have intrinsic educational value that will uplift their society, and not necessarily because of "only political advantage." Is this the level of discourse that Wikipedia accepts from its editors? Is the Wikepedia editors group for "tai chi" okay with such cynical outbursts that paint a prejudiced reality, rather than looking at the FACTS that World Tai Chi & Qigong Day's health education efforts have been officially proclaimed by many officials worldwide.
Apparently the editors here just make up facts that are convenient to their "agenda" of limiting what Wikipedia readers read, to organizations that they are obviously aligned with, and wish to exclude valuable content based on personal, and prejudices not based on factual reality.
Again, I request that http://www.worldtaichiday.org be added to the external links for Tai Chi at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.194 (talk • contribs)
Pubmed.gov does not provide all the research we have accumulated on Tai Chi, check it out. Our focus for years has been tai chi research. It is our specialty. www.worldtaichiday.org has vast resources on "Tai Chi and Traditional Chinese Medicine" and "Tai Chi for maladies or life issues," "tutorials that explain the premise of Qi, via video, text, and audio, and video exhibitions of various styles," so readers can see with their eyes that there are many styles done in various ways. www.worldtaichiday.org is a valuable resource for Wikipedia readers. It would be unfortunate to deny this of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.194 (talk • contribs)
Greetings again, everyone. I'd just like to post a gentle reminder about Wikipedia's assume good faith policy when it comes to content disputes. We can question the structure or content of another's arguments but we shouldn't make personal comments about other editors themselves. We haven't crossed the line yet into WP:Civility issues, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Regards, --Fire Star 16:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
However, to the point again, www.worldtaichiday.org is a vastly informative site regarding tai chi, it's uses worldwide in business, healthcare, penal, and drug rehabilitation, etc. It offers free listings to tai chi & qigong schools worldwide of all styles, and has web links to all those schools by locality, providing readers with an "unequaled" database of contact information for public schools. World Tai Chi & Qigong Day charges no dues, or advertising fees, and has no commercial stake in those schools, it only seeks to help people worldwide find contact information that empowers them to search for schools in their areas.
Our other educational resources, particularly medical research on tai chi, are also "unequaled" highly useful referenced resources for readers to use. Our "tai chi & acupuncture" and "tai chi & oriental medicine" and other educational sections are also unique contributions to understanding the ancient health sciences of tai chi & qigong.
These would make http://www.worldtaichiday.org a valuable resource to Wikipedia readers, and an excellent addition to the External Links section for Tai Chi. Respectfully, 65.27.8.194 19:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC) Bill Douglas, World Tai Chi & Qigong
I think that the best way to address the World T'ai Chi website issue is to actually write a Wikipedia article about the event itself at World Tai Chi and Qigong Day. I am convinced it is a notable enough subject to justify that. We could recount the history of the event, list the rationale for it, level of participation and local govt. cooperation, etc. in the article. We would be justified in having a prominent link to the World T'ai Chi day in its own article and also have the article linked to the main Tai Chi Chuan article. The article itself doesn't have to be very long, and we can always expand it later. --Fire Star 23:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I have edited the T'ai Chi page to include some vital information to everyone which has somehow been omitted. T'ai Chi is firmly based on Taoist philosophy, ask anyone, and yet it didn't even get a mention, ridiculous. Also it is not a physical form of exercise but is designed to develop Chi or internal energy, again no mention at all hardly. Now I have removed all that silly lineage stuff, what an insult to any genuine Taoist and completely irrelevant to most readers, simply spam. Does anyone seriously think any of this lineage rubbish is of any interest whatsoever to anyone, as if Yang style and the Chen Village story was anything but a myth, quite absurd. Let me guess, some Yang style idiot put this nonsense up. Taoism is not about ancestor worship or lineage, that's Confucianism. I have studied T'ai Chi for almost twenty five years and I was stunned at these glaring omissions, if you revise this page please make sure you include something on these topics and do something to stop the Yang Style crowd putting their stupid lineage documents up, it's an outrage! --Chuangzu 20:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
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