Talk:Poutine/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Poutine. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

I do not think this coincidence in spellings matters, however, an IP does. I would like other thoughts, and I hope the IP comes here to discuss it. On another note, I am not sure the whole poutine in politics stuff is even worth mentioning, but that is another matter. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I'm the IP. I wouldn't have thought it mattered either, except that the first time I saw "poutine" mentioned I thought that it was a reference to the Russian president, and came here for information. Had there not been a "poutine in politics" section I would not have added that little fact. Nevertheless, for any French person who has not eaten poutine, "Poutine" is one thing and one thing only - the name of the President of Russia. (-Okay, so I was wrong about that too - in Provençal French it means the young of certain fish.88.120.130.106 (talk)) Perhaps someone else has an opinion... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.120.130.106 (talk) 14:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've queried the editorial community over at the French Poutine page as to whether they feel that English-speaking people need to know the fact that "Poutine" is the French spelling of "Putin." Even if positive opinions come in from speakers of both languages, however, I won't add it back until I have your authorization.88.120.130.106 (talk) 15:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It is a question of consensus actually, not anyone having any authority. What they do at the French wikipedia has no affect on us here, separate projects. Dbrodbeck (talk) 16:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Je ne crois pas que c'est important. I do not think it is important. --UnQuébécois (talk) 03:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Dbrodbeck: Please explain the procedure for additions to an existing article, or point me to whatever I should read before attempting to make an addition. If I understand correctly, I need to go to the Talk section and propose the addition before making it? And obtain a consensus? Is there a single individual or a group of individuals who need to comprise that consensus?

My purpose in querying the French-language community is not to find out what their practice is regarding additions. Their practice of course has no affect on us here. My purpose is to find out whether they agree that the fact that "Poutine" is the name of Vladimir Putin in French might be of interest to English speakers reading about the reaction of a French-speaking audience to George Bush's thinking that Poutine was the Prime Minister of Canada. In my opinion, that fact - known to French speakers but not to English speakers - that Poutine is the Russian president has bearing on the reaction of the audience as described in the article.88.120.130.106 (talk) 07:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.120.130.106 (talk) 05:59, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

There are, for sure, a lot of things to learn about how wp works. If what you had added before was no big deal it would probably not have been reverted. You can see here from the discussion 2 editors think it is irrelevant and a third reverted you yesterday. All of us together come to a consensus that is how it works. The Bush incident is covered here, though, as I noted, I think it is really irrelevant as well. Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:40, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that it is irrelevant. So we have a consensus. Did the third editor you mention consult with you before removing my addition? If so, then we have to wait for his/her agreement before removing the entire "Poutine and politics" section? Or can we simply go ahead and delete it? The reason I ask is that I saw no comments by any editor until well after my addition was deleted for the second time, and therefore can't see how a consensus could have been reached. My original addition was deleted barely five minutes after I first posted it. On the other hand, there is (or was) a consensus (or so it seemed to me) that the fact that "Poutine" is Vladimir Putin _should_ be left in (see the "Vladimir jokes" section of this Talk page).88.120.130.106 (talk) 12:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC) I'm beginning to think that what this is really about is authority rather than consensus... So be it.Lestrad (talk) 16:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of Canada is primarily English speaking, and just know chip wagons as chip wagons. I suggest "in Quebec" Should be added to clarify, as it is in the previous statement, just in case. Experienced as living in Canada for 21 years, and never heard a chip wagon get called that, even living in Ottawa most of the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.100.55 (talk) 01:26, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

This article includes them, but the article on the UK says they are not. Oh well, what's a Wikipedia without a few comfortable contradictions? Snezzy (talk) 11:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

You could change it. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:24, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

The article says: " is a typical Canadian dish (originally from Quebec)". I have to disagree with this. I live in Mississauga (Canada's 6th largest city, might I add) and Poutine is very hard to find. I've been in many cities throughout Canada (almost all main cities in every province except the Maritimes) and poutine is always hard to find. This contradicts the definition of "typical", which is generally taken to be "Normal, average; to be expected." Therefore, Poutine is NOT a typical Canadian dish, but is a typical Quebecer dish which is gaining popularity in the rest of Canada (Poutine is more easily found in Toronto and Ottawa due to proximity). I dare anyone to find a city, however small, in Quebec that doesn't offer Poutine. The same cannot be said with the rest of Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.21.198.66 (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

You can get it at Burger King and A and W and New York Fries, hardly a niche thing. As well, if you google 'poutine mississauga' you will find a number of restaurants that serve it. Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Here is a recent news article, for example, calling it 'Canadian' . Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

'As any red blooded Canadian knows.....' . Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Everyone knows about Burgers in China, it still doesn't make it a typical Chinese dish. I agree with you that Poutine is well known throughout Canada, but it is not available throughout Canada, which is what the word "typical" means. We would need to find a different word.

You can find burgers at every McDonalds in China, that doesn't make the burger a typical Chinese dish. While poutine is certainly available in large cities, it is not common, hence not typical. In Quebec, any restaurant that serves fries (pubs, bars, restaurants, fast food shacks, food trucks, etc.) will generally servce poutine, it is expected (which is part of the definition of Typical). Poutine is typical in Quebec as it is available in every city (I have yet to find an exception). Here in Ontario you can only find it in large cities or cities close to the border of Quebec. In Edmonton, is was a very niche thing, but available. It was nowhere to be found outside of the city, and hence, is not a typical Canadian dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.21.198.66 (talk) 15:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I live 600 km from the Quebec border and can find it many restaurants, bars etc. I am not denying it is from QC originally, and that it is more common there, but, it is indeed Canadian, and pretty common, and refered to in sources as Canadian. Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The 'tine is found across this nation, as this West-Coast poutine addict's gut can attest to. I've had it in dusty diners in Cache Creek, upscale nooks in Gastown, in work camps in Northern Alberta. The fast food chains all have it (except McDo's - they flirted with it a while back, but cut it during a fit of health consciousness). The Interior (Talk) 15:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It's hard to define whether or not something is typical as it is somewhat subjective, but according to the definition of typical, that is my interpretation. "To be expected", I don't go into restaurants expecting to see Poutine on the menu when in Alberta, but I generally do when traveling in Quebec. I'm arguing the choice of words here, nothing else. (It's a good thing Mcdonald's stopped offering poutine, as it was disgusting!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.21.198.66 (talk) 17:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

True on the McDonald's poot - it was bad news. How about "common" as a replacement? Both are subjective, but perhaps common is a bit more accurate than typical. The Interior (Talk) 17:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

That sounds good. I might add that it is "typical" in eastern Canada (since it is readily available in the Toronto and Ottawa regions, but that again is very subjective). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.21.198.66 (talk) 18:19, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Dbrodbeck, how do feel about that change? The Interior (Talk) 18:34, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Just taking out 'typical' is fine by me. 'Common' is also ok. Dbrodbeck (talk) 18:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Poutine can now be found in USA. Is it "a typical North American dish"? No. Poutine has been a popular fast food dish in Quebec and has been part of the Quebec culture since the 1960s. It started to appear in the rest of Canada in the 2000s. I have a hard time seeing how someone can describe it as a canadian dish... You don't see any mention of it being a canadian dish in the French wikipedia. Quebecers don't refer to it as "canadian". As a reference, a discussion on this precise topic on French CBC. ^[1]Eltremblayo (talk) 06:54, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I think we currently have a pretty nice consensus here, which we can see can be backed by references. What happens on the French wikipedia is immaterial. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Consensus? References identifying poutine as a québécois dish ^[2](...mets national des québécois?)^[3] (Quebec's signature food)^[4] (A gloppy, caloric layering of French fries, fresh cheese curds and gravy, poutine goes deep into the Quebequois psyche. Somehow, Quebec’s rural roots, its split identity... ...and its earthy sense of humor are all embodied by its unofficial dish.)^[5] (Quebec's signature dish)

Moreover, I believe identifying poutine as "Québécois dish" is more accurate, more precise and straight to the point instead of using the vague expression "Canadian dish (originally from Quebec)". Eltremblayo (talk) 13:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

There are a number of references above calling it Canadian. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:48, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

...and a number of references calling in Québécois. It has been the Québécois signature dish for the last 50 years. It's part of Québec culture, deeply entrenched, available in every single fast-food joint of Québec. A book has been written solely on the dish explaining the meal and its relation to the Québécois psyche ^[6]. Moreso I'm Québécois and I've never heard any fellow Québécois refer to it as "Canadian"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eltremblayo (talk • contribs) 14:30, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:CONSENSUS. What you and 'your fellow Quebecois' refer to it as is frankly unimportant. We have references going both ways, which I think had lead to a nice compromise. Remember, this is not an encyclopedia just for Canada, it is read by people the world over. Finally, don't edit war. — Preceding comment added by Dbrodbeck (talk • contribs) 16:11, 1 August 2013‎ (UTC)

My bad. But I still hold my views. Poutine has been identified as Québécois since the 1960s. The identification of poutine as a Canadian dish is really recent (a couple years or so) and is still controversial^[7]. The consensus you are refering to is akin to a consensus of two Frenchmen deciding Bruschetta is first and foremost a European dish instead of an Italian one. Yes poutine is Canadian in the general sense, but it's not its identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eltremblayo (talk • contribs) 13:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Eltremblayo (talk) 13:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Quebec is still a part of Canada as of today, so "Québécois" and "Canadian" are not mutually exclusive terms. Bearcat (talk) 01:30, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, and, calling other editors neocolonialists is a violation of AGF. Anyway, I think the way it was before the edit warring started was a fine compromise. Dbrodbeck (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

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The images show big heaping plates of poutine, so it seems like using a fork would make a mess, but eating by hand would also be messy. How is it typically eaten? With fork? Knife? The article offers no indication. 76.181.233.121 (talk) 23:41, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Never had poutine? There's no other way to eat it besides with a fork. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:49, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay I haven't lived everywhere in the UK but I've never come across CC&G listed in a british chippy. I've never seen cheese be an issue anywhere except on a [cheese]burger. This part should be re-edited. Chips and gravy, definitely, just not the cheese. If there is some region (say the NE) that does feature this a lot, someone should make a note, but it is not a general thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.62.199.254 (talk) 15:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, you never see Chips, Cheese and Gravy in the UK. Chips & Gravy is available in Fish & Chip shops, and you sometimes get Cheesy Chips or Cheesy Fries (i.e. chips topped with grated mild cheddar) in pubs serving food, but I've never seen all three ingredients together. Phosph (talk) 10:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)Phosph.

Never heard of it either. This is getting removed. You get chips and gravy in the North of England (in the South, they will look at you like you are insane) and sometimes cheese with chips in a pub but "CC&G" doesn't exist.GordyB (talk) 22:02, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me but I'm from the North of England and I know lots of places that sell Chips, CHEESE, and Gravy (yes, that's right, cheese too). Very common in Cumbria. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.208.2.114 (talk) 10:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Chips, cheese and gravy is a semi-common takeaway order in Middlesbrough.

I have also had chips, cheese and gravy on Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.163.30 (talk) 23:29, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

It is a common school canteen food in the North West (I live in Blackpool), cheese and gravy being added to chips at nominal cost. As such, many chip-shops also offer this as an option because many people are used to it from school. It is certainly untrue to claim it 'doesn't exist' as some here say. Also, the article claims it as a national dish of the Isle of Man, then also claims it's 'uniqueness throughout the UK' a comment that makes no sense. I suggest the entry just says something like 'In some areas of the northern UK and Isle Of Man, "Chips,Cheese and Gravy" is a popular dish. It is sold in school canteens and fish and chip shops.'

I've never eaten chips, cheese & gravy, but I have seen it served in northern England. I've edited the paragraph to reflect majority observations above, but we need some evidence of the Manx claim. Dbfirs 15:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Whether Chips, cheese and gravy is served in the UK is open then (personally I've never seen it) but the statement ″In the United Kingdom and Isle of Man (particularly the north of England and Scotland), a remarkably similar dish is called chips, cheese and gravy.″ is not supported by the source link ′http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22419364′ which talks about a US soft drinks company for a product produced and served in the US (not the UK). Candy (talk) 01:24, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

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why has "cheese fries" and "disco fries" been redirected here!? just because they involve french fries with cheese does not mean that they are poutine, they are very different. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.85.69.108 (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

They also long predate "poutine". But it was a gross food for old men until it started getting sold with a french name around 10 years ago, thus becoming popukar and acceptable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:C6D0:E700:13B:B832:476C:B75E (talk) 02:13, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

I have twice reverted this addition and explained to the editor in question needs a source. I don't think it is in the source listed. I invite the editor to discuss it here, and to find a source. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:30, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't doubt someone, somewhere put hot dogs on his poutine, possibly while drunk, but unless there are sources, it's not a thing. Jonathunder (talk) 16:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

[1] [1]
http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/medium_large/2011-2012/chronique.asp?idChronique=256374

[2] [2]
http://www.ledevoir.com/societe/actualites-en-societe/161707/le-quebec-raconte-par-sa-poutine

[3] [3]
http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/top-10/foods-to-eat-in-quebec/

[4] [4]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/23/dining/23pout.html?_r=0

[5] [5]
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=a565374d-3ec1-4dff-8711-35c03e81a6f5

[6] [6]
http://www.archambault.ca/theoret-charlesalexandre-maudite-poutine-ACH002041817-fr-pr

[7] [7]
http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/medium_large/2011-2012/chronique.asp?idChronique=256374

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

Talk:Poutine/Archive 2

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Talk:Poutine/Archive 2

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Poutine and Putin

Chip Wagons Commonly known as cabanes à patates

Isle of Man & Guernsey in the United Kingdom?

debate on definition

External links modified

External links modified

How do you eat it?

CC&G in the UK?

External links modified

cheese fries/disco fries

Hot dog slices

Poutine and Putin

Chip Wagons Commonly known as cabanes à patates

Isle of Man &amp; Guernsey in the United Kingdom?

debate on definition

External links modified

External links modified

How do you eat it?

CC&amp;G in the UK?

External links modified

cheese fries/disco fries

Hot dog slices

Isle of Man & Guernsey in the United Kingdom?

CC&G in the UK?