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This is an archive of past discussions about Columbia University. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Barnard College is listed in the undergraduate schools section as of it were a school of Columbia, when in fact it is an affiliate. Upon editing this, one of the page administrators reverted my edit saying, correctly, that Teachers College is also an affiliate. Therefore both Barnard and Teachers College should be referenced as Columbia affiliates. This is shown in the Columbia website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoblesXIV (talk • contribs) 21:56, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
They both receive Columbia degrees - therefore, they are part of the University. The University President, Lee Bollinger, signs the diplomas. Malik Shabazz is right, nobody outside of Morningside Heights gives a damn. If Barnard and TC people want to call themselves Columbia alumni (which they are, they can join the Columbia Alumni Association) so be it. Good grief people, just give it a rest!2601:192:4C80:1BDD:CD43:1150:4E09:6A37 (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
The Columbia University handbook specifically states that the bachelor's degrees conferred upon by the Columbia University Board of Trustees to Barnard students "Barnard College: to prescribe the manner in which the degree of bachelor of arts conferred upon graduates of Barnard College shall be maintained at all times as a degree of equal value with the degree of bachelor of arts conferred upon the graduates of Columbia College" (Under "Charters and Statues" in the Office of the Secretary of official Columbia University documents; most recent amendment was June 2017). Additionally, yes, they are Columbia alumni because they can join the Columbia Alumni Association (some of them are not just members but officers of the association), they are recognized by Columbia 250 (which is the Columbia University site highlighting accomplishments of CU alumni), and they are eligible to win the Columbia Alumni Medal for distinguished contribution to the global community by an alum or alumnae of Columbia University. Both Barnard and Teachers College students are eligible for all of these benefits. Get your facts straight. And follow the Wiki guidelines on getting a consensus approval before making edits on them main article page or you are at risk of being banned from Wikipedia. This is still in the Talk page with dispute, thus, you are breaching rules by making edits on your own whim. 2603:3005:5002:6000:E9C3:69A:5E8E:9CAE (talk) 14:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Bluemu314 All of the points you made doesn't disprove or make any less true what the IP user said. You're just jumping into conclusions pointing fingers now. The degree, docs, and websites validate the IP user's point. 2600:1000:B027:23A:C9EA:E937:2302:1AFB (talk) 18:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
FYI: Bluemu314 in all likelihood is sock of banned prolific socker Hellishscrubber. The newly created accounts fifth or sixth edit summary said like his sock "when you make claims find a secondary source" showing good knowledge about wiki, and then immediately went to reinstate the edits of his banned sock puppet Hellishscrubber at NYU and other articles. The Hellishscrubber account added puffery to Columbia University while removing sourced contents from its peers to make them look bad. As evident from his edits and comment in the "Extreme Wikipuffery" section of this page, Bluemu314 intention is exactly the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.122.88.235 (talk) 21:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
@Bbb23:
The Columbia webpage lists Barnard, Teachers College, JTS and UTS as affiliates of the University. To refer to any of them as just another Columbia school is an inaccuracy, whether or not anyone gives a damn about this matter. Since when did giving a damn about the relevance of certain facts diminish the importance of stating them correctly? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoblesXIV (talk • contribs) 21:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
The article should not replace facts with what people think or feel. Yes, probably nobody outside of morningside gives a damn, but that does not justify listing inaccurate information. Some Columbia students/alums are too insecure and some Barnard students/alums struggle with their unique bold beautiful identity. Resulting in this mockery of a talk page. Why did the IP user feel the need to mention the word 'inferior' when someone else mentioned 'affiliate'? Why even is that ever a comparison and why is there such a need for validation on either side? As for the article, affiliates institutions and undergraduate schools are not the same. The very definition of an undergraduate school is different from an independent institution or a medical/law school etc. The IP user tries to validate his/her/their point by giving a url that lists 20 results, but only 3 are undergraduate schools of columbia, CC, SEAS, GS - clearly known for decades by hundreds of thousands of people. Written in Bold words in the university's constitution and noted here (https://www.columbia.edu/content/academics) ["These include three undergraduate schools, thirteen graduate and professional schools, a world-renowned medical center, four affiliated colleges and seminaries"]. Altering this FACT is not only wrong and magnifies insecurity, but a slap in the face of all those who fought for decades to incorporate women into the university before establishing Barnard. It is not about the quality, degree or prestige, it is about facts and the fact is clearly written for the public to see. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nochorus (talk • contribs) 22:18, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
The original argument was to take off "(affiliate)" but was not to take off the schools completely. When we created the drop down menu for the undergraduate schools, the administrators agreed that the best course of option was to include "all or nothing" as in all affiliates are either taken off or added on. The discussion was that, as you stated, "(affiliate)" is to be removed because some users felt that it isolated those members as part of the Columbia community. The other discussion was whether to do "all" or "nothing." The agreement was reached to include "all" because it is the most consistent with primary sources, namely, the charters and statues from the Board of Trustees of Columbia University.
Even more so, Teachers College varies from other affiliates in that the college awards Ph.Ds. These Ph.Ds are actually conferred by the Columbia Graduate School of Arts & Sciences as a doctorate in education (even though the academic syllabus and research is done at TC). Furthermore, Teachers College is not only a Faculty unit of Education (like Barnard the JTS), but it is an official Department of the University as the Department of Education (as cited again, in BOTH the faculty handbook and the Articles of Incorporation amendments) because no other school in the Columbia umbrella awards degrees in education. Lastly, Teachers College is governed by the Committee on the Master of Arts in Education, which other affiliates are not. This committee is precisely what allows TC to award education degree under the Columbia name (other affiliates do not have this because they have repeated subjects that is also represented in the College, i.e. BA in Sociology at Barnard vs BA in Sociology at Columbia College). We cannot keep having the same debate over and over and over again. This has been happening for a few years now and new editors keep coming in attempting to change it. This edit should be lockedPebblefire (talk) 11:35, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
I completely agree with my friends from TC and BC that they should be included in the list but their status as affiliates should also be indicated. Why hide? This should also anger some TC and BC students because they have pride in their schools.--OneColumbia (talk) 11:39, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
And if we're adding TC and BC what about JTS and UTS? Either way, we have to be impartial here.--OneColumbia (talk) 11:45, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
I've also reviewed past discussions by admins and most of them, if not all admins involved in the discussion, agree that we should list TC as an affiliate. If it's an apple, we write apple. If it's an orange, we write orange. It doesn't get easier than that.--OneColumbia (talk) 11:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
I share the view that Barnard College and Teachers College are indicated as affiliates on Columbia U website (including Columbia Alumni Association website) and should be indicated as such in the article. --HamiltonProject (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Admin regentspark and other users including ABCDE22 and OneColumbia have correctly argued that Teachers College and Barnard College are affiliates of Columbia. I am asking for a consensus to settle this issue once and for all. --HamiltonProject (talk) 08:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
At least 7 official university documents and websites confirm that Teachers College is an affiliate school.
--HamiltonProject (talk) 16:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Affiliate doesn’t mean non-affiliate when you want it to... once again, the argument is not over whether TC is an affiliate(it is) it’s whether it is appropriate to put the word “affiliate” next to TC in the grad school listing, which to me is clearly redundant and confusing... to avoid confusion the relationship between TC and CU should be fully and accurately described in the body but the grad school listing should be left alone... CUfiveo (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
That analogy is weak and the "official" sources you cite aren't official or correct... your website isn't more official than the official Statues and Charters of CU which clearly state TC graduates get CU diplomas... TC should definitely not get lumped in with JTS or UTS or even Barnard, the relationship between Columbia and them are so much different. TC is an official grad school and can only give out CU diplomas while JTS offers non-Columbia degree programs with only one joint degree program... UTS doesn’t offer any programs leading to a Columbia University diploma... TC’s President is a CU dean... TC is on another level than those seminary schools and it should be reflected in the listing... TC is the official grad school of education of CU it shouldn't have the word "affiliate" redundantly shoved next to it, rather you should fully describe the relationship in the body
PS as was stated before the word "affiliate" doesn't mean "non-affiliate"... you keep forgetting CUfiveo (talk) 19:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
OU STILL DONT GET THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD "AFFILIATE" STOP EDITING UNTIL YOU DO... (check out page 97 for TC degree/diploma info: S243: "The University will confer appropriate degrees and diplomas upon students... the college shall grant no degrees or diplomas." https://secretary.columbia.edu/files/secretary/university_charters_and_statutes/University%20Charters%20and%20Statutes_June%202013.pdf) Barnard only gives out bachelor degrees and negotiated their relationship with CU completely separate from TC... TC exclusively grants CU graduate degrees as the official graduate school of education, the business school exclusively grants CU graduate degrees too, thus they both should be listed together in the grad school listings CUfiveo (talk) 21:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
At first, I would like to thank User: HamiltonProject for his/her/they wise edit before the last edit where he/she/they has mentioned about board of trustee and financial policy, I think it has already resolved the problem. The coming to the topic of user: CUfivio; I am really yet to get this new topic I mean Teachers College own website mention it as affiliate so why we should not mention that? https://www.tc.columbia.edu/student-handbook/about-tc/#:~:text=Teachers%20College%20became%20affiliated%20with,individuals%20from%20around%20the%20world. Besides Columbia Uni mention it as its affiliate besides Barnard and other affiliate (see the underneath of official Columbia website where the university list its school). When Columbia says its not affiliate rather then official grad school which is echoed by Teacher's College then who we are not to mention that? ABCDE22 (talk) 11:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
User: ABCDE22 the Handbook makes it clear "The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education." http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html... the problem is with the word "affiliate", it seems like a good number of users still think it means "non-affiliate" for some reason...
CUfiveo (talk) 12:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
User:CUfiveo, yes they serve under Department of Education just like Barnard also a faculty of the CU but that does not change the status and I really fail to understand why are you repeating that we think that "affiliate are not affiliate"!! The difference between official school and affiliate school are done by Columbia's own website. We have nothing to do about it. Bests ABCDE22 (talk) 13:13, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Status? Columbia's own website needs to fix that then... they are lumping a grad school that can only grant CU graduate degrees with schools that can't even grant a CU degree period and an undergraduate institution... look up the definition of affiliate it means member not non-member CUfiveo (talk) 13:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
At least you two admit to not knowing what "affiliate" means... it would help if you did because you are perpetuating a confusing redundancy with the whole "affiliate" label in the grad school listing... just because the Columbia website you cite is wrong or corrupt doesn't mean we can't get it right on wiki... how else is an affiliate/official school determined other than the fact they give out CU degrees exclusively? If that isn't what determines it shouldn't it? Either way the Handbook makes it clear "The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education." http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html CUfiveo (talk) 16:26, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT TC ISNT AN AFFILIATE (it's whether we should be shoving the word "affiliate" behind TC's wiki grad school listing)... At least you two admit to brainlessly perpetuating a confusing redundancy... you guys really think you should be editing when you have such a thin grasp on the English language, especially the specific word you keep editing? It's pretty obvious why this issue keeps coming up (besides the obvious lack of understanding of the word being used) and it's because of ignorant editors that fail to realize their "official" sources (7 random university websites, not official documents) are not more official than the official Columbia Handbook/Charters and Statutes. TC is in the type of relationship it is with CU because they had so much more negotiating power at the time they were able to get their unique financial situation (CU was desperate to have a complete university at the time, especially a College of Education, the first one ever mind you, so they bent)... CUfiveo (talk) 04:37, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Six other sources confirming what? Yes TC is an "affiliate" of CU but that means "part of" or "member", not "non-member" the way you use it... being financially independent proves how superior TC was to CU when they negotiated the affiliation (TC's international reputation is still much higher than CU's even today FYI) so it doesnt matter who TC is listed with on the bottom of a random University webpage it doesn't change that ALL TC graduates get CU graduate degrees (which is made clear in the official Charters and Statutes)... the OPIR website for some reason doesn't list TC, that doesn't mean TC grads don't get CU degrees, it means the OPIR is either corrupt or inept. I agree, make sure you clearly, accurately and fully describe TC and CU's relationship in the body instead of shoving it into the grad school listing which is unencyclopedic... CUfiveo (talk) 08:47, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
People are concerned when you label TC with "affiliate" in the college/grad school list because TC's presence there already implies that it is an affiliate. It's redundant, confusing, and UNNECESSARY... and who is clinging to who? TC is CU! Your source is an alumni website not an official document and is wrong if they say only TC degrees conferred by the GSAS are Columbia degrees. Look at the official Charters and Statutes, ALL TC GRADS GET CU DEGREES, S243: "The University will confer appropriate degrees and diplomas upon students... the college shall grant no degrees or diplomas." As you say the financial structure and governance structure are unique to TC, but why do you have to mention that in the college/school listing and not the body? What you are doing is adding confusion when it's unnecessary. The fact TC grads get CU degrees makes them MORE of an affiliate, the fact TC is financially separate and has its own governance are things that make it LESS of an affiliate. I think you are starting to get it, affiliates/members SHOULD be determined by whether they exclusively give out CU degrees... you think readers are really that concerned about whether their tuition money inevitably goes to TC versus CU when they are getting a CU diploma regardless? CUfiveo (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Why are you so desperate to make it seem like TC isn't an official faculty? Your sources are weak. Affiliate designation means member not nonmember remember. Anyways, the way CU is structured officially is technically by 20 faculties (TC being one of them) and 78 departments of instruction, not specifically grad schools and undergraduate schools as listed in wiki. The Handbook makes it clear "The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education." http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html CUfiveo (talk) 17:27, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
What justification would you have for removing TC from the list? I should redo the entire list altogether and set it up according to the Columbia Handbook with faculties and departments of instruction not grad schools and undergraduate schools. Who or what department is technically designating schools as affiliates/members anyways? The person who designs and decides the wording on a website isn't necessarily anyone official... CUfiveo (talk) 18:08, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
TC was around before CU, the other schools started in the University. CU wanted TC bad... the affiliation agreement is a result of CU being inferior to TC and having to give up any financial benefits they'd get from TC just so TC would become a part of the University and increase CU's reputation... affiliate designation means you are a member, you have a lot of trouble with this concept... CUfiveo (talk) 18:50, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
You are right, it is more accurate to say TC started separate rather than before... TC isn't given the affiliate designation by CU, CU doesn't structure itself technically that way... that's just how someone decided to word it and lay it out on the website... it's pretty obvious TC makes more sense being grouped with the grad schools rather the random schools that are listed as affiliates which should prob be eliminated altogether while adding a seminary section to the list and BC to the right section CUfiveo (talk) 19:46, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
The "affiliate designation" is more a description that the school is part of the University than anything official... afilliate does not mean partial-affiliate or nonaffiliate, you really have to try to understand this because you keep reverting to the same bs... the fact the word affiliate is so problematic period is proof it's best to be avoided from now on. The controversy stems from a poorly done Columbia website directory/list that unnecessarily and unofficially made up an affiliate category that doesn't make sense and should be eliminated... each school has a different situation that should be fully described in the body not labeled affiliate on a list. CU is divided officially into faculties and departments in the Handbook and unofficially into grad schools and undergraduate schools on the website/wiki for some reason, are you going to fix that? The only reason TC was favored with a unique financial/afilliate situation is because it had a superior negotiating position and because it started separate from CU and had to merge... the explanation needs to go in the body to avoid making the wiki list redundant, confusing and unencyclopedic. If you are serious about following official documents to avoid subjectivity start citing the Handbook/Charters and Statutes not random University websites' wording... CUfiveo (talk) 08:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
--HamiltonProject (talk) 10:49, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Directly from the Handbook:
Academic Structure of the University The basic organizing units of the University are its 20 Faculties and 78 departments of instruction. The Faculties are commonly referred to as schools or colleges, depending upon historical circumstances. However, the terms are not synonymous, since some schools and colleges are units within larger Faculties. Academic activity is also conducted through administrative boards, institutes, interdepartmental programs, centers, and laboratories.
The relationship between Faculties and departments is a complex one. In general, Faculties are responsible for curricular programs leading to degrees and certificates, while departments provide the instruction required by those programs. The focus of some Faculties is sufficiently limited that they are simultaneously departments, while others draw on many departments to meet their instructional needs. Conversely, some departments are part of more than one Faculty.
Two affiliated institutions – Barnard College and Teachers College – are also Faculties of the University.
The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html
CUfiveo (talk) 15:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Sorry to bother you again, ABCDE22. This is getting out of hand because CUfiveo is doing conflict of interest editing (user admits he/she was accepted to Teachers College), IP socking, edit-warring (doing something like 6rr) and plagiarism (or copyvio). After multiple users pointed this out, now he/she is doing a quick fix of a 4th grader trying to hide plagiarism by paraphrasing (which is obviously still plagiarism). I hope Teachers College teaches him/her about academic writing in the meantime but unfortunately it looks like we are not dealing with someone who we can have a constructive discussion; I wanted to have your thoughts going forward. Best, HamiltonProject --HamiltonProject (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
@HamiltonProject then we need to inform admin regarding this. I and you can't handle this. ABCDE22 (talk) 05:26, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Chill out dude! I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings when I commented on your understanding of English, but it is a legitimate point... also the threat was to make the page more official/accurate, but less like you want it, listing faculties instead of schools like the Handbook describes, so don't take it personally... CUfiveo (talk) 14:04, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Besides the rampant strawmen arguments you pose (you are constantly lying about me on here, please stop) your biggest issue is that you think the wording on random websites is more legit than official University documents like the Handbook and the official Charters and Statutes... CUfiveo (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
HamiltonProject you said it on your talk page: "You can argue that Columbia University's Office of Planning and Institutional Research is inept but we have 7 official documents..." CUfiveo (talk) 15:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
We agree what makes TC unique is they are financially independent and have their own administration... so do you think readers looking at the list need to be alerted of that right there and with just the problematic word "affiliate"... putting that word there just creates confusion especially because it is redundant since TC's presence in the list already implies it's an affiliate(aka member)... it makes sense to note the situation in the body not the list since readers looking at the list care more about if they are getting a CU diploma(which all TC grad are granted) rather where their money inevitably ends up or who does the paperwork... CUfiveo (talk) 15:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
The Handbook says Columbia is officially divided into Faculties NOT ugrad/grad/affiliate schools... CUfiveo (talk) 18:02, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
--HamiltonProject (talk) 18:25, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Why in the list and not in the body? Putting it in the list creates confusion... the alumni/OPIR websites erroneous and bizarrely don't list TC degrees, this is either a product of corruption or ineptitude but either way they are wrong about TC (the official Charters and Statutes make it clear all TC grads get CU diplomas). https://secretary.columbia.edu/files/secretary/university_charters_and_statutes/University%20Charters%20and%20Statutes_June%202013.pdf
CU is officially divided into Faculties and TC is officially one of them, full stop.
Directly from the Handbook:
Academic Structure of the University The basic organizing units of the University are its 20 Faculties and 78 departments of instruction. The Faculties are commonly referred to as schools or colleges, depending upon historical circumstances. However, the terms are not synonymous, since some schools and colleges are units within larger Faculties. Academic activity is also conducted through administrative boards, institutes, interdepartmental programs, centers, and laboratories.
The relationship between Faculties and departments is a complex one. In general, Faculties are responsible for curricular programs leading to degrees and certificates, while departments provide the instruction required by those programs. The focus of some Faculties is sufficiently limited that they are simultaneously departments, while others draw on many departments to meet their instructional needs. Conversely, some departments are part of more than one Faculty.
Two affiliated institutions – Barnard College and Teachers College – are also Faculties of the University.
The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html CUfiveo (talk) 18:44, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
I can barely understand you, are you sure you should be editing? Either way, there is no good reason to list "affiliate" next to TC in the grad school listing... Columbia is officially divided into 20 Faculties and TC is one of them... CUfiveo (talk) 19:05, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
So why does TC need to have "affiliate" shoved next to it on the list and not just explain it in the body? CUfiveo (talk) 19:12, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
HamiltonProject has 7 random websites that say TC is an affiliate... so what? TC is an official Faculty... Why do we need to shove "affiliate" next to TC in the list? CUfiveo (talk) 19:26, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Because CUfivio those are not random website those are official docs anyone with eyes can check that!! Anyways according to your argument,HamiltonProject has 7 random website and you have one random handbook. 😂😂😂 ABCDE22 (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
We agree that what makes TC unique is its financial independence and that it has its own administration... so do you think readers looking at TC on the list need to be alerted of that right there and with just the problematic word "affiliate"? Putting that word there just creates confusion especially because it is redundant since TC's presence on the list already implies it's an affiliate(aka member)... it makes sense to note the situation in the body not the list since readers looking at the list care more about if they are getting a CU diploma(which all TC grads are granted) rather where their money inevitably ends up or who does the paperwork... CUfiveo (talk) 18:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Terrible analogy... CUfiveo (talk) 19:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Explain why it is terrible then.--HamiltonProject (talk) 19:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
HamiltonProject I have a random question!! Do you really think CUfiveo has really been accepted at TC, Columbia??!! Anyways, he/she or they are blocked now for vendalism. So, its time for chill! 😊😊😊 ABCDE22 (talk) 19:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Enough strawmen already! Everything I say is backed by official University literature. I'm the opposite of dogmatic... I barely have a COI and it doesn't affect my objectivity at all... the answer is I got in over a decade ago but went somewhere else no bigger thanks than to the bullshit I kept reading on here! CUfiveo (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
One of my cousins graduated from TC a few years ago too so I kinda have another COI... CUfiveo (talk) 21:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
When my cousin showed me his diploma I almost shat myself because it was straight up Columbia University... I thought it was going to be totally different thanks to what I read on wiki back in the day, and because of that I went to another school... so I'm am still pretty jealous/regretful I missed out on an Ivy League degree to be quite honest... that shouldn't happen to someone else and is why I try to edit the page... CUfiveo (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
CUfuvio Lol!! Stop worrying about other; people are smarter then your expectation ; trust me on this. I am high a school even I got this point long ago!! Kindly now stop blaming you stupidity on wikipedia. Anyways now stop wasting our time as now even I don't have time for this drama!! Bests ABCDE22 (talk) 03:15, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
We cannot deal with a user blocked by the admins who has multiple severe COIs (CUfiveo). This is a person who has dogmatic beliefs due to having multiple severe COIs (see above, see my talk page and El_C's talk page for details) and someone who does not share basic principles of Wikipedia to write the facts he agreed was true. Having established a consensus that Teachers College is an affiliate (with at least 7 official documents published by Columbia U), we are closing the debate on this matter. For future editors: please refer to the past discussions and note that consensus has been established that Teachers College is an affiliate. This fact should be noted in the list. --HamiltonProject (talk) 03:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Concensus was gained that "affiliate" was redundantly listed next to TC and that TC is an official Faculty of Columbia too... I was blocked because these LIARS can't legitimately win an argument without having admins step in to protect their vandalism. HamiltonProject(sock puppet) and ABCDE22(a teenager with very poor English) both admitted to not even knowing what the word "affiliate" means they keep editing and keep citing the wording on random University websites as legit and making wildly false claims... it's hard to keep fixing the wiki according to the official Columbia University literature when it's at least 2 versus 1 and it makes it seem me/individuals are warring when we are just doing the right thing to make the wiki accurate... what is the point of this misinformation campaign anyway? The philosophy of these users is if you can't legitimately win an argument attack the person, and that is what keeps happening here... These two bully users need to be put in their place and find something better to do... CUfiveo (talk) 10:15, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
@CUfiveo, LOL!! From where you get that HamiltonProject is a sock puppet? It seems like you are attributing you own quality on HamiltonProject, everyone knows who did it through IP!! Though I accept my typo mistakes but you don't need to be bother about it; in your age I would be far better then you because I am willing to learn. Even I think I am already better then you because I can read wikipedia policies and could understand those policies besides being able to differentiate official docs and random website. So don't worry about us. ABCDE22 (talk) 11:51, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
We agree what makes TC unique is its financial independence and that it has its own administration... so do you think readers looking at TC on the list need to be alerted of that right there and with just the problematic word "affiliate"?
Putting that word there just creates confusion especially because it is redundant since TC's presence on the list already implies it's an affiliate(aka member)... it makes sense to note the situation in the body not the list since readers looking at the list care more about if they are getting a CU diploma(which all TC grads are granted) rather where their money inevitably ends up or who does the paperwork...
The alumni/OPIR websites are erroneous and the OPIR bizarrely doesn't list TC degrees... this is either a product of corruption or ineptitude, but either way they are wrong about TC (the official Charters and Statutes make it clear all TC grads get CU diplomas). https://secretary.columbia.edu/files/secretary/university_charters_and_statutes/University%20Charters%20and%20Statutes_June%202013.pdf
Directly from the Handbook: Academic Structure of the University The basic organizing units of the University are its 20 Faculties and 78 departments of instruction. The Faculties are commonly referred to as schools or colleges, depending upon historical circumstances. However, the terms are not synonymous, since some schools and colleges are units within larger Faculties. Academic activity is also conducted through administrative boards, institutes, interdepartmental programs, centers, and laboratories.
The relationship between Faculties and departments is a complex one. In general, Faculties are responsible for curricular programs leading to degrees and certificates, while departments provide the instruction required by those programs. The focus of some Faculties is sufficiently limited that they are simultaneously departments, while others draw on many departments to meet their instructional needs. Conversely, some departments are part of more than one Faculty.
Two affiliated institutions – Barnard College and Teachers College – are also Faculties of the University.
The Faculty of Teachers College serves as the University’s Department of Education.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/vpaa/handbook/organization.html CUfiveo (talk) 18:44, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Please justify why the word "affiliate" needs to be shoved into the list next to TC and not just described in the body. CUfiveo (talk) 19:41, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
See above for the apple analogy (I should not take up space for this multiple times)--HamiltonProject (talk) 19:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Columbia is officially 20 Faculties not 14 schools... CUfiveo (talk) 19:48, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Let's talk at the main section guys!! Its becoming more entartaining ABCDE22 (talk) 19:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
One of my cousin's graduated from TC a few years ago. When he showed me his diploma I almost shat myself because it was straight up Columbia University... I thought it was going to be totally different thanks to what I read on wiki almost a decade ago and because of that I went to another school... so I'm am still pretty jealous/regretful I missed out on an Ivy League degree to be quite honest... that shouldn't happen to someone else and is why I try to edit the page... CUfiveo (talk) 02:55, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Concensus was gained that "affiliate" was redundantly listed next to TC and that TC is an official Faculty of Columbia but that doesn't seem to matter... I was blocked because these LIARS can't legitimately win an argument without having admins step in to protect their vandalism. HamiltonProject(sock puppet) and ABCDE22(a teenager with very poor English) both admitted to not even knowing what the word "affiliate" means they keep editing and keep citing the wording on random University websites as legit and making wildly false claims... it's hard to keep fixing the wiki according to the official Columbia University literature when it's at least 2 versus 1 and it makes it seem me/individuals are warring when we are just doing the right thing to make the wiki accurate... what is the point of this misinformation campaign anyway? The philosophy of these users is if you can't legitimately win an argument attack the person, and that is what keeps happening here... These two bully users need to be put in their place and find something better to do... CUfiveo (talk) 10:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
There was definitely concensus, you just don't want to change the wiki... everyone can go read where you unequivocally agreed to those things CUfiveo (talk) 12:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
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