Talk:Arrival (film)

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Arrival (film) has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: June 1, 2020. (Reviewed version).

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Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (Ling. Determinism/Relativism)

I'd like to add something in this article on the prevalence of certain Linguistic principles in the film. Most notably, Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (Linguistic Determinism/Relativism). Arrival(2016) is used as an example of this Linguistic theory in popular context in another wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_determinism#Arrival_(2016). Especially since this article mentions the academic reception to this film, specifically by linguists in the field. Where best would this fit? Plot? Or perhaps under a new section titled something like "Themes and Interpretations"? see V for Vendetta as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta_(film)#Themes_and_interpretationsRosarioFreedom (talk) 20:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Firstly, you need a citation. What that says will help you work out whether and where it is relevant to the article. There is already a reference to this theory in the article, in the academics section, and we would not want to unbalance the article by adding top much more, unless there is something new to say? MapReader (talk) 21:30, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for responding and adding your thoughts here, MapReader! It was very helpful. Perhaps this section could go further in detail to explain why certain academics disagreed with the use of the sapir-whorf hypothesis. The given reference says it simply "went beyond anything plausible". Well, how? Here are a few articles we could cite to provide a background on how it was used in the film, how this was part of the greater theme of language in the film, and why some linguists, notably Betty Birner, found the popular use of the theory misleading. Language as a main theme, is portayed not only with the difference between human and alien species, but between national differences and differences between certain characters and their occupation. Their occupation and the language used within those fields influence their frame of reference and approach towards how best to deal with the alien species; their expectation of what most likely will occur. Language in the film goes far beyond Sapir-Whorf and it should be noted as a main theme.RosarioFreedom (talk) 17:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

You should have a read of WP:FILMSCI before proceeding, I think. The risks concern balance and relevance, and the point made within the MoS that WP is explicitly not aiming to record every known fact about everything. This is an encyclopaedia article about a piece of fictional drama - and while it is reasonable to include a reference to an academic debate arising from the film, an extensive discussion of the sort you appear to envisage would only be justified if you can show that the issues discussed have been the subject of widespread discussion among academics. In other words, it wouldn’t be appropriate to unbalance the whole article purely on the back of a couple of essays in obscure journals. Therefore the place to start is with the sources. MapReader (talk) 17:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for helping to point me in the right direction. I agree, not everything needs to be added. To clarify, and as it was part of my first question, was something along the lines of what the V for Vendetta page has. Perhaps not adding to the film reception but write to the main theme of language in the film, just as we would add summary detail for plot and production. RosarioFreedom (talk) 18:00, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

While I agree with the conclusion of the debate, the very existence of this exchange owes much to a strange underlying issue: people in our society learn more from the movies (and shows) than they have learned in school, and much of what they "know" is very wrong as a consequence. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:923:64C:C379:29D8 (talk) 13:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Betty Birner review

I wonder why she was cited- she fails to understand that these aliens knew us and our paths to understand how those same aliens communicate. I Was satisfied and entertained that the language thing unfolded as it did because the aliens visited us had known for untold years that there would be a critical point when such an encounter would emerge. Not to insult, but my college had (as many colleges have) courses likened to my "Science for poets" and "Humanities for Science", since the two magisteria have little overlap and some hand holds through these different realms were undoubtedly the theme of the film- the understanding that her all-important flashbacks were core to her communications with the aliens- that the most important communications were not so much with the aliens but with herself in other timeframes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4E00:2100:2452:A66A:97AD:6B8 (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Jack Vance story "The Gift of the Gab"

These things get contentious real quick, so I would just recommend that wikipedians read Vance's story and in particular his description of establishing communication with alien decabrachs and deciding how much the movie owes to this classic sci fi story (the title of which alone is already an improvement on the po-faced film's). 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:923:64C:C379:29D8 (talk) 13:04, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

There are no reliable sources connecting the film with that story. There are no grounds for inclusion. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I am not asking you to include anything, just to read the story. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:923:64C:C379:29D8 (talk) 14:08, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Articles' talk pages are for improving the articles. They aren't intended to be general forums to discuss the topic. See WP:NOTAFORUM. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 15:31, 4 October 2022 (UTC)