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I was trying to convert all the blue unamed "where the hell will this link take me" on the Copernicus page to template:cite web format, but came unstuck on this one as the machine I am using disables any url with a .doc extension, if you're still about could you look at it tell me what the page is called and what it's from? Thanks.--Alf melmac 13:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
First of all - you reverted a wrong version, knucklehead, pay attention! Second - the Gdańsk citizens revolted not against Poland, which the city was a part of, but against the choice of the new king - their candidate being a Habsburg. Unfortunately they lost surrendered and lost a lot of privileges. Gdańsk was not independent, you're mistaken. Space Cadet 00:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I take back the knuckle head and I apologize. But the new king did not yet issue any decrees limiting the "autonomy" as you call it, nor did he show any signs of intending to do so. Gdańsk citizens revolted only because they liked Habsburg's moustache better. And they wanted him to be not the king of Gdańsk, but the whole Poland of which they still wanted to be a part of. Gets? Space Cadet 15:47, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
You are off the mark! Fast lesson: http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceurope/danzig15571660.html --Toolsbadly 17:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
And you are out of line quoting nationalistic sites. Try this government site:http://www.poland.gov.pl/Stefan,Batory,(1533,%E2%80%93,1586),1959.html Space Cadet 00:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
@Space Cadet: 1) Exactly what is nationalistic about the site? 2) What statements contradict between your poland.gov.pl page and the one I used? 3) Are you aware that your poland.gov.pl page is not about GDanzig?
@Basedview22: Did you want to copy the extremeness of the judgement of Space Cadet about the site I used? Or do you think this about their government really?--Toolsbadly 09:14, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I know it from surfing and it's ironically on my favorites list. It uses German names for most Polish cities and other geographical features even during periods of time when the territorry in question belonged to Poland. It pushes the XIX century Prussian historiography POV. The Polish site captures both sides of the argument and it does not try to hide or misinterpret historical facts. It's so objective that even I find some shocking at first information in it. Space Cadet 11:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The site uses Gdansk until 1309, it uses Danzig from 1309 to 1946, it uses Gdasnk since 1946. Wikipedia uses Gdańsk until 1307, it uses Danzig from 1308 to 1945, it uses Gdańsk after 1945. So: The site is just fine! It doesnt push XIX century Prussian historiography POV, okay? The Polish site captures no sides of the argument, has as subject not Gdansig, just the king, and is objective or is not. You were careless with your accusation of nationalism.--Toolsbadly 12:06, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
No, both sites are wrong and inconsistent. From 1466 (1454) to 1793 Gdańsk was Polish, "okay"?. You mean to tell me you did not read any other article on the site? How superficial! No, I was not careless, but you are! Space Cadet 15:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about? No one said it wasn't Polish, and no one said it was. You argue German name for a city => city was German => city was then in Germany; use of German name for city not in Germany => revisionism & nationalistic & biased & inconsistent & wrong, etc., and zum.de makes this => zum.de is all of this before => zum.de and all their info shall not be used => zum.de is wrong => Gdansig was not autonomous. Both site are wrong and inconsistent? YOu meant zum.de and wikipedia.org, didnt you? Wikipedia held its own decision making conference and vote for the nameing of Gdansig, coming to the conclusion both sites now use, described above:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gdansk/Vote --Toolsbadly 20:25, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Over the years I read about 100 books about the period, so my knowledge is not based on one or two sites and your little cause and effect chain maybe applies more to you: Space Cadet is a Polish nationalist ==> etc. I would like to recommend a great book by Karin Friedrich "The Other Prussia - Royal Prussia, Poland and Liberty, 1569 - 1772". Autonomous - yes, but an autonomous part of Poland. Space Cadet 21:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I could teach someone who read a hundred books (or were you using binary numerals??) about the period that the fight of Gdansig against the king was to avoid reduction in autonomy? I feel very honored. Earlier you wrote: it was "against the choice of the new king - their candidate being a Habsburg. Unfortunately they lost surrendered and lost a lot of privileges." "But the new king did not yet issue any decrees limiting the "autonomy" as you call it, nor did he show any signs of intending to do so. Gdańsk citizens revolted only because they liked Habsburg's moustache better." "And you are out of line quoting nationalistic sites."
Looking back, don't you feel embarassed? You're now using autonomy without quotes, even. That you call my recording of your past logic my "little cause and effect chain" doesn't make it incorrect.--Toolsbadly 09:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
No I don't feel embarassed. It is you who will feel embarassed after you read (from cover to cover) the book I recommended. In the meantime please teach me stuff, but try to use scientific arguments, rather then "funny" binary system one, or "you forgot the quotation marrks". Space Cadet 14:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
The book wrote that Gdanzigs fight against Batory was to avoid reduction in its liberty too.--Toolsbadly 19:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I specifically asked you to read the entire book, "cover to cover" not a little excerpt here: .
If you did as asked by your more educated and read colleague, you would realize that the author meant what she said only in the cultural aspect, not political. Now stop beiing superficial, do a research and come back. Space Cadet 16:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
My more educated and read colleague should read the conclusion of the book, on page 217 it explicitly writes that Prussians were neither German or Polish.--Toolsbadly 19:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
It's not a conclusion, but a fragment out of context, which talks not about the cultural not political aspect. Space Cadet 20:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
No, it isn't. You're lying again.--Toolsbadly 20:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
And you are lying from day one! Space Cadet 20:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh really? When? Give me one!--Toolsbadly 20:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
When I give you one, how long are you gonna hold it, liar? Space Cadet 20:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
In English?--Toolsbadly 20:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, if you want. Space Cadet 20:32, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
What does it mean, 'When I give you one, how long are you gonna hold it, liar?' ?--Toolsbadly 20:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Aren't you somewhat intelligent? Tell me about your intelligence. Space Cadet 20:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Map of Europe in 1547 and 1648. Note which country Danzig is in. Balcer 13:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Open your book The Other Prussia and look at the two maps. It doesn't call it Poland: Royal Prussia.--Toolsbadly 19:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
But the whole book clearly states that it was. Space Cadet 20:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
No. It doesnt't.--Toolsbadly 20:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it does. Space Cadet 20:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC) P.S. But I'm glad you read the book. Now we just have to work (a lot!) on your conclusion forming skills. Lesson number one: Arrive at conclusions AFTER exploring the source, not BEFORE! Space Cadet 20:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Who should teach lesson number one to whom is the question.--Toolsbadly 20:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not. It's pretty clear. Space Cadet 20:31, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
You didnt't read the book, even. If you did you would know why Gdanzig put up arms against the king.--Toolsbadly 20:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Everybody knows about this one. But I'll gladly listen to your opinion on it. Space Cadet 20:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
YOu mean: everybody who read 100 books on the period knows about this one. You didn't. Why?--Toolsbadly 20:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
No, everyone even somewhat educated. Space Cadet 20:31, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Aren't you somewhat educated? Tell me about your education.--Toolsbadly 20:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I am, and then some. Space Cadet 20:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Please read carefully Wikipedia:Three-revert rule, as you are on the point of breaking it. Making 4 reverts in 24 hours is likely to result with being blocked from editing. Balcer 16:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC) I've done that now. Thank you for showing me. It's very interesting.--Toolsbadly 21:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I have to go do something right now, but I'll be back. Space Cadet 21:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
This would be a good time to learn about another important policy: WP:Point. In short, if you think one article is bad and incorrect, don't make another one bad and incorrect in retaliation. Try to change the article you have a problem with.Balcer 14:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I dont't think one of them is bad and incorrect, with or without Copernicus and Johnny H.. The lists should be treated in equal manner however and not independendly. You delete Copernicus and Johnny H. from the German list and don't do the same with the Polish list? "WP:Point" is no license to inequality.--Toolsbadly 14:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I suggest to refer to the city in biographies as "Danzig (Gdańsk)", as recommended by the vote, without any claim for Prussia or Poland as the addition of one or the country has proven time and again that it only fuels edit wars. After all, the biographies are about persons, not the history of cities or countries. This is a proposal for a compromise that could bring consensus and allow many biographies to be stable. Please consider it. -- Matthead discuß! O 18:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
On the other hand, a biography without a mention of a country where the events are taking place is lacking something, don't you think? Space Cadet 19:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
(You wrote)
Frauenburg (Frombork), Warmia was in Royal Prussia. Please undo yourself.--Toolsbadly 18:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
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