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 | This is an archive of past discussions about User:Rhododendrites, for the period November 2016 - December 2016. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Destruction of ivory you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. 
This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Chris troutman -- Chris troutman (talk) 04:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- Hi, to see the review in motion. :) I'll hover at the page and see if I can pitch in as well. Cheers, cart-Talk 07:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Chris troutman: Great! Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:47, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
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19:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Dear Ryan, 
I hope you are keeping well, and that you enjoyed your (partial) wiki-break. 
Whenever you might have a few spare minutes, I would be most grateful if you would be so kind as to review the subject draft and to point out areas needing improvements. I am particularly interested in your views concerning my use of flat lists and collapsible tables, which I thought proved appropriately useful in this case, but might be too outlandish for a GA-level quality article, which is the standard I aim to achieve.
Thank you very much for your considered comments, Ryan, which are always helpful and wise.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 11:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Pdebee: Hello there. I had a good couple months of wikibreak, but yeah, it pretty quickly turned "partial." :) I've only given it a very quick look, so I'll just give a few first impressions from its appearance now, and then take a closer look this weekend. Apologies if any of this is wrongheaded due to not having looked closely enough yet.
- Ideally, content in the lead is also in the body somewhere, so the citations could be migrated down. Pretty minor thing, though.
- I'm not terribly familiar with quote styles, but to me right-justified with small text (and no other differences) looks a little odd. My preference would be either just use {{quote}} or to use a border with the box (and reduce the width, putting it to the side of the text).
- I've now added a border to the two quote boxes; does it look less odd to you now? Personally, I quite like the quotes as they were, but if they looked odd to you, then that's an important element of feedback which I'd want to take into account. Please let me know if it's better now and, if not, I'll change it again. Thanks very much, Ryan.
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:31, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
- I've now added a border to the two quote boxes; does it look less odd to you now? Personally, I quite like the quotes as they were, but if they looked odd to you, then that's an important element of feedback which I'd want to take into account. Please let me know if it's better now and, if not, I'll change it again. Thanks very much, Ryan.
- Since he's a photographer I did a quick look for photos. There are a few on Commons. Sadly, a few look to be copyright violations so I nominated them for deletion. There are two with proper OTRS tags, though: File:Scott Ellaway filming OpusYou in 2016 (Photo by Clive Barda).jpg and File:Sarah Beth Briggs playing the piano Ref no 100929 0069 briggs lradj.jpg. Might be worth including one or both somehow?
- "notable portraits" - seems like this means the portraits themselves would have received coverage? Or does this mean the collections/books are notable? Or the people? what criteria went into these lists of selected works?
- The collapsible tables summarize the photographs of notable people that were selected for publication in both books. In turn, the names in the flat lists are of the most notable people and are a subset of names from those tables (and are therefore wikilinked in the flat lists but not further down in the tables). The reason for calling the section "notable portraits" is because all of the people in the books are notable artists. I could certainly rename the section title to "Selected works", because every photo published in the two books was selected by the author from his immense collection. Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:32, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Done
- The collapsible tables summarize the photographs of notable people that were selected for publication in both books. In turn, the names in the flat lists are of the most notable people and are a subset of names from those tables (and are therefore wikilinked in the flat lists but not further down in the tables). The reason for calling the section "notable portraits" is because all of the people in the books are notable artists. I could certainly rename the section title to "Selected works", because every photo published in the two books was selected by the author from his immense collection. Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:32, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- I could be wrong, but I think the typical way to mix a bibliography with footnotes would be to use {{sfn}} instead of citing the book in the bibliography and in the references. So for example, removing the Performance! book in the references, and replacing each instance (along with the page number) with e.g. {{sfn|Barda|2000|p=17}} If you'd prefer to keep the citations as they are, it might make sense to rename "Bibliography" to "further reading".
- That's all for now. More later :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:47, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- Dear Ryan,
- Very many thanks for your initial review, which seems to have been more than cursory.
- I have made a mental note of your most helpful suggestions and will think about each of them carefully. I am going away tomorrow and will be back on Monday. I will wait for you to complete your review this weekend, as you indicated; then will reply to you in greater detail. For now, though, please know that I definitely intend to follow your advice, as well as the pointers you've already provided so helpfully. Thank you so much for your willingness to assist me in getting this right; as you gathered, I am a bit of a perfectionist, so all your input is of immense value to me, and I remain very grateful; thanks once again, Ryan.
- With kind regards;
- Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:42, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. For now, I have replied to a couple of points, in your bulleted list above. Thank you.
- Dear Ryan,
- @Pdebee: Thanks. I had a few things I wanted to finish today, and will follow up about this tomorrow. I'll leave a message with responses/feedback on the draft's talk page, in case it's useful for this discussion to stay with the article. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 04:21, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
- Dear Ryan,
- Thank you for your latest message, and for finding the time, whenever convenient. As for copying the above exchanges, I had been thinking along the same lines, and have now done so here. Done
- Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:45, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Pdebee: Sorry, wound up having more on my plate today than I thought. Will have to return to it tomorrow :/ — Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:12, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
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With respect, while some trimming of Archive.is#Browser_Integration may have been warranted, your major revision to this section has made it into a jumbled incoherent mess. I'm going to try to find a happy middle ground. John Navas (talk) 23:40, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Jnavas2: Fair enough. My major objections were about the how-to type of content and linking a non-notable piece of software with no independent sourcing. That said, it seemed harmless to include something brief in the context of "basic facts about the subject" (the sort of information that isn't promotional or controversial and can come directly from the subject itself). You're right that I didn't do a very good job of it, though. :) So thanks for working to fix it. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:50, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Rhododendrites: Sounds good. Thank you. John Navas (talk) 00:15, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
The article Destruction of ivory you nominated as a good article has passed 
; see Talk:Destruction of ivory for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Chris troutman -- Chris troutman (talk) 20:15, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Rhodo, thank you for your helpful feedback about List of fake news websites and Fake news website.
I replied to you over at Talk:List of fake news websites. Let us know what you think over there. Sagecandor (talk) 04:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
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On 21 November 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Quanta Live, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Gilberto Gil said his Grammy Award for Quanta Live was particularly meaningful because the album is a summary of his three decades in music? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Quanta Live. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Quanta Live), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Talk to me about your motivations--NetworkOP (talk) 22:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- @NetworkOP: Hi there. Context for this message please? :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 00:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- What do you enjoy most about editing Wikipedia?--NetworkOP (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
- @NetworkOP: I understand that part. :P I was asking for more context, though. (e.g. why are you asking me and what is this for). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:58, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
- What do you enjoy most about editing Wikipedia?--NetworkOP (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
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Hi, I removed the mention of Russia from this article and you reverted my change. However I cannot find where this claim originates. You said that it was mentioned in the Business Insider article however clicking on that link takes you to the original source of the claim, Buzzfeed. I cannot find any mention of 'Russia' in the Buzzfeed article. 151.229.53.102 (talk) 21:45, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Ah. I misunderstood your original objection. Regardless, it looks like someone else has remedied the situation. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:06, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
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Ok. I'm going to close this. I don't think anything positive can come out of it at this point and discussion is ongoing elsewhere. |
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You've removed all host information. I suggest you at least add back that it's served by Cloudflare.
In the future, please discuss with me before removing my contributions. Thank you.
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Hello Rhododendrites: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, North America1000 15:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
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- Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message
- @Northamerica1000: Thanks. Your effort to foster community with little mass messages like this one is recognized. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:09, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- Enjoy the holiday season. North America1000 16:16, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Northamerica1000: Thanks. Your effort to foster community with little mass messages like this one is recognized. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:09, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
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Season's Greetings, Rhododendrites! At this wonderful time of year, I would like to give season’s greetings to all the fellow Wikipedians I have interacted with in the past! May you have a wonderful holiday season! MarnetteD|Talk 19:13, 20 December 2016 (UTC) |
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- @MarnetteD: Thanks! Happy days to you! — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
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| Wishing you a very happy holiday season and a fulfilling 2017. Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:07, 21 December 2016 (UTC) |
- @Another Believer: Thank you! And likewise to you. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
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Thanks for all your help on the 'pedia! |
- @Davey2010: Thanks. :) Merry days to you, too. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:07, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
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Thank you for your post at WP:VPP#RfC2 on Miss America and Miss USA entrants.
At this time, it is the only reply I have received to my request for comment, and the RfC has been closed. The answer to your first question is still visible in the rationale at WP:VPP#RfC on Miss America and Miss USA entrants, i.e.,
Associated state-level pageants are notable: All of these entrants are winners of notable state-level pageants, see Category:Miss USA state pageants and Category:Miss America state pageants.
As for your second question, I have been trained for both personal and business communication to limit the use of questions, nor is there any requirement for an RfC to be presented as a question, nor do I see that a question improves the RfC. Reading your response as meaning that you "don't support" the statement as a "ground for action" can you further explain your viewpoint? What is it that you don't support? Thank you, Unscintillating (talk) 20:21, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Unscintillating: Thanks for the follow up. My intention with my second question wasn't to give you a hard time for no reason. Indeed, a question is not required. Sometimes it's helpful, though, for clarity's sake. I don't think it was clear what you were asking for comment on. Or, more in line with how I read it, it seemed like you went way out of your way to omit the conclusion, instead asking for comment on less controversial statements from which a consensus claim could be extracted later -- so I opposed because I wasn't sure what my support would be used for. To be clear, I don't think you were trying to pull something sneaky; it's just a style of presentation that I would have a hard time supporting. There's too much room for messiness when the point of the RfC isn't explicit, is all. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:39, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- A comment of yours at VPP was, "The second is just quoting common practice.", but I don't assume that ATD will survive this RfC. I want to know, because I don't like supporting WP:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion if it lacks community support.
If we can agree that our readers want reliably sourced information, as available, about these specific pageant entrants, and that merger of non-notable pageant entrants to suitable targets is accepted policy; what more do you want to know about what this means? Is this not then a normal content issue?
I've created a draft for a new RfC at my sandbox, . Your comments would be appreciated. Unscintillating (talk) 03:48, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Unscintillating: I may not have properly articulated my concern. It may be that, per part one of the hypothesis, contestants in these larger pageants have all won state-level pageants which were also notable (whether readers want it is a fine point to make, but rarely justification in itself). It may also be that, as a matter of general principle, non-notable subjects can be merged into suitable targets. The problem is that the crucial intersection is omitted. We have some context and something that is allowed according to existing rules. That something is allowed, however, doesn't mean it applies to all cases, of course. Non-notable pageant winners can be merged into a suitable target... if there's consensus to do so. :) So the real ask isn't whether such a thing could possibly occur but whether it should happen that non-notable pageant winners of notable pageants be merged [rather than deleted?]. I'm starting work at the moment, so haven't looked at the draft RfC, but will likely do so later. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:10, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- You've used the word "deleted" as if it is something apart from WP:Deletion policy. The hypothesis specifically references two sections from WP:Deletion policy. If those two sections don't have community support, I hope you'd agree that it is not acceptable that the policy says that it is a "widely accepted standard that all editors should normally follow".
Another point that occurs to me in response to your post is that there are no examples of a merged bio in the RfC. The only one that comes quickly to mind is Thomas Mantell. Unscintillating (talk) 19:05, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- I've moved the draft RfC to User:Unscintillating/Draft RfC on Miss America and Miss USA entrants, which provides a talk page for this issue if you want. Unscintillating (talk) 19:05, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- You've used the word "deleted" as if it is something apart from WP:Deletion policy. The hypothesis specifically references two sections from WP:Deletion policy. If those two sections don't have community support, I hope you'd agree that it is not acceptable that the policy says that it is a "widely accepted standard that all editors should normally follow".
- @Unscintillating: I may not have properly articulated my concern. It may be that, per part one of the hypothesis, contestants in these larger pageants have all won state-level pageants which were also notable (whether readers want it is a fine point to make, but rarely justification in itself). It may also be that, as a matter of general principle, non-notable subjects can be merged into suitable targets. The problem is that the crucial intersection is omitted. We have some context and something that is allowed according to existing rules. That something is allowed, however, doesn't mean it applies to all cases, of course. Non-notable pageant winners can be merged into a suitable target... if there's consensus to do so. :) So the real ask isn't whether such a thing could possibly occur but whether it should happen that non-notable pageant winners of notable pageants be merged [rather than deleted?]. I'm starting work at the moment, so haven't looked at the draft RfC, but will likely do so later. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:10, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- A comment of yours at VPP was, "The second is just quoting common practice.", but I don't assume that ATD will survive this RfC. I want to know, because I don't like supporting WP:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion if it lacks community support.
- @Unscintillating: Thanks for the follow up. My intention with my second question wasn't to give you a hard time for no reason. Indeed, a question is not required. Sometimes it's helpful, though, for clarity's sake. I don't think it was clear what you were asking for comment on. Or, more in line with how I read it, it seemed like you went way out of your way to omit the conclusion, instead asking for comment on less controversial statements from which a consensus claim could be extracted later -- so I opposed because I wasn't sure what my support would be used for. To be clear, I don't think you were trying to pull something sneaky; it's just a style of presentation that I would have a hard time supporting. There's too much room for messiness when the point of the RfC isn't explicit, is all. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:39, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
On 28 December 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The J's with Jamie, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Time magazine said The J's with Jamie "have probably been heard by more people more times than any other group in the history of sound. Yet next to nobody knows who they are"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The J's with Jamie. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, The J's with Jamie), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
I was interested to see that the group released a record Hey, Look us Over!, and together with its 1963 date and the fact that they did political ads sometimes, I'm now really curious. Do we know if they ever did work with the Chicago firm of Bob Long Associates? See ; Indiana legislator Birch Bayh reached the U.S. Senate in 1963 with a Long-created campaign advertisement featuring a modified version of "Hey, Look Me Over". Nyttend (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Nyttend: I'm afraid I don't have good answers for you. I came across them when I was looking at one of the Grammy Award lists and noticed a redlinked award winner. Curious, I looked into them and found their story interesting enough to start the article. Online sources are scarce, though. I did a pretty extensive search of what's freely available on the web (i.e. not behind paywalls or tucked away in a library), and what's in the article is about all I came up with. Someone on the WFMU blog took enough interest to reach out to ask questions directly, but still didn't seem to get a great deal of backstory/information (or at least didn't publish it). Very strange. Actually, not that strange. They may have had a good reputation in the industry at the time and their output may have been ubiquitous in American culture, but like ghostwriters and anyone else who produces content for someone else (i.e. advertising firms, companies' marketing departments), they wouldn't get the kind of recognition one would expect for that level of visibility... — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- I was guessing that you'd have included this information if you had it, but I figured I'd ask just in case. Thanks for the detailed explanation! Nyttend (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- PS, what are the numbers following the names of the albums, e.g. "CS-8805" following Hey, Look us Over! Am I correct in guessing it to be some sort of identification number (it appears other places, e.g. )? Nyttend (talk) 02:03, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Nyttend: Catalog numbers. Labels give a [more or less] unique one to each release. Not necessarily something I'd think to include in most Wikipedia articles, but they can come in handy when, say, there are are multiple ways an album's title has been written, multiple releases, international variations, different album art, weird sales figures, etc. In this case I can't remember precisely what I got from it but it was useful for searching/finding information on the more obscure releases. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
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