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Template:Infobox Australian place is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories.
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The present accepted values – city, town, lga – don't cover Australia's many smaller places with higher population than a locality. I recommend including "township" in the accepted values.
Two random examples are William Creek -- permanent population <20 but a significant settlement nevertheless -- and Wanbi, South Australia, with a similar population, described as "a town and locality" when it is neither, really. They are both townships. Comments? SCHolar44 (talk) 13:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Lacking terminology to convey the size of a [here insert name of a very small type of human settlement] obfuscates the understanding of readers who don't know that Queensland has dropped all such distinctions, i.e. the vast majority. Their understanding is more likely to be closer to, as per SOED:
- a built-up area with a name, defined boundaries, and local government, that is larger than a village and generally smaller than a city
- the central part of a neighbourhood, with its business or shopping area
- densely populated areas, especially as contrasted with the country or suburbs.
The scale is nowhere near the scale we're talking about. At least one term below "town" is needed. On reflection, "populated place" that JarrahTree mentions seems to provide the maximum flexibility. It's descriptive and avoids being entangled in the nomenclature of any particular jurisdiction. SCHolar44 (talk) 23:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Information
In response to Kerry's request for details on how the template responds to |type=
:
|type=
sets the short description of the article (eg: 'Town in /state/', or maybe 'Suburb of /city/ in /state/', etc.) - which is shown in the WP search suggestions|type=
sets the infobox background colour - for the header and the labels column|type=lga
, the default is not to show a location map
|type=
values, the location map shows the Australian state map with the place as a point location|alternative_location_map=
, |force_national_map=
or |use_lga_map=
)|pop=
is not supplied):
|type=town
or |type=city
will show the UCL (urban centre) population
|type=town
and no UCL population is found, SAL (locality) and / or ILOC (indigenous location) populations will be shown|type=suburb
will show the SAL (locality) population|type=lga
or |type=region
will show the LGA population|type=protected
|iucn_category=
is supplied, will show an IUCN banner|nearest_town_or_city=
will be shown if supplied|visitation_num=
and |visitation_year=
will be shown if supplied|type=lga
|mayor=
will be shown if supplied|type=cadastral
|hundred=
, |former_hundred=
and |division=
will be shown if supplied|type=
sets the heading on the places-near sub-table (eg: 'Towns around ...')|type=
sets the categories the article is included in:
|type=town
: [[Category:Towns in /state/]]|type=suburb
: [[Category:Surburbs of /city/]]|type=lga
and if |est=
is supplied: [[Category:Populated places established in /year/]]|type=
also influences tracking categories, which I won't detail hereOpinion
I agree the template needs a type for small settled places (usually they will be too small for the ABS to define a UCL, which means usually under 200 people). My suggestion is 'settlement'. The Macquarie Dictionary has as one of its definitions of settlement: 'a small village or collection of houses, especiallty in a sparsely populated area'. If there is an ABS SAL (locality) in the linked Wikidata, that population should be shown (appropriately labelled), if not there will be no ABS population figure available.
Kerry, I'm not convinced of the value of two sets of coords for 'town' and 'locality': on a small-scale map (the default location map is of a whole state) they would likely just be two very-close points, while on a large-scale map point locations for what are both actually areas don't mean much - it would be more meaningful to show the actual boundaries of the 'urban' and 'locality' areas (admittedly a big mapping or data-import task). (BTW, the coordinates shown top-right of the article will be for the last {{coords}} call with display=title.)
As JarrahTree suggests, there needs to be a way of recognising that a 'place' can be both a town and a locality. Why not |type=townandlocality
, which would show population figures for both the UCL and the SAL, provided they are both in the linked Wikidata item.
If displayed populations (etc.) are to depend on |type=
values, we need 'terminology' for them. If we are not going to 'bother with terminology', then automatic populations will need to be presented for all entity types in the wikidata, regardless of |type=
. Or is the suggestion a new parameter of 'ignoretypeforwikidatapopulation'? (That name is not a genuinely suggested one, but you get my drift I hope.) Innesw (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
|type=
Note: in the following 'locality' is used in the sense of a whole named postal-address area (= an ABS SAL), not a point location that happens to have a name.
|type=locality
|type=suburb
, but intended for rural localities. Therefore it would show a Wikidata population figure for (only) the ABS SAL.|type=suburb
would be in the article short description ('A locality in /state/'), the heading for the Places Near sub-table ('Localities around /place/'), the background colour and the categories|type=townandlocality
|type=settlement
|type=town
would be valid). What should be done if a locality of the same name exists needs discussion.I am aware these changes would require changes elsewhere, especially to Module:PopulationFromWikidata, but the technical details can be sorted out later if the principles of the above changes are accepted. Innesw (talk) 11:50, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Annotated link for Broughton Island (New South Wales) returns – 'island in Australia' and notice "Pages displaying wikidata descriptions as a fallback", but there is a short description, 'Protected area in New South Wales, Australia' generated by the infobox ({{Infobox Australian place}}), which the Annotated link template apparently does not find. I don't know if this is a unique occurrence or a general problem. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:22, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
Recently I discovered that, for instance, Melbourne doesn't have its flag or coat of arms in the infobox. And it turns out that this infobox lacks these sections. Why is that? I argue it's high time these sections should be returned or added. Even if a official flag (like the one of Sydney) is not used by the council, it still is official and should be displayed in the article until it is revoked by the city or replaced. Ivario (talk) 12:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
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