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Williams Grand Prix Engineering was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
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Willians wasn't created in 1977, Jacques Lafitte was second in the German GP on a Williams as early as 1974. Previously the team was named from his sponsors : Polytoys and Iso-Malboro. Ericd 13:22, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
You can find the version "BMW.WilliamsF1 Team" at some sources, including their Official Team Logo. However, the Team does not use it in regular written texts neither does the FIA or the Official Formula 1 Website, they use "BMW WilliamsF1 Team".
Shouldent it be "BMW WilliamsF1 Team" here also then?
Yes I know, I was just talking about the full name in the box to the right, it says "BMW.WilliamsF1 Team", but it should be "BMW WilliamsF1 Team"
Any justification for the line about these two not being regarded as great world champions? Hill helped bring the team back from its worst point(then) in 1994 and has won grand prix with more than one team. Also plenty of drivers have had the best car to drive but not managed a world championship (Raikkonen, Coulthard). Some revision please.
By any standard Hill & Villeneuve are not in the top flight of GP world champions. The greats are usually listed as Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher. Everybody else is deemed not quite there.
The main problem is that you only compare drivers of the same era. Hill and Villeneuve will be compared to Schumacher, as drivers they were not of the same standard.
All in all it's fair to list Hill and Villneuve as they currently are.
The article doesn't say so, and I can't remeber. I think the reason was simply "It looked shit", and Hewlett Packard was too long, so Invent it was. JamesHoadley 06:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Asked why drivers didn't like the new car, Patrick Head demo he'd been there, replying, "Not quick enough." Trekphiler 06:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I can see you're hard at work, Skully! I'd be included to cut the lengthy section on FWRC, though. AlbinoMonkey gave a very good explanation up above as to why the two should be considered as seperate bodies - there's no real connection between them other than Frank Williams (and Patrick Head?). I agree with his position that this article should restrict itself to a brief mention of Frank's earlier activities and a link to FWRC. Cheers. 4u1e 18:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Final sentence of Introduction has the word "won" omitted.
"Williams have won 113 races out of 524 races they've completed."
Do you mean completed or competed?
Piers Courage died at the 1970 Dutch Grand Prix in a De Tomaso, not in the 1969 version in a Brabham.
With regard to the fair use picture of Mansell's FW11 in 1986 used in the article, is there a reason why it couldn't be replaced by this 1985 image (of the FW10?) which is Creative Commons? I don't want to replace it if there is a reason for the FW11 to be used. Alexj2002 10:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I started copyediting, but ran into trouble almost immediately with trying to keep things consistent. Turned out the problem was the 1976 and 1977 seasons. There's a nasty little trap lurking in the statistics.
Although it is true that both 'Wolf Williams' and 'Williams' are listed in the 1976 results as constructors, this does not mean that Williams Grand Prix Engineering competed that year. Confused? I was! The list of 'teams' given for 1976 is actually the list of constructors. In 2006 'team' and 'constructor' are the same thing because team's must own the copyright to the design of their cars and so in effect almost always build them themselves and different teams cannot use the same car. This has only been the case since the early 1980s however.
Before then there was nothing to stop teams using cars from other constructors - however constructors score points, not teams, so it was the overall performance of all a constructors cars, not just their 'works' team that determined their position in the table.
Going back to Williams and Wolf in 1976. Frank sold 60% of his team to Walter Wolf in 1976. (See Walter Wolf Racing). The team ran Hesketh 308s that Wolf bought from the defunct Hesketh team, but these were renamed Wolf-Williams FW05s. The team also ran the previous year's car in a couple of races - the Williams FW04 (not Wolf-Williams, because it was built by the previous incarnation of the team). In some tables of results there are therefore two 'Williams' constructors listed - 'Williams' and 'Wolf-Williams', but these only represent one actual team (Wolf Williams). Frank did not leave until early 1977, which is when he set up WGPE. Further adding to the confusion, in 1977 the team used March 761 chassis, so 'Williams' doesn't appear in the constructors table, because the cars were constructed by March.
I have therefore deleted the 1976 paragraph, as this was actually describing the results achieved by the Williams FW04 run by Wolf Williams. Williams Grand Prix Engineering's history starts in 1977. Apologies for the length of the explanation!
See also , , --4u1e 22:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I've dropped by to review the article and am fairly satisified with the quality of work done here. I'd like to see at least one inline reference for each year, however. The object is so that the reader can find more information about an idea, event, concept, etc. without have to google around for it. The inline references you already have done this nicely. We just need more of them. I'll put the article on hold to give you all time to work on it. --CTSWyneken(talk) 13:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
The hold has expired and the article denied promotion. Please take a look at the issue listed above. When you've had a chance to address it, please renom the article. --CTSWyneken(talk) 15:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Although I might as well just copy and paste the neutral paragraph from the Damon Hill article, I thought it would be better if we had re-write for the incident for this article. Of course the incident has many people split, but personally: I believe that Schumacher did cause the incident (thus the late apex), but whether it was intentional is another matter altogether. Anyway, I'd like to hear others toughts.--Skully Collins 14:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
This is close. I'm not really all that sure, though. Schuamcher had the lead, although he was going significantly slower than hill, he did not actually turn into Hill. He remained on his normal racing line. It's hills cutting across Schuamchers racing line in hopes of passing him that caused the incident, though I doubt schuamcher or hill would fault each other for what they did. That's racing, and it was just a racing incident. We have a dozen or so every year. This one just happened to decide the championship, which is why it gets more attention. Ernham 15:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
If '94 was an isolated incident then I think the above argument would be warranted. But throughout his tenure MS has made the decision that gives him the best chance of winning. MS lost the championship and all his points for trying the same move on Villeneuve. Do we need to list it all again?
The incident with Hill was more blatant MS went off the circuit, hit the wall, came back on and at a dramatically slower pace re-joined the racing line. Hill went for the pass and Schumacher then turned in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5H0w-pEe90
Hill has repeatedly faulted MS for the accident. Hill has also said that it was not an innocent accident but he has stopped short of saying it was a deliberate action on the part of MS. Other drivers have not been so diplomatic.
This accident will always be contentious. But to try and paint it as just a racing accident that should be ignored is not a correct depiction.
If we saw the telemetry then wee would know if Schumi turned in or not. It does look like he turns in on Hill but then, Hill could have waited until the big straight or something. I still think it was delibrate on Schumi's part.
Would anyone object to me removing the picture of the BMW and putting a picture of the Renault Laguna BTCC car in instead? As you may know the BMW V12 is being used under a (slightly dodgy) claim of fair use because (as yet) no freely licenced alternative is available. I might have found a freely licenced image of the Laguna BTCC car, which would be preferred for use in a free content encylopedia but I appreciate I'm not replacing like with like. So would anyone mind using the Laguna instead of the BMW? Alexj2002 18:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. Feel free to revert if you don't like it or disagree with the removal of the BMW V12. Alexj2002 20:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Right I'm going to take this opportunity to have a look at all photos used in the article. First up the image of Alan Jones is going to have to go. It's actually under copyright in the USA (whose laws apply on Wikipedia) so we'd need to claim fair use which isn't usually possible for a living person. Any freely licenced alternative would be much appreciated. Second there isn't a single picture of a Ford-engined Williams (with TAG/Fly Saudi liveries). If one can be found it'd be nice. The FW10 image looks good, the FW16 image looks pretty bad but it's an important car so it'll have to do. Perhaps having both the FW17 and FW18 is overkill and I think a Winfield Williams would make a nice variation to show a different livery (again provided a freely licenced image can be found). I think the Walrus-nose hp Williams should stay and one of the other two more conventional ones. I say we lose the blurrier London-demo one. Again a Compaq sponsered livery would make a good replacement to have variation in the images and to spread them through the article better. The 2006 photos can be reviewed after that section of the article has been cut down a bit. The non-F1 photos I think are OK now - 2 is plenty for section of that length, and both licences are OK. Your opinions, as always, are appreciated. Alexj2002 21:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
With regard to the Hill/Schumacher 1994 collision perhaps this needs to be sorted out once and for all on the WikiProject F1 talkpage as it's affecting quite a few articles. We need to agree on what we can say that is NPOV and backed up by reputable source. Alexj2002 23:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Where exactly on the car is the Senna "S" located? I can't seem to find it anywhere. The Senna "S" may not even exist. Bubby the Tour G 21:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
To the anonymous editor who is currently adding the team results - brave work! As I've noted on your talk page, the results you are currently working on actually refer to Frank Williams Racing Cars and should be in that article if anywhere. I suggest that it would be best if they were moved there - I note that you have footnoted them, but they shouldn't really be in this article at all. Cheers. 4u1e 08:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Currently we are using the image shown on the right for this model. I'm not a big fan of this image, the shot seems too low, not quite straight and too busy in the background. KevS has made the second photo available to us. It's not great quality at full size, but the shot composition is much better I think. When shrunk to thumbnail size, the quality becomes much less of an issue. I think we should use Kev's one instead. Which one do others prefer? Alexj2002 16:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've just trawled through this page – the 2006 paragraph is now out of date and needs altering in light of 2007 events. I'm not qualified to do so, as I don't know enough about the sport!
cheers Jlhughes 20:25, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Can someone add the last five or so F1 results to this article? and the others in the sub article can be linked to. Christopher Connor 21:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I changed the statistics a bit, because according to all statistics the WilliamsF1 team debuted in 1975 and has by now taken part in 511 Grand Prix'. Just take a look yourselves
http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/teams/4/
http://www.statsf1.com/cars/fiche.asp?IdConstructeur=102&LG=2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs) 18:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The relationship between them is mentioned under Origins. Statistically it's a different team because FWRC became Walter Wolf Racing, while WGPE was formed separately (just happened to be by the same owner). AlexJ 16:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm still not happy with the situation. All statistics refer to these teams as one. Most websites seem to refer to 1975 as Williams' debut season, and currently already having taken part in over 500 Grand Prix'. SchumiChamp 16:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Just like the headline says. WilliamsF1 and Frank Williams Racing Cars articles should me merged into one. Why, you might ask? Well, it seems to be the logical thing to do. Even the official Formula One website clearly refers to the Williams team debuting in 1975, taking 6 points (including a podium) and 9th place in the Constructors' Championship. Nearly every website with F1 statistics refers to Williams' debut season as 1975 and also have the two extra seasons counted into WilliamsF1's number of GP entries.
Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs) 09:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
A discussion is in progress at WP:F1 regarding the most appropriate name for this article. Please contribute any thoughts you have on the matter there. DH85868993 (talk) 22:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
This entire article needs to be 100% rewritten, as the language / grammar is not idiomatic English. This appears to have been written by a European who is not a native speaker of English, and while it can be followed, it is very hard to read.
This is not a criticism of the language skills of those not native to an English-speaking culture /country; clearly, they may well be excellent writers in their native language - but this article is in English, and as such should better reflect the "voice" of a native English speaker. This article does not.
JohnWRClinton (talk) 19:31, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Between the dates referenced in the article there were *five* winners of the constructors' championship - Maclaren, Williams, Ferrari, Renault and Benneton.
PDR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.49.163 (talk) 22:49, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Needs a mention, no? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.27.227.231 (talk) 13:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Williams Grand Prix Engineering's debut race was the 1977 Spanish Grand Prix albeit being with a March chassis it still counts as the teams debut race, If its referring to the teams first race as a constructor then yes it's the 1978 Argentine Grand Prix, It should be separated like how the Tyrrell article is, were it shows the teams results separated from the constructors results. Speedy Question Mark (talk) 23:01, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Now that the team name isn't anomore Williams F1 Team, Williams F1 seems outdated as the article title. The official team name is Williams Martini Racing but sponsors aren't included in article names. Their Twitter name is @WilliamsRacing and the company name is Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited. So what's the best option for the article title, Williams F1, Williams Racing, Williams Grand Grix Engineering, or something else? --August90 (talk) 13:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:59, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Williams F1 → Williams Grand Prix Engineering – This article deals with the entire company, not just with the Formula One team. Additionally the lead needs to be adapted as Williams Martini Racing only relates to the Formula One team Tvx1 (talk) 14:35, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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I've started copyedit on the article. I hope this doesn't interrupt any end-of-year updates. I expect to finish in a couple days, at which time I'll post my notes here. - Reidgreg (talk) 23:15, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I finished copyedit. There was a little bit of grammar and tenses, some overlinking, and a little bit of style and MOS minutiae. I don't mind if you want to change anything back, but you should probably discuss for a consensus decision. Here are my (lengthy) notes:
Frentzen moved to Jordanwhere Jordan was linked to Jordan Grand Prix, which sounded to me like a Grand Prix race taking place in Jordan. I changed that to "the Jordan team" on first occurrence to clarify that it wasn't a country or a race.
I'll give the article another read-through tomorrow, and will keep it on my watchlist for a few weeks. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post them here. Thanks! – Reidgreg (talk) 23:43, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
It’s definitely notable that Jamie Chadwick (female W-Series phenom) was hired as development driver. It’s shocking to see no mention of this. Alexvanburen69 (talk) 04:45, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Williams Racing Duracell F1 Team 180.195.204.66 (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Can we include Carlos Reutemann as a notable driver in the intro? He came second in 1981 which is far more than Massa ever achieved with the team... Tangost1 (talk) 23:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
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