Hello! I’d like to request an edit that reverts the addition of the “retiring” section and changes the “retiring” language to “operational.” As shown on multiple NASA resources, rockets are categorized as “operational” if they have an active manifest, not “retiring.” See where Kathy Lueders, associate administrator of NASA’s human spaceflight directorate, referenced the Dragon spacecraft’s “operational phase”: https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/11/10/nasa-formally-certifies-spacexs-crew-dragon-for-operational-astronaut-flights/ [spaceflightnow.com]
This is relevant as Atlas V has 17 flights remaining and ICPS has two missions remaining, as noted in their respective sections. We recommend that the “retiring” section be changed to “operational,” and include Vulcan Centaur following its successful first launch, or the “retiring” designation be removed entirely.
See language on NASA’s Launch Services Program Rockets webpage that refers to the Falcon Heavy as an “operational rocket”: https://www.nasa.gov/launch-services-program-rockets/ [nasa.gov]
NASA’s “Basics of Spaceflight” guide only uses “retired,” not “retiring,” and “in operational service” to describe launch vehicles in Chapter 14: https://science.nasa.gov/learn/basics-of-space-flight/chapter14-1/ [science.nasa.gov]
Lastly, NASA’s Space Shuttle was not considered “retired” until its final mission was complete: “In January 2004, President George W. Bush announced his Vision for Space Exploration. Among other goals, the Vision called for the retirement of the space shuttle after completion of the assembly of the International Space Station. In July 2011, the STS-135 mission with NASA astronauts Christopher J. Ferguson, Douglas G. Hurley, Sandra H. Magnus, and Rex J. Walheim aboard, completed that objective. During this final space shuttle mission, the last flight of the orbiter Atlantis, they delivered payloads and supplies to support the International Space Station for more than one year. The successful completion of the 12-day mission to the station brought an end to the 30-year space shuttle program.” (https://www.nasa.gov/history/10-years-ago-sts-135-the-space-shuttles-grand-finale/ [nasa.gov]) ULA Megan (talk) 17:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- We are not required to use the same language that ULA uses or that NASA uses. We are supposed to use our editorial judgement, based on what secondary sources say to describe the situation. Customers can no longer book new Atlas flights and ULA has announced EOL. In my opinion the word "retiring" most accurately describes this situation. "Retiring" does not preclude "operational", just as a "retiring" employee is still employed. -Arch dude (talk) 15:30, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your response and thoughtful feedback. I appreciate the time and care with which you’ve made edits to the page. However, I’d like to note existing Wiki content on this topic, including the “Comparison of orbital launch systems [en.wikipedia.org]” page, which categorizes launch systems as “operational,” “in development,” or “retired.” Other major launch company pages [en.wikipedia.org] also categorize launch vehicles as “current,” “in development,” or “retired.”
- Additionally, one of Wiki’s Five Pillars [en.wikipedia.org] is that content should be written from a neutral point of view. It states that “personal experiences, interpretations, or opinions do not belong on Wikipedia.”
- In accordance with Wiki content guidelines, it would be most accurate and verifiable to label rockets as I originally recommended, which is supported by the reliable sources that I cited and existing Wiki content on the subject matter. ULA Megan (talk) 17:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- As someone with no dog in this fight, I have to agree with ULA Megan. I have seen no RS that refers to Atlas V status as "retiring", or indeed any source that uses that term for any launch vehicle's status. While it's true that no additional launches can be ordered, I don't think that impacts its flight status - it shows on the "Medium-lift launch vehicle" page as operational (the only options there are "Operational", "Under development" and "Retired") and it has quite a few additional launches booked, going on until (at least) 2030 (when the ISS retires). It can certainly be stated in the text that it is going to be retired after the currently booked flights are completed, but unless you have an RS that uses that term for its status, in my opinion, you basing using that term on "In my opinion the word "retiring" most accurately describes this situation" seems to be OR. Otl1973 (talk) Otl1973 (talk) 03:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Although the final flights aren’t scheduled until 2030, the Atlas is no longer in production. We could say “no longer in production” but that’s wordy. The company CEO has said the Atlas “will retire.” So saying “retiring” seems like a brief and accurate way to describe the state of the program. RickyCourtney (talk) 03:46, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I did not make up "retirement". Here is the announcement in an article based on a statement by Tory Bruno at the time:
- Tory said "will retire". In English, "will retire" means "retiring". You (with your declared COI) seem to think "retiring" has negative connotations. I do not see it that way, but this is a subjective interpretation, so reasonable folks may disagree here. Since this article is about ULA and its products, I feel that Atlas V's retirement status is perhaps its single most relevant attribute as a ULA product. Those other Wikipedia articles are mostly about technical comparisons, not about actual availability. I do not think the two of us will reach a consensus on this, so I will wait until we get additional input.
- I'm reviewing old edit requests. Just to confirm, the issue is over the word "retiring" in the infobox after Atlas V, and the description of Atlas V as "in the process of being retired" in the lead? And the request is to remove this language and ... replace it with "operational"? The edit request mentions a "retiring section" which doesn't appear to exist anymore, so I'm not sure if this can be closed as obsolete. Rusalkii (talk) 00:48, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- Closing this. If the COI editor want anything further changed around the "retiring" language, please gain consensus of the other editors in this discussion/talk page before reopening the request. Rusalkii (talk) 06:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)