Talk:Trams in Europe

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Bergen plans tram line

Bergen is planning a tram line which is to be called "Bybanen". It may be an idea to add a note about this under "Norway".

Also noteworthy is that Bergen once had a tram line, which was shut down in '65. More here (unfortunately in Norwegian): http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikk. Bergen should thus probably be added to the "Cities that have abolished their trams".

88.91.167.62 20:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)Øyvind W.

removed list of selected cities

i don't believe there is a point to having this list on this page when there is already an fully inclusive list.

Selected cities and towns with first generation tramway networks

• Amsterdam
• Antwerp
• Basel
• Belgrade
• Bern
• Berlin (closed in West Berlin during the division of Germany)
• Bielefeld (Stadtbahn)
• Blackpool
• Bochum (Stadtbahn)
• Bremen
• Brussels (partly Pre-metro)
• Budapest
• Cologne (Stadtbahn)
• Darmstadt
• De Lijn
• Düsseldorf (Stadtbahn)
• Erfurt
• Essen (Stadtbahn)
• Geneva
• Gelsenkirchen (Stadtbahn)
• Gera
• Gotha
• Gothenburg
• Grenoble
• The Hague
• Hanover
• Helsinki
• Jena
• Krefeld
• Milan
• Munich
• Nordhausen
• Oslo
• Poznań (see also PST)
• Prague
• Rotterdam
• Vienna
• Zagreb
• Zürich

Selected cities that have abolished their trams

• Altenburg
• Belfast (1955)
• Copenhagen
• Eisenach
• Hamburg
• Paris (1930s, first European capital to do so, trams have returned to the Northern and Western Suburbs since, and return in the city in December 2006)
• London (some new Tramlink service south of the River Thames)
• Mühlhausen
• West Berlin (1967)
• Turku
• Viipuri
• Weimar

edit: L blue l 01:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Backup of section Europe in Trams

Needs syncing with main article

Western Europe

The German-speaking countries, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland (where the word for tramway is "Straßenbahn", although "Tram" is also used) are notable for their large numbers of extensive tram systems, although even in these countries, many systems were closed after the Second World War. In divided Berlin, for example, the West Berlin tramway was closed in 1967 in favour of the city's metro and bus systems, while the tram system in East Berlin was retained. Today, Berlin enjoys one of the largest tram systems in Germany, but it is confined almost entirely to the eastern part of the city.

In the Benelux countries, tram networks exist in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, Utrecht, Antwerp, Ghent and Brussels, and are gradually being extended. Additionaly, there are museum tramlines in Arnhem (Open Air Museum) and Katwijk (narrow gauge museum).

In Italy, Milan boasts one of the largest and most interesting tramway systems in Europe. The network reached its peak in the 1940s, with 310 km of tracks. Despite subsequent retrenchment and extensive metro construction, there are still 170 km of tramway today, supporting about 20 tram lines and covering virtually the entire city. In addition to several kinds of modern trams, ATM, the city's mass-transit authority, runs the most numerous and efficient Peter Witt fleet in the world. Over 150 of these reliable street cars, out of 250 rebuilt around 1990, operate daily on the streets of Milan. The original fleet of 502 was built between the late 1920s and the early 1930s. 11 Peter Witts from the Milan fleet, repainted in their original liveries, are currently operated on San Francisco's heavily crowded F-line. In addition to Milan, tram ways exist in other Italian cities including Rome, Turin, Naples, Florence, Palermo and others.

A rapidly growing number of France's major cities boast new tram or light rail networks, including Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Nantes. Recently the tram has seen a huge revival in France.

In the UK, tram systems were widely dismantled in the 1950s, only Blackpool's survived (see Blackpool tramway). However in recent years new light rail lines have been opened (for example the Croydon Tramlink, Manchester Metrolink, Sheffield Supertram and Nottingham Express Transit), with several others under consideration and extensions planned for many existing systems. The Light Rail Transit Association campaigns for the opening of new systems.

Gothenburg's popular trams travel the wide streets (the one shown here is a vintage tram, in the far back a more modern version is visible)

The city of Gothenburg, Sweden, has the most extensive network in Scandinavia (190 km on a total track length of 80 km; see Gothenburg tram), followed by the Norwegian capital Oslo. Within the inner city of Helsinki in Finland, trams have established a position as the main form of public transport.

In Spain modern tram networks have been opened in Barcelona (Trambaix and Trambesòs), Valencia, Bilbao, Alicante and Parla.

In Portugal trams were very usual between the end of the 19th century and 1960s, especially in the capital Lisbon, where the trams covered all the city. Since then, they have been replaced by modern buses and nowadays only five routes still operate (only in the historic downtown).

The Greek capital Athens opened a modern tramline in time for the 2004 Summer Olympics reintroducing the tram into the city after 41 years of absence. Plans are to be build three more lines.

In Dublin, Ireland a new tram system opened in 2004. The Luas has two unconnected on-street lines.

Trondheim, Norway has the worlds most northern tramline.

• 
  Tram in Stuttgart, Germany
• 
  A Peter Witt tram in Milan
• 
  A double-decker balloon tram in Blackpool, England

Central and Eastern Europe

All countries of the former Soviet Bloc, excluding Lithuania and Moldova, have extensive tram infrastructures. The Czech ČKD Tatra was, until the mid-1990s, the biggest producer of trams in the world. The Hungarian Ganz factory was also a notable manufacturer of trams.

The busiest traditional city tram line in the world is in Budapest, Hungary, where 50-meter long trains run at 60 to 90 second intervals at peak time and are usually packed with people.

In many cities of Russia and Ukraine, as well as in Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan, tramways are facing difficulties. Some tramway systems have suffered extensive closures of vital parts of their networks (Saint Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev) and some are facing threats of closures (Nizhniy Novgorod, Tver) or even total abandonment (Voronezh, Tbilisi). Nevertheless, Saint Petersburg's tramway network still is the largest in the world.

See also: Silesian Interurbans and Poznański Szybki Tramwaj

• 
  Tramway in Katowice, Poland
• 
  Trams lined up on Timişoara Boulevard, Bucharest , Romania
• 
  The ČKD Tatra-T3SU in the Podil neighbourhood of Kiev, Ukraine.

L blue l 05:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

West vs. East

Serbia is not Eastern Europe but Southern (only a part of Serbia northern from Sava-Danube line belongs to Central Europe). Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Spain, Finland Italy and Greece are not Western Europe.

This bisection of Europe makes no sense, apart from running into definition problems like mentioned. The subdivisions Eastern, Western, Southern, Northern, Central Europe are not clearly defined, with many, maybe even most, countries falling into two or more of them depending on source. As it is now I have to scan the lists twice to find the country I'm looking for. I suggest using a normal alphabetical list, and unless there are protests I will do so myself. jax 06:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Several country sections triplicated

This talk page and the history page gives no indication why, but an extensive part of the article (from Belgium to Norway inclusive) appears to have been triplicated by anonymous user 89.79.13.213. No substantial changes appear to have been made to the sections involved since then, so I'm just going to remove the copies. Peter Barber (talk) 14:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Yugoslavia, croatia, etc

My personal recomendation here would be to first concentrate on structure and organisation or articles (and categories) before worrying about navigation templates. To this end I would suggest creating articles Trams in XXXX as overview articles for each country, as done at Trams in France. It is possible that existing articles might be merged into these articles, or not.

Beyond that I can see that organising these articles can/will be difficult - due to multiple overlapping historical and geographic entities. Because of this I suggest organising by the names of the current states - but including any info that belongs to the name, but does not geographically fall within the current political boundaries. If there are any tricky subjects here it would be easy to create a separate article for that subject and link to it from all relevent topics. (these are just my suggestions - there probably is a better way to do it) Shortfatlad (talk) 21:04, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I oppose organizing them by current states. Having one or two tram templates simply is no good. What do you suggest happen to the Yugoslav rail article - do note, it is more than just trams.

The metro systems in the former USSR template sets the president, I would think. (LAz17 (talk) 23:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)).

I fully agree with Shortfatlad proposal. When we talk about Croatia, none of the tram system was built during the yugoslav era, but template "Urban Rail transportation in the former Austro-Hungaria" doesn't make me sense.--Ex13 (talk) 08:23, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Ex13, some tram systems listed have nothing to do with croatia as with yugoslavia - such as the ones that operated in what was Italy. According to shortfatlad, those should be removed. Hence there is room for debate. You clearly are not aware of what he said - he also suggested that the articles could have BOTH templates, as the yugoslav one is more than just tram transport. It is ridiculous to have a bosnian tram template - as there is just one system. Same for other such countries. Shortfatlad - what do you have to say to that? (LAz17 (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2010 (UTC)).

What are the italian trams - do they still operate?

Comments:

• The name "urban rail transportation in the former yugoslavia" is a bit confusing - I'd expect it to cover the period ~1918 to 1992 if it does fine - if it doesn't I think a better name is needed.
• If some states are too small then that's a good reason to have a "trams/urban rail in slovenia, bosnia, macedonia, kosovo" template. The big ones can have a separate template - it's up to you whether a country is covered in both - there are arguments for both.
• Why not apply the current templates to all articles they apply to, even if there is some duplication. eg Trams_in_Zagreb should have both templates.Shortfatlad (talk) 21:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I think that there is no need for template "urban rail transportation in the former yugoslavia"--Ex13 (talk) 21:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

(Note: I have been notified of this particular discussion by User:LAz17, but I had become involved in the issue on previous occasions.)

All politics aside, its simply cumbersome to have five or six templates most of which will have 0 content. If there is precedent then I really see no rational objections to the "urban rail transportation in the former yugoslavia" template. The title naturally refers to the 1918-1992 period, not considering Serbia and Montenegro as a "Yugoslavia". --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 11:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

But who says that we need a five or six templates? There is no need for templates at all if we have appropriate categorization. Who can stop me then to make templates named "Urban rail transportation in SE Europe", "urban rail transportation in the former Austro-Hungaria", etc.--Ex13 (talk) 17:47, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not clear why we are discussing templates which nobody has yet said they want! :)

There are currently 2 template - does anyone want to propose more? if so what? (no rhetoric please)

As Ex13 says categories are important - templates just exist to make finding related things easier than using categories - they usually work well.

As DIREKTOR says - most people would expect the 'urban rail transportation in the former yugoslavia' to refer to a specific period - I think a better title is needed if it's linking to current projects - but what? any suggestions? (It unlikely to just be deleted - but it could be replaced)Shortfatlad (talk) 18:26, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the general concensus of putting these two together on the pages. I do not have any suggestion as to how else the title could be renamed though. Cheers and thanks for helping. (LAz17 (talk) 05:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)).

As i see, LAz put his template without consensus, so i will remove it.--Ex13 (talk) 13:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The consensus was that the templates can be placed into any article to which they apply.Shortfatlad (talk) 17:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

We'll see if Ex13 understands this. (LAz17 (talk) 17:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)).

First line

Is it really necessary to rhyme of all the countries that have notable tram networks? I think this should be reworded. --NorthernCounties (talk) 17:36, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Trams in Istanbul?

Interestingly no one has mentioned the tram system in Istanbul. The first line was put into service in 1871. And the second oldest metro system in Europe, the "Tünel" was also constructed in Istanbul. --Diren Yardimli (talk) 10:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

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June 2019

Hi all,

I've embarked on what looks to be extremely ambitious by trying to clean up the article but already I've found loads of issues.

There's a lot of unsourced content, but the main issue I've found is a lot of the content has not been updated for, in some cases, over ten years ago, and is written in very poor English.

I've added the {{underconstruction}} template as I'll be back tomorrow evening (23 June) to give it another good go but from almost half an hour of editing I've only reached half way through Finland and there's several issues that I appear to have left in.

I'll update once I've finished but it looks likely that I'll be leaving quite a few maintenance tags scattered around. Please feel free to replace where necessary and I'll try my best once I've tried my best to clean up the article itself to source some material that I've left in and to update it as best I can - outside of the UK I'm not exactly well versed on the comings and going!! TC60054 (talk) 23:58, 22 June 2019 (UTC)