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These may not be the greatest references in the world, but several of them mention its popularity in Belgium as well as Holland. My wife User:ChesPal uncovered this information:
- Brood en de technologie van de broodproductie Mentions Friesland and Belgium
- Ancient Worlds: Distinctly Frisian Says its Frisian but now eaten by many Dutch
- Dutch American Recipes: Suikerbrood
- My Kitchen Treasures: Suikerbrood/Sugarbread Step by Step making Mentions Friesland and Belgium Cullen328 Let's discuss it 19:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
It'd be nice to get some pronunciation help for both the Dutch and Frisian. Anyone proficient enough in IPA to add that? LadyofShalott 20:23, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Suikerbrood is a yeast-based bread not unlike a brioche? I don't think is very much like brioche. Different flour, filling and even size... is different. Brioche has a lot of butter in it and the texture is extremely fluffy and light. Nib sugar is used only on the outside if used at all. Don't they put the nib sugar inside of the pastry dough in the suikerbrood? More like Panettone. What is that filling inside of it? Hafspajen (talk) 13:34, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
- Brioche, a kind of rich light French pastry.
I suggest the name of the article be changed to either Sugar bread or Sûkerbôle. Since the content of the article is a Frisian product and the language of the article is English, I feel that the use of a third language for the name of the article is unwarranted. -86.87.210.22 (talk) 18:52, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Pinging Drmies... LadyofShalott 21:11, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- I think that's playing the ethno-card a bit too liberally. Surely the IP knows that Dutch is still language number one in Friesland, that suikerbrood has a much broader geographical range than just "Friesland" alone, that the designation "Frisian" used to have a much broader geographical range than just "Friesland" alone, and that etc. To put it in a word, it is not a "Frisian product" if that that is meant a product made and consumed in Friesland. Thanks lady. Drmies (talk) 22:29, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I really follow though. Even if I would agree with your reasoning, I do not see why the article should be in English rather than Dutch. There is nothing typically Dutch about sûkerbôle. The sûkerbôle is a typical Frisian product. I'm not aware it's protected on a European level, and the product is definitely easily made anywhere and it is likely mass fabricated outside of Friesland (I just don't know, so I'll give you that). The product, however, is widely available outside of Friesland, but marketed as sûkerbôle. It has Frisian flags on it, it has the Frisian word sûkerbôle on it. The product has an important role in Frisian culture (Lekker beppe, sûkerbôle!) and is often brought/offered by Frisian organisations/people as a treat. I understand if the name of the article would not be in Frisian, I do not understand the reason why it should be in Dutch though. -86.87.210.22 (talk) 22:55, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Excuse me for my rambling. My head is spinning and I have trouble forming coherent thoughts, so I will do the best I can. Clearly, you are not very knowledgeable on the topic through no fault of your own and despite that you have done a great effort on contributing to this article (even though you were the one who came up with the clearly incorrect spelling sûkerbôlle). Maybe you have a specific interest in the Netherlands, Frisia, food or a combination of these and you like to write on these subjects (which I think is admirable by itself if you do or don't). Anyway, since you are not an expert on the topic I do not believe that you should have the final say on the matter (nor do I). I wish that a conversation could be started that would include multiple Dutch people on what the proper name of the article should be. In the mean time I've come up with another alternative: Frisian sugarbread (in the same spirit as Frisian handball. Note: I'm not advocating that the name should be in Frisian, I'm merely advocating that it should not be in Dutch. - 86.87.210.22 (talk) 23:25, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Surely the IP knows that Dutch is still language number one in Friesland - If Dutch is the number one language in Friesland, it would be the number one language as of yet, not still the number one language. The Frisian language is still the native language of the majority of the inhabitants of the province of Frisia.
- that suikerbrood has a much broader geographical range than just "Friesland" alone - I don't really think that is relevant. Within the Netherlands sûkerbôle is seen as a traditional Frisian product.
- that the designation "Frisian" used to have a much broader geographical range than just "Friesland" alone - this is also not relevant at all. "Frisian", in a modern, context is understood to be referencing to Western-Frisian or the Dutch province of Fryslân. This argument was not an issue at all when the name of Frisian handball was created either. -86.87.210.22 (talk) 23:47, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Dutch is the number one language in Friesland. Calling Frisian the "native" language doesn't mean it's the most spoken language there, let alone written. Everyone speaks Dutch in Friesland and you know it--you should know it, since you're not that far away. You can say what you will about how the word "Frisian" is understood, but that doesn't matter. Sure it has an origin in the area we now call Friesland. So what? It's not made or eaten in Friesland alone. As for the spelling, look it up. I didn't make it up; I got it from sources--like this one. Surely you have something made by Koopmans in your kitchen, though I don't know if they sell parelsuiker. I don't understand your eagerness to translate this title; maybe you hate the Dutch, maybe that's an Overijssel thing. We go by the most common name, and that is, IMO, the Dutch one, as colonialist as that may seem to you. Even Lekker-frysk.nl has it as suikerbrood. Now, not knowledgeable, through no fault of my own--ik neem je niet kwalijk dat je niet weet waar je over lult, maar wel dat je lult over dingen waar je niks van weet. Drmies (talk) 02:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
- I am not knowledgeable about any of this, and I have no dog in this fight. I do have a bit of insight into one of the contributors here though, and so I offer that to the IP: don't make this about "knowledge". Argue based on sources only. Drmies is (1) Dutch and (2) a linguist. LadyofShalott 02:32, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
- Dutch is the number one language in Friesland. Calling Frisian the "native" language doesn't mean it's the most spoken language there, let alone written. Everyone speaks Dutch in Friesland and you know it--you should know it, since you're not that far away. You can say what you will about how the word "Frisian" is understood, but that doesn't matter. Sure it has an origin in the area we now call Friesland. So what? It's not made or eaten in Friesland alone. As for the spelling, look it up. I didn't make it up; I got it from sources--like this one. Surely you have something made by Koopmans in your kitchen, though I don't know if they sell parelsuiker. I don't understand your eagerness to translate this title; maybe you hate the Dutch, maybe that's an Overijssel thing. We go by the most common name, and that is, IMO, the Dutch one, as colonialist as that may seem to you. Even Lekker-frysk.nl has it as suikerbrood. Now, not knowledgeable, through no fault of my own--ik neem je niet kwalijk dat je niet weet waar je over lult, maar wel dat je lult over dingen waar je niks van weet. Drmies (talk) 02:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
- I also do not believe that the French/Belgian craquelin is in any way related or similar and I do not feel that a link to or a mention of it is warranted. -86.87.210.22 (talk) 22:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- I wonder if you're thinking of thinks like "choux au craquelin", which are pastry puffs with a crunchy topping. The "Belgian craquelin" is quite different--see this, for instance. Drmies (talk) 22:33, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- I'm saying that it is quite different. I did not make the article and I did not make the links to other articles. I'm quite surprised to see that it is talking about Belgian/French craquelin and that it includes an interwiki link to French craquelin.-86.87.210.22 (talk) 23:05, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- I didn't make the link, I think, nor did I write the other articles. Drmies (talk) 02:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
- Oh, well, the French wiki article is on a brioche with pepites de sucre. Look it up: that means parelsuiker, and brioche is a kind of sweet, white bread with a lot of butter. Which is what suikerbrood is too. Drmies (talk) 02:28, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
Stating that Dutch is the number one language in Fryslân is discriminatory and a flat out lie. This product is mostly referred to as sûkerbôle, even Albert Heijn sells it as “Echte Fryske Sûkerbôle” in the entire Netherlands. On the English Wikipedia, a Frisian product should be referred to by its Frisian name. Magna Frisia (talk) 14:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
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