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I deleted this:
"and schools. (rev) Laqueur, Walter; Baumel, Judith Tydor (2001). The Holocaust encyclopedia. Yale University Press. ISBN 978-0-300-08432-0.[page needed]{ (/ref) }"
since the source posted doesn't say anything about schools.
Hello all,
An unregistered editor deleted the following statement: "The number of German civilians estimated to die of strategic bombing, about 500,000, is about the same as Germans who died of Nazi repression from 1933 to 1945." [1]
I restored it, changed the grammar, and moved it to the section on Casualties where it more logically belongs. The editor's edit summary stated that the comparison is "spurious, argumentative, and irrelevant." However, if the source is accurately quoted then it does make this comparison.The question is whether such a comparson is useful and belongs in a general article of this kind. Also note the different estimate of civilian deaths in this source.
Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- I've just checked the source, which is available online via the Cambridge Core resource, and it does include this comparison. The problem with how it's been used here is that it's been taken out of context: Gerlach appears to be noting that the deaths from bombing were due ultimately to the actions of the German regime - the relevant para starts with "In many European countries the number of non-Jewish victims of German and Axis violence – even putting military losses aside – far surpassed that of Jews who were murdered". The para also notes the millions of non-German Jews and other people who died as a result of the Nazi regime's actions, which was also excluded here. The next para puts this plainly, noting that "During World War II, Germans (and people from other powers) killed not only 6 million Jews but also 6–8 million other non-combatants". The footnote cited here also includes the 60,000 French civilians killed in the Allied bombing as part of the deaths resulting from Germany's actions. Comparing deaths from Allied bombing to artificially low figures of deaths directly caused by the Nazis is a common Holocaust denial trope. As such, I've removed this. It it was to be included, it would need to better reflect what the source says, and also note other sources on this issue. Other historians note that the Nazi regime was ultimately responsible for the bombing deaths, and this was plainly stated as part of the displays at the main museum to the bombing of Hamburg when I visited in 2015. Nick-D (talk) 10:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for checking that out. Agree with your reasons for removal. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
References
Gerlach, Christian (2016). The Extermination of the European Jews. Cambridge University Press. p. 3, fn 4. ISBN 978-0-521-70689-6. About 500,000 Germans were killed by their own regime, or by their compatriots, between 1933 and 1945 – including about 180,000 disabled people and 165,000 Jews. See Pohl 2003 , esp. pp. 35, 109. The number of Germans who fell victim to their own regime equaled the number of German civilian victims of Allied aerial bombing.
Hermann Göring has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Emiya1980 (talk) 02:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
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