Talk:Stilton cheese

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Assessment WP Derbyshire

Re assessed as the new C class - BulldozerD11 (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Fans on Wikipedia

Publunch loves Stilton.

maru dubshinki likes it too.

Nandesuka loves it, especially when served with Port wine.

BBC personality Frank Muir said (jokingly) that the way to see if a Stilton is properly ripe is to press one thumb against the cheese, and the other agains your eyeball- if the have the same feel, it's ripe.Saxophobia 10:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Dubious

I do not think the comparison with Danish Blue is correct. As I understand it the mould is injected with needles (formerly copper, now stainless steel). In Dansish Blue it is mixed with the curds before pressing. Certainly in Stilton the growth is inside the cheese, in the Danish vesion it coats the crumb of the structure. The very high lactic acid taste in the Danish product suggests other differences in process too. There are many blue-veined cheeses to which Stilton could be compared - I don't think that the Danish product is one of them. I see no reason for any such comparison at all. One does not compare cider with fizzy apple juice. -- Brunnian (talk) 16:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I do not think Danish Blue is similar. Of the characteristics of Stilton Danish Blue does not have either of these:

•Be allowed to form its own crust or coat

•Have delicate blue veins radiating from the centre

So I don't think it should be described as similar unless references can be produced.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabdiel (talk • contribs) 13:35, 26 January 2009

Cooper Thornihill anecdote

Gordon Dickson writes: My Great-Grandmother, Elizabeth Andrews (nee Jackson) 1882 - 1981 of Great Easton, Rutland told me that she was related to the makers of Stilton Cheese, because it was her cousins' relatives in Melton Mowbray, Leics who made the cheese for their cousin Cooper Thornihill, who sold it so successfully in his pub. I have no way of knowing whether there is any truth to this story, any further information would be greatly appreciated. Gwd.esq 13 November 2006

PDO: Why?

Any explanation as to why these three counties were selected? It seems a strange choice, for the same reason it is remarked on as ironic in the article. --Random832 07:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC) From the article, I gather that: The cheese was originally made in the Vale of Belvoir, on the Leics/Notts border. It was sold in the village of Stilton, but not made there. Then a Belvoir cheesemaker set up a dairy in Derbyshire. Thats why its only these three counties. Simon Q 12:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Simon - Furthermore the majority of the cheesemaking in Melton Mowbray area was stimulated by the pork pie industry - or was it the other way round - the pigs were fattened with the whey by-products of the cheese making process. Thus a circle around Melton is implied. Although Derbyshire is mentioned, the whole of the country is not really inlcuded, as only 6 creameries in total are licenced to make Stilton. Mrs Frances Pawlet, of Wymondham, sold cheeses to Mr Thornhill at the Bell, Stilton, and it was the coach traffic that called it 'Stilton Cheese'. There is a very fine presentation of the subject in the Melton Museum. -- Brunnian (talk) 16:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The acronym PDO needs to be stated in full on first use. The acronym, in parentheses, follows first use. It's how it's done ... cheesy heads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.74.192 (talk) 23:39, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

PDO: Number of Farms?

In Season 4 Episode 4 of MasterChef, Gordon Ramsay said only *five* farms are allowed to make it - so it's not clear what the discrepancy is. TaoPhoenix (talk) 18:33, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing farm and dairy. Any number of farms can contribute milk to the making of Stilton but currently only six dairies (plus one for White) produce it. http://www.stiltoncheese.co.uk/the_stilton_producers More dairies could make it if they were within the permitted area of Derbyshire, Leicestershire (potentially also Rutland) and Nottinghamshire. Nedrutland (talk) 19:05, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Chesterton

Chesterton was either an idiot, or never visited Stilton. The village is not in the Fenland, but on the Limestone hills. Brunnian (talk) 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Flavour

For all the interesting information contained in this article, there seems to be no reference to its taste (apart form the fact that it should have 'a taste profile of stilton'). Surely this king of cheeses deserves a few words describing its effect on the palate and the nose. How would we describe it without crossing into POV... rich, tasty, strong flavour, pungent, distinctive, eye-watering, tramps underpants? It could also be worth mentioning that it is an acquired taste and that while widely enjoyed in the UK, in the Far East this type of cheese is considered about as absurdly disgusting as food can get. Traveller palm (talk) 16:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it is possible to describe the taste (of this wonderful cheese) in an encyclopaedic manner unless it is in the form of a cited quotation. --TimTay (talk) 16:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why not. I accept that this should be carried out with caution, but have a look at some of the pages for other cheeses. I just did a random trawl through some of my favourites in the list of French cheeses and most of them make some attempt to describe taste and/or aroma. How about Stilton is considered quite a delicacy to many, with a crumbly texture and slightly salty taste and a much stonger flavour than most other British cheeses. It's blue veins also give it a distinctive mouldy smell which can be quite off-putting to the uninitiated. I appreciate this is potentially subjective so won't add it without refinement and popular consensus, but if other cheeses get a taste description then surely stilton deserves something. Traveller palm (talk) 19:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I find that extra maturing, ripening, ageing (before and after purchase) makes quite a big difference to the flavour, the terms I would use include: creamy, savoury, smoother, etc. 07 June 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.124.79 (talk) 07:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Characteristics

There seems to be no reference here as to whether these are actual requirements for a cheese sold as "stilton". The point which mentions blue veins surely cannot be true of white stilton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.134.132 (talk) 01:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Added the word Blue in front of the word Stilton's to correct the sentence. 9 June 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.180.87 (talk) 10:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I think the connection between flatulence and Stilton cheese is tenuous at best and you were right to clean up this paragraph. ;) Bmcln1 (talk) 09:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Im confused, it says one of the criterias is "and have a minimum of 48 per cent milk fat in the dry matter.". Then the next sentence says that it typically has 35% fat "Stilton has a typical fat content of about 35%...". How does this add up??? Furthermore, the reference (Trott, Robert E (12 January 1994). "Product Specification". Agricultural and Rural Development DOOR. European Commission. Retrieved 24 January 2016.) makes no mention of 35% nor 23%. --84.209.8.208 (talk) 15:43, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

"Dry matter" discounts the water. Bmcln1 (talk) 16:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Chronological paradox

The article says that Thornhill discovered the cheese in 1730, but later in the same paragraph it says that in 1724 Daniel Defoe described Stilton cheese as 'famous'. But 1724 is before 1730 and the cheese had not been discovered by Thornhill or named as 'Stilton' in 1724! 94.193.222.243 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Not quite true, the article states that "traditional legend has it that in 1730 Thornhill discovered a distinctive blue cheese", the use of the word 'legend' strongly implying that this version of events isn't factually accurate but that many believe it. I've added a "however" to the statements about earlier literary mentions to emphasis this. Pyrope 14:40, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Rind

I've altered a sentence that stated that the rind is edible *because* it forms naturally (compared to the rind of other cheeses like Edam). Lots of things form naturally and are highly inedible (foxgloves, death cap mushrooms, etc). I've adjusted the text so that it says that the rind forms naturally *and* is edible, to avoid the implication of causation. Macboff (talk) 19:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Precisely what does it mean that the rind forms "naturally" anyway? I eat this cheese all the time, and the rind is orange because it has a strain of bacteria growing on it, while the blue veins are a strain of fungi. I don't know what those strains are called, but it seems to me that they should be mentioned. Also, I seriously doubt that either the rind or veins occur naturally in that they are probably added to the cheese intentionally. At some point, the cheesemaker probably uses a brush to coat the rind with the appropriate culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.185.65 (talk) 09:23, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Irrelevant EU-bashing

The sentence "Thus any cheese produced in Stilton, the village in Cambridgeshire after which the cheese is named, would not be allowed to be called Stilton Cheese" gives the misleading impression that Stilton cheese is traditionally produced in Stilton. This is not the origin of the cheese - as the history section makes clear, the cheese is traditionally sold there but produced elsewhere.

The article which is referenced here is from the Metro, a paper which (together with its sister publication the Daily Mail) consistently follows a politically-motivated agenda of portraying the European Union as interfering busybodies who constantly ban things - for example by publishing an article which plays on the general public's ignorance of the history of Stilton cheese to give the false impression that the EU is interfering with British cheese-making traditions.

I suggest this sentence should be deleted on the grounds that it is irrelevant and misleading and cites an unreliable (politically biased) source - any objections? HairyDan (talk) 19:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, plenty. Where in that sentence does it say anything like what you are suggesting? The fact you mention is an anomaly in the usual run of PDO/PGI applications, wherein most protected foodstuffs with a locality-derived name are limited to production in that locality; think West Country Farmhouse Cheddar, traditional Cumberland sausage, Plymouth gin or Cornish pasty. It is therefore perfectly valid to explicitly highlight the fact that, even were a cheese produced in the town of Silton, no other cheese can use the name Stilton cheese. The political leanings of the extended Northcliffe group are merely your opinion, and although I am a long term Guardian reader and Private Eye subscriber I see nothing wrong with making the point in the way that it is presently phrased. Pyrope 04:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

pasteurisation?

That's a laugh. If Stilton has to be made from pasteurised milk it is entirely modern and unhistorical. It isn't the Stilton of the 1700s or even the 1800s. Government interference, pure and simple. When did this rule come into effect? in the past few decades? 68.71.8.85 (talk) 10:59, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Not only that, did they have "stainless steel needles" in the 1700s? Did they know about the mould bacteria they eere injecting? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.125.176 (talk) 12:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

The older Pliny made some comments in 79AD about Roquefort cheese. Blue vein cheeses have been around for that long. The penicillin bug lives in the caves around the area. Consider some French protestants, with cheese making skills, fleeing to England. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.74.192 (talk) 23:59, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Pasteurization happened in 1989 when there was a raw milk scare in the UK, which came about a year after Edwina Currie and the egg-salmonella scandal. It was a damn shame, because raw milk Stilton is unbelievably delicious and probably very safe, because it's aged for at least six months before serving. I'd like to think there are a few oddball folks out there still producing raw Stilton under the table, but sadly, it is not widely available. There was nothing like those country Christmasses with a big round of creamy raw Stilton that could feed a whole country house for weeks. But it's been a good 25 years since I've had "good Stilton" like that. Sad to say, if you weren't alive back then, you really can't imagine what you're missing.

By the way, Mrs Beeton (the famous Victorian cookbook writer, and probably the most influential English-language household advisor of the 19th century) said that Stilton was sometimes called "English Parmesan". I myself don't think they have much in common, except that Stilton was then the best of England, and Parmesan was then the best (exported and readily available) cheese of Italy. Perhaps this "British Parmesan" reference should be mentioned? Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Let me quote from the Pasteurization article, before we get all uppity about the pasteurization process: "A traditional form of pasteurization by scalding and straining of cream to increase the keeping qualities of butter was practiced in England before 1773 and was introduced to Boston in the USA by 1773." I don't think you can expect any food product to remain the same for centuries. Encapsulating the Stilton of the 1980s (or whenever EU protection was introduced) seems sensible to me. Stilton is still made in big round cheeses, although it may not appear in that form in supermarkets. The nearer you get to the Vale of Belvoir, the more likely you are to find it in that form in delicatessens, where you can have a piece cut off before your eyes. Unpasteurized Stilton is locally available too under a different name (see article). Bmcln1 (talk) 09:15, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

History

there is a suggestion that the cheese dates from 1722 when the cheese was first made at Quenby Hall for Lady Beaumont which gave it its original name of "Lady Beaumont's Cheese". More reearch into this theory would be interesting as it would pre date what is currently written on wikipedia! anyone else heard of this theory? JMRH6 (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Defoe eating maggots.

Defoe, the novelist, may have written that he was served this cheese with maggots, but has this practice ever been corroborated? Maybe Defoe was trying to be funny because he disliked the cheese. This is such a disgusting thing to read in an article about a fine cheese, that I wonder if it should be deleted until there us a secondcitation to support this.77Mike77 (talk) 12:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

His A tour thro' the whole island of Great Britain seems only patchily available online, I can only find a 1981 book quoting it. But it seems plausible enough - it's not an article to read over lunch, but the Sardinian Casu marzu is served with live Piophila casei maggots. --McGeddon (talk) 12:57, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and links. I didn't know that eating maggots was once considered haut cuisine. I can understand dumpster-divers being not too fussy when encountering some rotten carrion, but this maggot-eating angle (as a delicacy)is a new one for me.77Mike77 (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

The practice persisted at least into the 19th century but was frowned upon by Mrs Beeton in her famous book of household management. She describes what Defoe and others enjoyed using euphemisms (and concedes that it is to some peoples' taste) and in fact references it several times, including on this page. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 04:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Many invertebrates are potentially edible. If they have been raised on cheese, what else would they taste of? I see the quip "Hi, James, let loose the Gorgonzola!" dated to 1889.^[1]

Isn't an update on the maggot/mite debate overdue? Defoe seems to be vague about whether Stilton contained mites or maggots, the cheese has changed somewhat since then and I have never seen maggots in Stilton (but it might have contained mites) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.41.45.168 (talk) 12:41, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

References

"UK English"

Bmcln1 made a reference in their edit summary to 'UK English.' I've never seen someone say something like that on Wikipedia. Is there a policy for which type of English to use depending on the subject of the article? I always assumed we used American English for everything. Isenta (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

UK English is used where the subject or context is from a country where UK spelling etc. are used, e. g. the UK, Australia, N Zealand, S Africa, India etc. I expect there's a list somewhere. That would apply to punctuation rules and to usage, if possible. Often there's a note about the English to use at the beginning of the Edit page. Don't let this discourage you from adding to such pages. The spelling etc. can catch up later, if need be. With best wishes, Brian Bmcln1 (talk) 16:00, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

The policy is outlined at MOS:ENGVAR. Pyrope 16:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Great to know, thanks. Bmcln1 (talk) 17:17, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

To be honest, I assumed you knew about it already! Mostly provided as a quick guide for Isenta and any other editors who happened upon this conversation. Pyrope 18:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I should keep notes of where these things are... Best, Brian Bmcln1 (talk) 09:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Capitalisation of Blue, White?

Why is Blue and White capitalised in the text? I understand that Stilton is a name, but blue and white? Even when they don't appear as part of the "name" Stilton cheese, they are capitalised in the current text. --Treetear (talk) 13:41, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

There are two distinct cheeses made: Stilton Blue and Stilton White. I hope that answers your question. Bmcln1 (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Brexit vs PDO by the European Commission

"Both have been granted the status of a protected designation of origin (PDO) by the European Commission, which requires that only such cheese produced in the three counties of Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire may be called "Stilton"."

Is there still a PDO since Brexit? Is the Stilton cheese recognized as a PDO by the European Commission? is it written in the withdrawal agreement?

Like everything else, it continues during the transition period until the end of this year. What happens after that is anyone’s guess as it depends on the negotiations between the uk government and the eu. Neiltonks (talk) 21:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Half of a Quenby Hall Blue Stilton.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Stichelton, rennet and citations

This article formerly stated that Stichelton cheese does not use the protected name Stilton because "it does not use pasteurised milk or factory-produced rennet".

I have removed part of that claim, on the grounds that the product specification for Stilton does not, in fact, make any stipulations about the origins of the rennet used.

The current citation states that Stichelton differs from Stilton in the above respects, and that it is not permitted to use the name Stilton. However, it does not explicitly make a causal connection between those two facts.

In my opinion, this ambiguous wording makes the current citation a poor source. However, I'm not sure what to use instead, and I would appreciate help from anybody with more experience in these matters.

The maker's own site clearly states that pasteurisation is the element of the specification which they object to. However, I'm not sure whether this would be considered an appropriate source.

I'm also not sure whether there would be a WP:SYNTH issue with using the specification itself. If it is usable, I'm not sure whether it should be the EU specification in use at the time or the specification published by the UK government post-Brexit.

Lastly, should the existing citation of the EU document, as used in the "Protected characteristics" section, be updated to the working URL above, or is the archive link preferred? BCMM (talk) 14:41, 15 August 2024 (UTC)