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TCG stands for "Turkiye Cumhuriyeti Gemisi" which translates as "Republic of Turkey's Ship". There was no Republic of Turkey in 1914 and the ship being renamed "TCG Yavuz Sultan Selim" at that date is not possible. As far as I know it was named just Yavuz after the Ottoman Emperor Selim I who had earned the nickname Yavuz (cruel) because of his massacres of Turkomans in early 16th century.
The epithet "Grozny" is associated with might, power and strictness, rather than poor performance, horror or cruelty. Some authors more accurately translate it into modern English as Ivan the Awesome
How about this option? Сергей Олегович (talk) 15:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
The 1915 section reads like a biased action script. "Eagerly the Russians chased after them, the ponderous battleships at their maximum of 25 knots," "... but she spurted out of range ...," "... stern searchlights stabbed back down her wake, illuminating the sinister shapes of five destroyers ...," "The big guns of the battleships belched flame, and columns of water from exploding shells rose all around their lone opponent." 24.21.10.30 (talk) 20:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
There was a photo od Goeben, but it was deleted.Who can find another one?--Jagatai Khan 11:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Where are the captains? No mention of Rauf Orbay and his forays into Mediterranean and Red Sea.--Murat (talk) 11:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
2. Juli 1912 - 3. April 1914 | Captain Otto Philipp |
4. April 1914 - 2. Januar 1918 | Captain Richard Ackermann |
3. Januar - 2. November 1918 | Captain Albert Stoelzel |
1919-1920 | Corvette captain Vasif |
1920-1922 | Captain Lieutenant Mustafa Rasih |
1922-1923 | Captain Cevat Toydemir |
service time | Rang | Name |
1923-1924 | Corvette captain | Aziz Mahmut |
1924-1925 | Captain | Ahmet Saffet |
1925-1926 | Captain Lieutenant | Mustafa Necati |
1926-1928 | Captain | Tevfik Halit |
1928-1931 | Captain | Ahri Engin |
1931-1934 | Captain Lieutenant | Hüsnü Gökdemir |
1934-1938 | Captain Lieutenant | Ertugril Ertugrul |
1936-1938 | Captain | Ihsan Özel |
1938-1939 | DZ. KUR. ALB. | Mithat Isin |
1939-1940 | Captain | Safiyettin Dağada |
1940-1942 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Necati Özdeniz |
1942-1944 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Tacettin Talayman |
1944-1945 | Captain | Nedim Ülseven |
1945-1946 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Münci Ülhan |
1046-1947 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Kemalettin Bozkurt |
1947-1948 | DZ.KUR. | Münci Ülhan |
1948-1949 | Captain | Ndim Ülseven |
1949-1951 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Asim Sinik |
1951-1952 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Sadik Özcebe |
1952-1953 | DZ.KUR.ALB. | Naci Seyhan |
1953-1954 | Captain | Hilmi Okcugil |
1954-1955 | Captain | Edip Sahsuv Aroglu |
--Gonzosft (talk) 16:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
This article is obviously biased against the Ottoman Empire. Terms like "unfortunately" and "the tragedy of Gallipoli" are especially bad. Though Gallipoli was surely a tragedy in terms of lives lost on both sides, it is a victory that Turkish people take pride in. Also, the encounter in the Aegean Sea was only "unfortunate" for the British. (Brandonwilson (talk) 05:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC))
The introduction reads until her decommissioning in 1960, ship box names 1973 as time of decommissioning, and in the section "Post War Service", it's written In 1954 Yavuz was decommissioned. 89.201.105.23 (talk) 12:54, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
It was not proper to use the previous German name for a ship that became the flagship of the Ottoman Navy. I changed them, hope no one minds. Same with Midilli cruiser, name of the Aegean island, that was under Ottoman rule at the time, needs disambigouation, someone more capable than me should do this please. Also the the proper name of the cruiser is Hamidiye, as it is spelled here. The other one is Mecidiye. I corrected them also. Hamidiye is in desperate need of disambiguation, as it never appears as the cruiser it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.77.168.53 (talk) 06:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Couple of corrections/expansions needed here. Raglan and M28 were at anchor off Imbros Island (there's a brief article on the Battle of Imbros) when sunk. Lord Nelson was at Saloniki, but Agamemnon was at Mudros. <ref>{{cite book|last=Buxton|first=Ian|title=Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction and Operations 1914–1945|publisher=Naval Institute Press|location=Annapolis, MD|date=2008|edition=2nd, revised and expanded|pages=36–37|isbn=978-1-59114-045-0}}</ref> M17 attempted to bombard her while Yavuz was grounded, but only fired ten rounds before giving up.Buxton, p. 38 --Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:01, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The destroyers Lizard and Tigress did try to torpedo Goeben as she left the area, but were driven off.Buxton, p. 38 --Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 22:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
What exact aerial attack was Hough referring to? The 1918 attack? I'm pretty sure that he's wrong as the Germans attempted to bomb Slava a number of times in 1915–16.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Ian Rose (talk) 04:26, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Nick, nice work. The Ottoman Steam Navy might have some post-WWI stuff as well, but maybe not. One clarification that may or may not be worthwhile. Parizkaya Kommuna (sp) was ordered to the Black Sea in 1929, but arrived in early 1930.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10A17FD3F581B7A93CAA8178AD95F428285F9&scp=3&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10C15F8395912738DDDAE0A94DA415B878EF1D3&scp=4&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30A1EF83B5F17738DDDAE0A94D8415B848EF1D3&scp=6&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0911F73F581B7A93C2AB1789D95F428285F9&scp=7&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00A14FD3B5E1B728DDDA10894DA415B898EF1D3&scp=9&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F1091EFC3C5A1B7B93C6AB178AD95F428385F9&scp=10&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D15FA3C5A157A93CBA81783D85F418685F9&scp=2&sq=Yavuz&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10F14F939581B7493CBA91789D95F4D8685F9&scp=4&sq=Yavuz&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40C15FF345C177A93C6A8178BD95F4D8285F9&scp=13&sq=Goeben&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00917F73D5B107A93C4A8178BD95F478585F9&scp=8&sq=Yavuz&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F1081FF83A5D107A93C4A9178FD85F428485F9&scp=19&sq=Yavuz&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30615FA3F58147B93C1A9178ED85F438485F9&scp=18&sq=Yavuz&st=p http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60610FD3554107A93CBAB178DD85F448485F9&scp=21&sq=Yavuz&st=p —Ed (talk • majestic titan) 20:52, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Second question: is it "Turkish Government" or "Turkish government"? I thought it was the latter, but the former is used in the article. —Ed (talk • majestic titan) 07:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Please explain the reasonable reasons about this edits and this. Where did you find sentence A large warship sits motionless in harbor against the backdrop of a large city. ? Do you have sources ? Or did somebody write only with his/her impression ? I cannot think the sentence you tried to defend is so important and encyclopedic. But the sentence
is more important and we can find sources for this easily ? Why do you behave such like this ? Takabeg (talk) 12:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Why did Yavuz bombard Sevastopol on 29 October in her first operation against Imperial Russia, though the Ottoman Empire was not yet at war with the Entente? As it brought Turkey into WW1 I rather think the question should be asked. --John (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
The title is problematic. The ship made name in the WW1 by bombarding the Russian ports and later defending Bosphorus against possible Russian attacks when it was already renamed Yavuz. I don't know why it is still named Goeben ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:53, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion seems rather dated, but it does not seem resolved to me. Not by a long shot. A name is a name and it is unique. It is not a matter of language or nationality. Once the name of the ship is printed on its side, there is no other name used by anyone, from anyone's navy. Besides Yavuz is a ship of legends in that part of the World, not just for Turks. Article should certainly acknowledge this. More prominently. It has been Yavuz far longer than it was Goeben. I will come back to this. Murat (talk) 17:37, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
This is just a discussion, I did not edit any names, not sure why so defensive. Secondly, what makes this battleship most historic is the role it played in forcing Ottoman Empire into WWI, which changed a lot of history. I had added one sentence and it included reference to Enver Pasha who had planned this fait accompli. His page has a lot more information obviously. What problem did you see here?Murat (talk) 19:21, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Someone should adjust the levels on the postcard photo. It's too dark. Kendall-K1 (talk) 11:19, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
My introduction to SMS Goeben/Yavuz was in a coffetable book Anthony Preston's "Battleships 1856-1977" (Chartwell Books, 1977). It is noted in the closing pages that Yavuz was a museum ship in its last days, often "crewed" by only a caretaker and his cat. The scrapping of Yavuz left only USS Texas as an example of a Dreadnaught Era battleship. --Naaman Brown (talk) 11:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Article caption states this is "Yavuz steaming at full speed." However, summary box with this pic. from Bundesarchiv identifies it as Goeben and indicates it was taken before WWI, i.e.. before Goeben became Yavuz.
Hi, I was randomly reading fr:Artillerie française pendant la Première Guerre mondiale when I came across a paragraph which says that on 4 August Goeben was fired upon by two Canon de 19 C modèle 1875 coastal guns from the Kantara battery. (See also Caractéristiques du canon de 19 C modèle 1870 sur affût PC modèle 1886) Although the rangefinder wasn't working, the last of only four shots "shaved her poop", whereupon Goeben fled the scene at high speed.
I wondered if this snippet (or an expansion of it) would be worthy of inclusion in the article? (Well done with the FA, by the way.) If not, skip the rest, which is an attempt to find more information about some of the first shots fired in the war before Britain joined in, and some vague refs. If so, would you have confirmatory sources to hand? The following info I have hurriedly gathered agrees as to the general facts, but differs devilishly in the details.
Fort el Kantara was located half-way between Skikda and Stora (to the west), and gives its name to a hamlet of the same name: "Un lieu-dit dont le nom provient de celui d'un fort, situé entre Philippeville et Stora." See El Kantara (Philippeville ; Algérie). A beach nearby is called Plage Militaire. See Google maps. {{confuse}} El Kantara, further inland, or many similarly named places.
According to this article (in French): Les bombardements de Bône et Philippeville en 1914, section 'Le bombardement de Philippeville par le croiseur Goeben', (citing Jean Mélia, « Les Bombardements de Bône et Philippeville », Berger-Levrault éditeurs, Paris 1927), The cruiser had been flying the Russian flag, but exchanged it for that of the Imperial Navy. Goeben's attack only lasted about four or five minutes, during which 36 x 150mm shells were fired at a range of 4,500 m. As a result of this unexpected reaction, the cruiser swiftly took to the open sea (prend rapidement le large). One of the guns is in the Musée de l'armée aux Invalides, not that it matters to this article.
According to this article (in French) (again unfortunately un-reffed): Find Dans la matinée
: the coastal batteries had been alerted the morning before to the cruisers' imminent presence, and news of the declaration of war only reached Souchon at 1800 hrs on the 3rd. Find A la question du journaliste
: The Germans were aware that the coastal batteries would not be manned and ready until three or four days after the declaration of war: this information had been published in the Journal Officiel and the specialised press. Unknown to the Germans, however, small detachments of the XIXème Corps had been assigned to the batteries at Bône, Philippeville and Bougie in a state of permanent readiness. Find Vers 4h30
: A lieutenant in charge of the Kantara battery raised the alarm about 0430, but didn't have the time to adjust his rangefinder. Goeben had not been flying any colours, but at 0500 (or an hour later) she hauled up the Imperial flag and opened fire on the port. The bombardment of 50 shots lasted from 0500 to 0518 (NB more shells fired for longer than above), at the end of which the shore batteries returned fire with the only two serviceable guns out of four. None of the shots hit. Finding the intelligence reports to be faulty, Goeben broke off the action and fled rapidly towards the high seas (s'enfuit rapidement vers la haute mer).
According to this detailed and seemingly authoritative but unreffed article (in French): Historique du 6ème Groupe d'Artillerie à Pied d'Afrique, pp. 4, 5-7, {is this a banned site?} the gunners were the 12ème batterie bis (ie 12b), reservists from the former 14ème batterie, commanded by lieutenant (R.) Carnot or Cardot. Goeben steamed for cover behind the small island of Srigina, N. of Stora.
So, is it the case that the Goeben, having approached under either a false flag or none, and expecting no opposition, was scared off in her very first action by some good shooting by an alert French reserve lieutenant of artillery with only four shells? If none of this is particularly suitable, could you suggest where it might go? HC, >MinorProphet (talk) 16:43, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
the text contains two times the statement that the repairs lasted from 7 august to 19 october 1918. the first must be wrong, since is placed before 30 march 1918. it should be replaced by a statement that works in Constantinople in early 1918 allowed the vessel to cross the Black Sea (or something like, because this is what I infer from the text). pietro151.29.189.70 (talk) 20:20, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
other point: Nagara Point is not just outside the Dardanelles, but well inside (at least if the link points to the correct place). from the partial sources that I have accessed, I feel that was first grounded off the Dardanelles (where the HMS monitor attacked), then in the Nagara bay inside the Dardanelles while en route to Costantinopoli. if the site of first ground is homonym of the second, this should be stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.29.189.70 (talk) 22:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
On the whole, reading the 1918-1919 section is disturbing [this word is probably wrong, understand properly: I am not native english] because the damages appear not compatible with the movements. adding something like "this made the ship able to cross the sea to exploit the better facilities at ..." or "displaying force was essential in spite of ..." would make the reader less suspicious - I understand however that one must find a source stating this ... 151.29.189.70 (talk) 13:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
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