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I see there has been much argument below* over the specific point of origin of the drink, but regardless of whether it originated in one country or another it makes no sense to use one spelling in the title & another spelling in the rest of the article (even this talk page).
Does the common spelling use the letter 'e'? The 'e' spelling is listed first in the article, & the use of the 'e' spelling throughout the article & in other (Latin or Cyrillic) sources seems to indicate that the most prevalent spelling, especially in English, uses 'e'. If this is the case, I believe the article should use the letter 'e' too: it is not the duty of Wikipedia contributors to change convention or advocate for a new spelling if one is already generally accepted: the article should report what exists in other sources, not choose a Latin transliteration based on a spelling difference in other languages.
I will change the title spelling to match the rest of the article because it is the smallest change, but if someone wants to change it back because they believe my reasoning is flawed please also change the spelling in the rest of the article. Whatever decision is made, changing the title & leaving the spelling unchanged in the rest of the article is confusing for readers & it makes the title change look like an attempt at petty revenge.
\*Hopefully the top is the correct place to put this new section; I am not sure.
"Ryazhenka" is not a "baked milk".
Ryazhenka produced by bacterial fermentation of milk. Аctually Ryazhenka is a yoghurt without flavouring substances.
Baked milk is just boiled milk heating for some hours.
There are two different articles in Russian Wikipedia: Ryazhenka and Baked milk.
To avoid a pointless edit war, I'm starting this discussion to clarify its origin. Pre-revolutionary Russian sources called it малороссийская ряженка (from Little Russia, i.e. modern Ukraine).[1] Later official Soviet food industry books called Ryazhenka украинская простокваша - "Ukrainian soured milk".[2][3][4][5][6] The same is written in modern Russian books.[7] This shows that it originated in Ukraine and was eventually brought to Russia. Since then it also became a traditional Russian product. The name comes from пряжене молоко (Ukrainian for baked milk)[8] and not from Russian топлёное молоко. Webpages calling it Russian just learned it from Russia in modern times but they have no idea about its history. In contrast Varenets is a traditional Russian analog.
--Off-shell (talk) 23:22, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
Debunking Ukrainian origin in favor of Russian/Ukrainian
Off-shell, thanks for your update.
I wouldn’t like to start any edit wars however based on your own references, is clearly stated that Ryazhenka is a baked milk.
I can give you a large body of research that also indicates that Ryazhenka is Russian but not Ukrainian, while I believe the correct way is to denominate it as invented in both countries. Example
I think it would be much more accurate to refer to the drink as invented in East Slavic region. (--end of comment by Nswapsj, moved here by Off-shell)
Thanks Off-shell, I am glad that we agree it is baked milk! One issue resolved. we can proceed with the rest.
While your comments make sense, I think you are missing the main point and this is why you are having so many people amending the page. for example
Пасхальный домашний стол. Блюда к Великому посту и Пасхе, you are indicating that it refers to "N97. ТУРЕЦКИЙ КАЙМАК ИЛИ МАЛОРОССИЙСКАЯ РЯЖЕНКА", i.e. "Turkish kaymak or Little Russian ryazhenka". Again this is extremely inaccurate. If a book refers to something as Little Russian or Malorussian doesnt mean it is in fact from there. Example, in your argument itself it indicated, Turkish kaymak. Kaymakis not Turkish, never was and never will be. Look at the kaymak page and you will notice why the inaccuracies in referral to Ryazhenka as Ukanian prevail. Just because Turkey is where kaymak is prevalent doesn't mean it is Turkish. Little Russian is not Ukrain, as much as it is not Russia. Political boundaries and countries shift, but giving one country authority over creative rights of a traditional drink that is enjoyed across a wide area is inaccurate.
The patent of production of Ryazhenka is held in Russia[3][4],
I understand that you are referring to a number of governmental publications, but non of them indicates that the drink was created, invented or otherwise discovered in Ukraine. All of the references indicate that there is a Ukrainian ryazhenka and I do agree with that, however, and I repeat non indicate that invention is based in Ukraine. As much as you tend to disregard the Western writers and their publications as " Western chemists and biologists who never cared about the history of these products" same can be said about governmental publications of the USSR, which were publishing whatever the leaders told them to publish.
Since there is no definitive source and the place of invention is debated, similar to kaymak it should indicate the area only, such is South Easter Europe, Modern day Ukraine and Russia rather than Ukraine as a definitive location.
References
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(help)Recently, @RedBull1984: added Russia as one of the countries of origin. After doing some research, not only it is obvious to me that this is accurate, but it actually seems like there's more sources citing Russia than Ukraine. Certainly, omitting Russia as a country of origin seems like a major mistake. JimKaatFan (talk) 00:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:52, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Ryazhenka or baked milk is popular in Bulgaria too. 100.34.234.175 (talk) 05:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
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