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![]() | A fact from Ravens of the Tower of London appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 December 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Wild ravens are popularly thought to have inhabited the Tower for many centuries, the White Tower having been built in 1078–1097.
The above sentence is problematic as it insinuates there has always been a link between the Tower of London and ravens. A reference has been added supporting the construction date of the White Tower, but that's not what is being disputed (although come to mention it, it's not certain when it was completed so the date range shouldn't be giving the impression of being absolute; cf. Allen Brown & Curnow 1984, p. 12). So far, the earliest mention of ravens associated with the Tower in the article is in the 16th century. I think the way round this problem would be to replace the sentence with something along the lines of "Ravens are native to London, and the first recorded occurrence of them being associated with the Tower is xyz". Nev1 (talk) 14:10, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I found an interesting information of what the ravens eat:"As regards food, I buy fresh meat from Smithfield – liver, lamb, beef, chicken. And occasionally when I’m at my own place in Suffolk someone will give me some rabbit that’s been killed. If I see roadkill on the road, and it’s not been too badly mangled, I normally put it in a black bag and bring it back here. I give them biscuits as well, soaked in blood from the meat that I buy. And in winter I get them capsules of cod liver oil. I know they’re getting as much vitamins and oil as they possibly can. That’s why they look so healthy" Should this info be added to the article, and, if yes, to what section?--Mbz1 (talk) 05:09, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
"Wild ravens are thought to have inhabited the Tower for many centuries, supposedly first attracted there by the smell of the corpses of the executed enemies of the Crown"; I appreciate it's cited, but this is very dubious. London's main execution site was at Tyburn; there were only 112 executions at Tower Hill (plus a further seven in the Tower itself) during the 400+ years it served as an execution site. – iridescent 2 17:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
IMO this section should be shortened significantly or even taken off the article altogether. There are mention about wild ravens in the lead and in section Legends. I will add a few more sentences to the legend section tomorrow and it should be enough IMO. If by tomorrow nobody will rise an objection I will take section "ravens in the wild" off the article. --Mbz1 (talk) 03:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
IMO the section "History" and "Ravens at the Tower" should be switched places. I believe section "History" should be put right after the lead.--Mbz1 (talk) 04:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I have uploaded an alternative picture of tower of london ravens.
Does anyone think it is better than the current one the article uses?
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Cj005257 (talk) 10:23, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Although the IP gave no reason for this removal, I think it may be valid. I don't think Sax's suggestion that "instead of captive ravens, a group of free-flying ravens should be tried at the Tower" unless it can be demonstrated to have carried weight. Has it been seriously considered? If not, I think it's a piece of speculation and doesn't really enhance the article. Nev1 (talk) 00:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
This page is still reading like an entry on Boria Sax. It needs to be investigated who is posting all this stuff: Boria Sax? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.88.166.205 (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
An interesting genetic link; Apparently Raven George, dismissed for eating TV aerials, turned out to be Georgina after being posted to the Welsh Mountain Zoo, and laying an egg, the product of which, Gwyllum, now serves at the Tower. http://www.hrp.org.uk/Resources/ravens_(new)_2.pdf 5.64.251.26 (talk) 16:52, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
"The first reference to an early version of the legend that Britain will fall if the ravens leave the Tower comes from July, 1944, when ravens were being used as unofficial spotters for enemy bombs and planes during the Blitz."
According to the Wikipedia article on The Blitz, this bombing campaign lasted until May of 1941. I suggest that 'during the Blitz' be changed to 'during Woirld War II' or words to that effect.79.55.117.135 (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Apologies if either is in the article already. Doug Weller talk 15:31, 24 March 2018 (UTC) Also Doug Weller talk 15:33, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
Sometimes the birds' individual names are in quotes, other times not. One or the other should be chosen for consistency. Although I personally prefer not using quotes, I don't want to change anything without a consensus. 2606:A000:1126:28D:5D06:FE8F:7BF9:F10B (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The White Tower of London I know was built by William the Conqueror. I don't see how it relates to ravens and prophetic powers. The thesis that supports the Latin presence and the contribution of prosperity and civilization by the gens Valeria is instead much more documented through written documents and archaeological finds. Londinium was founded right where the city of London is and the Roman oppidum once stood where the tower is. Probably the Norman William wanted to build a tower, yes to control the surrounding area, but also as a form of affirmation on a powerful and legendary empire like the Roman one: what once belonged to the Romans today belonged to him. The gens Valeria must have left behind a well-being that they have never found again, so much so that the lack of that well-being has been associated with decadence. Ravens symbolize the prophetic abilities of Apollo and it is likely that they are the symbol of the gens Valeria who carried the cognomen Corvus or Corvinus from the day when after the victory brought by the raven who landed on his helmet and subsequently he was consul many times. 80.181.153.67 (talk) 00:06, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
The Corbet family is an English family of Anglo-Norman extraction that became one of the most powerful and richest of the landed gentry in Shropshire.
Brân is the modern Welsh word for raven. May the legend of the Brân (King of the Britons) be related to the Corbet family??? The Corbet family appears to be Anglo-Norman. Maybe they were Bran's enemies? The Corbet family's protective ravens (perhaps of Latin origin) were used against that way? As to fight on equal terms (ravens against ravens). A sort of disarmament of the enemy.
Which work did the members of the Corbet family do? Were they the ancient guardians of the Tower of London? Why would a king of the Britons cut off an Irishman's head and then turn it towards France (where Normandy is)??? Was the Irishman a Norman? Why did William the Conqueror have the White Tower built?
They look like nonsense as they are written. They don't seem to be a valid reason to have ravens in the tower. Could you answer the questions by enriching the page and solving these puzzles??? 79.31.255.39 (talk) 02:25, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
Reading about the legend, we learn that the Tower of London was built under the White Tower. It was built from the end of 1066 as part of the Norman conquest of England. The White Tower, which gives the whole castle its name, was built by William the Conqueror in 1078, and was a symbol of the order on London by the new rulers. It was supposedly built where Bran's talking head was buried. For reasons of logic, if Bran's head was buried in the direction of France, where there was Normanidia (land of the Normans), it was probably placed there against the Normans. Probably William's construction on the white hill is due both to strategic reasons and to the claim of having conquered what was previously Bran's.
It is not clear what the legend of Bran has to do with the ravens of the Tower. The only thing is the meaning of the name Bran in Welsh (raven). Indeed there is a family of Norman origin: Corbet. The Corbet family had the main estates on the Welsh border, and this does not make it clear whether it has anything to do with Bran or perhaps with the later introduction of ravens to the tower (the White Tower was built by William).
Another curious thing is the common veneration for ravens, both by the Italian family of Roccascalegna (Corvo) and at the Tower of London. The Italian family bears an imperial raven (corvus corax) on its coat of arms and has a crest like that of the Aragon family (an outgoing dragon - perhaps for accession to the order of the dragon together with the King of Spain). The curious thing is that England uses the flag of San Giorgio and that the Italian family adored this saint so much that they frequented an ancient church dedicated to San Giorgio in the city of Naples.
The question that arises is whether there were links between the Norman King William and the descendants of these Corbet (in England) and Corvo (in Italy) families. Had the Normans who conquered England mixed up with descendants of the Romans? Did the Normans set out to rebuild the old lost empire? 79.41.249.13 (talk) 17:45, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Could their be a list of current Ravens' names plus which colour tag each raven has so people can identify and greet the ravens they meet if they visit the Tower? Lucas73 (talk) 07:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
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