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(The proper spelling of the Iranian New Year)
Upon the recommendation of prominent Iranian scholars, most Iranian societies and foundations outside Iran, Iranian Cultural Heritage Organization and Cultural Research Bureau (Tehran), and upon the approval of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), and most importantly, for the consistency within the International Iranian Community, we should all write the name of the Iranian New Year with this spelling:
—Remark by 128.230.136.12 on 10 March 2006
(Essentially same text as above was added to main article also.)
I have removed this as it was unreferenced and not really needed in the intro. --Kash 15:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
First of all Nowruz is way off. That's not even how we pronounce it in Persian. The closest things are Norouz and Norooz. Between the two, Norooz has been accepted by more people, has over way more Google hits and is simple simpler.Hooman 17:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Response: Maybe some committees decided they liked that spelling, but spelling is a hard thing to impose on people, and that spelling doesn't appear to be particularly popular. As I understand it, typically, in English, dictionaries and such reference material are supposed to just document the common spellings that people use — not try to force people to follow declarations made by committees. Also note that not all official sources agree, since a child was ejected from the 2006 Scripps National Spelling Bee for not coming up with "nauruz" (see trivia section in main article). For example, today (17 June 2006) Google shows 183,000 hits for "norooz", 113,000 hits for "nawruz", 106,000 hits for "norouz", 76,000 hits for "noruz", 25,000 hits for "nowrouz", 890 hits for "nauruz" (185 of which also contain "spelling bee"), etc.
—Wookipedian 03:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
They are independent languages, unintelligible for Persians, although they have some shared roots with persian. Heja Helweda 19:03, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Norouz is not only celebrated by Iranians but also all the peoples who were part of the historical "Persian" family. This ancient group has been divided into many new ethnic groups, which today are different from Iranians but still retain some aspects of their Persian ancestory. These groups include the Kurds, Pasthuns, Tajiks and the people of both Tajikistan and Afghanistan. Not only do these groups celebrate persian holidays like Norouz and Yelda, their language is related to Persian. In fact, Tajiki and Dari (the offical languages of Tajikistan and Afghanistan) are just different names for Persian; while Pashtu and Kurdish are just a virant of Persian. Perhaps one day these diverese groups, can remember there common ancestory and unite to form a once again mighty Persian empire, much to the dismay of their enemies and corrupt neighbours.
--138.130.32.229 12:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
What are your talking about? First of all it's called the Iranian family, wich persians are a part of. Persians were not a common ancestor to theis peoples. In fact the Kurds ancestors where only partially aryan(iranian). The kurds ancestors are various indo-european peoples who settled the kurdish mountains long before the aryans came to this area. Acording to the anatolian-theory and new scientific evidence, the kurdish mountains was were the indo-europeans originated. When later the indo-european aryan people came to this area the kurds were homogenized and aryanized. So to say that the kurds are iranian is only partially true but to say that the kurds are the offspring of the perians is very wrong and to say that Kurdish is "just a variant of Persian" is VERY wrong.
--138.130.32.229 12:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Could someone verify and/or clean this up? —Ashley Y 04:22, 2005 Mar 11 (UTC)
That depends. Jam Shid is also held by modern Zoroastrians to have been the original prophet of Zoroastrianism (as well as the first man, also known as Yima), Zarathushtra himself only repeating the message several thousand years later. It should be noted that for Persian Zoroastrians, the progenitor of persian identity itself was Jam Shid. I think "clearing it up" to add Jamshid would require significant revisions to major parts of the article. --Venerable Bede 21:46, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Jamshid was an Iranian king but not of Persia, but of whole Iranzamin! --ShapurAriani 20:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'm not actually Persian nor have I even witnessed this, so I'm sure there are errors... —Ashley Y 03:58, 2005 Mar 13 (UTC)
The biggest oversight is the ommission of Hajji Ferouz, the "Santa Claus" of Iran.--Aufidius 00:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I am not actually a Persian, but in Ismaili Muslim Community Nauroz is celebrated as a religious festival. An egg is syombolised for the new year.
I know there are many cultures that celebrate it, but Norouz is more commonly known for being persian (Iranian) and I think they should be kept separate.
Näwrüz redirected here, the contents were already present so nothing is changed. Kaveh 12:24, 8 December 2005 (UTC)Milk
See Persian means "Fars" or "Farsi." It does not mean Irani so when you use it instead of Iranian or Irani it excludes other Iranians like Kurds who celebrate Norouz all over Kurdistan. That is why they get offended. Iranians never refered to Iran as Persia either and always as Iran. Persians are a sub-group of Iranians just like Kurds, Lurs, and Balouch.
I suggest to move the page to Newroz because the later spelling is more common than Nozouz or anything else. Thank you.
Diyako Talk + 21:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
The "Newroz" page should be added to Norouz, as the basic principles of the celebration are the same. The former is an ethnic variation of the main Norouz celebration, just as there is a section on the Afghan variant, or indeed, even Bahai, under the heading of "Norouz". The celebration is an Iranian one, which with the break-up of the country through the centuries, has become a "Pan-Iranian" festivity. So it is celebrated in all countries where the are or have been Iranians, such as Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, etc. Kurds are not different to the rest of Iranians in that they make up one of the basic elements from which the country was made up over two and a half millenia ago, just as Brittany is a part of France, Yorkshire is a part of UK, California is a part of USA, Bavaria is a part of Germany, and so on. Each has a slight variation in their local cultures and traditions, but that does not make them a separate nation. The empire was founded by a half-Persian/half Mede king who unified the people living in the region into one nation. The Kurdish separatists, just like the Azeri, Arab, and Afghan separatists before them have ulterior motives, often with the support, backing and provocation of foreign powers who want to break up the nation. The break up of the country is a backward step towards the time when we were tribes fighting with our neighbours over scraps.
There is only one Christmas, there is only one Hannukah, there is only one Diwali. Let there be only one Norouz, and may it forever be Pirouz (victor)!
On 16:20, 23 February 2006 Shervink changed
Actually, I see the new version as being the more inaccurate of the two, but this could be a matter of semantics: in Iran itself, Persia is apparently considered to be restricted to Pars (Fars), wheras outside Iran, Persia is equated with everything that once was the Persian Empire (Iranians who live outside Iran do this too).
But:
Incidentally, Jamshid, who is also said to have introduced Norouz, is a character of Persian mythology - the name of which has nothing to do with the region of Pars (or Fars), as the Greeks used it, but with the the concept of the Persian empire, which was a vast area. Moreover, the Shahnameh is Persian literature, in the Persian language.
Suggestion: rephrase the sentence
-- Fullstop 12:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Newroz existed thousands years before Iranian invaders. Especially among babylons, Akkads, and other non-Iranian peoples of Middle East. The article almost claims it is originally Iranian!Diyako Talk + 23:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems that the Persian and the Kurdish Newroz are two quite different things. What about splitting it up in two articles? Biji Newroz! Bertilvidet 15:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
If this is true the claim that "Nowruz ... is a public holiday in Turkey, where it is called Bayram in Turkish and Newroz in Kurdish" in this article is probably not true. According to the name is NEVRUZ --Fasten 17:55, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
"Nevruz, a composite noun combining Nev (new) and Ruz (day), means new day and is a mythologic day celebrated as New Year’s Day by Turks living in Central Asia, Anatolian Turks and Persians. " --Kash 20:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I think it is a good idea --Kash 21:23, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
"I guess the history is the same, and I dont know if the current ways of celebrating it are the same among Kurds as among Persians. It would be OK for me if this article solely deals with political implications of the Kurdish celebrations of Newroz - in the case that the history, traditions and rites are the same." --Kash 21:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the merge. Specially about Kurdish version since it is almost exactly the same. The minor differences, and they are minor, can be mentioned in a section in main page Norouz which is an Iranian (not Persian but Iranian) celebration. We can have section called Kurdish Version and differences are not going to be more than a few sentences!! having a separate page is useless since it is just repeating the same stuff. it is exactly as khoikhoi said, similar to having a christmas page for every christian coutnry.
Gol 22:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
First, every one, let me congratulate you on the occasion of Norouz (with whatever spelling) and wish you a new year of health, prosperity, openness, truth, and new beginnings. This issue is so ridiculously clear there is absolutely no reason for discussion. Norouz is not a Kurdish festival, it is Iranian, and thus also celebrated by Kurds like all other Iranians. The article claiming it is merely Kurdish or Turkish must be deleted, and any attempt at preserving such a thing is nothing short of vandalism. It is a disgusting lie, it is essentially in no way different than for example saying George Bush is Japanese. Both are lies, and both would be vandalism. Articles such as this cannot destroy the ancient Iranian identity. The real thing we should be worried about here is the credibility of Wikipedia, which is decreasing day by day due to the nonsense added to it by a bunch of idiots. Shervink 23:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)shervink
First the festival of spring is not only common among Iranians, there are many other nations who celebrate it, second I do not think all of the world belong to Russia or USA, you are claiming that this should only be Iranian. Third, Kurdish spring festival Kurdish Newroz is different than other nations festivals such as Iranian Norouz. I think we should be at least a litttle neutral and accept that this world is much bigger than Iran, and Iran and Iranians are just part of this world. Diyako Talk + 23:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
So, you say Diyako, yet, you still disrupt this and other articles in order to inject some unsubstantiated Kurdish notions to these articles. At some point some actions can be called vandalism, e.g., erasing sections that come with scholary sources like that of Western scholars. Just be warned please that you need to be factual and work with others. Zmmz 00:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
If Norouz has political significance for Kurds, it can be mentioned in the Kurdistan page or the Kurdish people page or if we have a page related to Kurdish politics or even briefly in the Norouz article itself. Having separate articles creates the misunderstanding that Kurdish version is different while it is in fact identical. I have read the whole page and it is simply repeating the same stuff. One paragraph in the main page Norouz is enough to describe all the MINOR differences that exist.
thank you
Gol 09:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Merge, definitely. Kaveh 09:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Kaveh actually didn't. I was wrong and I apology for my false accusations. Bertilvidet 11:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Respected user Diyako
First and foremost Newroz píroz be!( newrozet pirozbad...now that wasnt very different) I understand your concern about trying to highlight what extra political significance newroz may have had for our kurdish brothers in turkey and syria and I am sure you do not believe that the two festivals are different its true the coming of spring may have had an important place in many ancient cultures but the philosophy of the merge is to embrace one's kurdish brother rather than say your christmass tree is yellow compared to my towering and tall one
Please your article on newroz is quite significant in that it actually proves that kurds are part of the Iranian family since the ban takes place in turkey and syria while the smoke over Bukan is visible in all its glory and the further from the capital of the islamic republic the more well preserved are the traditions.
But in order to respect the unity of it all rephrase your newroz as newroz and the recent kurdish history or newroz survival and politics wherein you could with the help of other editors emphasise how the survival of this festival amid attacks of cultural wipeout by khomeinism among other anti culture movements has become a symbol of an ancient unified heritage
Again a happy newroz to all kurds Lurs Azeris Baluchs Tajiks Gilakis Mazis and all the other glorious flowers on this beautiful carpet of human history and culture--Loosekarma 03:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Why this is the Kurdish Newroz article that should be removed in the name of Merge?? why not the Iranian one? Diyako Talk + 10:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Deat co-editors.
When I yesterday proposed a seperate article for the Kurdish celebrations I had no hint that it could create such an outcry. It is however highly disprutive and not fruitful for seeking consensus and a climate for willingness to compromise to repetively delete the article that is written about the Kurdish Newroz. May I suggest that we respect the sensitivities of our Iranian co-editors and rename the Newroz-article to "Kurdish Newroz celebrations" or limit it to "Newroz in Turkey". Bertilvidet 10:30, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I did. Diyako ;;;;Talk + 10:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
But today i have collected much info on the Kurdish celebration of Newroz. in any case I support existance of such article. Diyako Talk + 10:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear kaveh, First when I came I thought you have removed the article, when I saw the moved page, thought that it is not a bad Idea but really the title was not properDiyako Talk + 10:54, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikstan all are Persian-speaking while Kurds are Kurdish-speaking, They have their own name for their festival. No need for Persian names.Diyako Talk + 19:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a Kurdish new year festival and it has and deserves it own article. You have not the write to censor it. Diyako Talk + 15:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
References: Noruz at Encyclopedia Britannica:
Noruz as the festival associated with Iranian new year:
NOROOZ, THE NEW YEAR OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLES by The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies at University of London:((Removed link, its blacklisted!))
Stop vandalism! --Sina Kardar18:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Indeed an interesting point. It is a matter of fact that Kurds celebrate Newroz every year, and that this celebration is an important manifestation of Kurdish identity. Is it vandalism to describe this fact on Wikipedia? If yes, you should also attack the article Christmas_customs_in_the_Philippines. Bertilvidet 18:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
May I suggest you to take your debate at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy. Then the rest of us can try to reach a compromise that satifies all parts in meantime. Bertilvidet 18:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I have to admit I'm disappointed Bertilvidet. We agreed on a title similar to the Philippines example. But I see the "Newruz" article was maintained. In addition, Diyako seems to be only interested in inserting the common Kurdish transliteration of the word more than having an article on Norouz/Newruz and its impact on the Kurdish people. If this is what you both seek there is no point in further discussions. Kaveh 18:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
First your source does not claim Norouz is Iranian or at least merely Iranian, your third source is biased and is not a neutral one. I have discussed it before. for eample look at its biased slogan in the right corner above the page that says if there is no iran I'll die!! or that petition against oppressed azeri people In Iran. Secondly, My sources are not Kurdish also the are many Kurdish ones but I only have provided source from non-Kurdish sources or at least articles which are written by non-Kurdish people. Thrd, As I said there is a Kurdish New year and Newroz is its celebration and deseves it own article. Diyako Talk + 18:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Turkey too has decided to declare Norooz a holiday. It is also celebrated as the New Year by the people of the Iranian stock, particularly the Kurds a, in the neighboring countries of Georgia, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey.
-- Sina Kardar19:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Summary: There exist no Non-Iranian Kurdish Norooz. --Sina Kardar20:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Can we reach common ground on these 6 guiding principles?
1. The current ”Newroz” article is renamed ”Kurdish Newroz Celebrations”.
2. All transliterations of نوروز (including Newroz) redirects to ”Norouz”
3. At the top of the ”Norouz” article there is a link to ”Kurdish Newroz Celebrations”.
4. The ”Norouz” article gives a comprehensive coverage of Norouz, both its history, contemporary celebrations and variations.
5. The ” Kurdish Newroz Celebrations” article focuses mainly on contemporary Newroz celebrations among Kurds, including its political implications.
6. If desired, everyone is free to set up additional articles covering local/regional variations of Norouz.
I kindly request you to only discuss these proposals in this section. How the history will be written etc. will be dealt with later. Bertilvidet 20:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
--User:Sina Kardar20:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Neither نوروز, norouz nor newroz is English. In English language Neworz is however used when talking about the Kurdish celebrations. Bertilvidet 21:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean, I've provided several non-Kurdish neutral, reliable and verifiable sources that Newroz is the Kurdish celebration of spring. Iran has a Kurdish community which during history there have been too much animosity between them and the central government, The Iranians want to assimilate Kurds but Kurds resist, here I see the same anti-Kurdish political POV. Diyako Talk + 20:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
First we have to put it in the Norouz article, and if it was necessary to have a seperate page for it (unlikely) then we can do that later. --Kash 21:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
"The Iranians want to assimilate Kurds but Kurds resist, here I see the same anti-Kurdish political POV " Iam sorry but how is the idea of the joint celebration of the same festival anti kurdish ...if you invite a relative over to celebrate new year is that then a political attack I tried to convince you to rephrase your article's title ...Bertilvidet mentions christmass in Poland which was close to my earlier suggestion to have an article on the "Newroz and Kurds" or as Jeff3000 suggested a section on regional variations in the main one. or what I thought would be an even more interesting article such as "Newroz, survival and politics" wherein you could with the help of other editors emphasise how the survival of this festival amid attacks of cultural wipeout by anti culture movements in history be it arab invasion or recent despotic regimes in mid east has become a symbol of an ancient unified heritage....since the preservation of it has been a triumph for all Iranian people be it the one's under soviets or baath party or the islamic republic of Imam e Zaman
but if unified joy in this ancient custom and joint celebration is anti Kurdish POV then Bertilvidet shouldnt conclude that Kurds have no friends but the mountains ... but that our friend Diyako considers our greetings as an insult--Loosekarma 23:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I've updated the Norouz article, but in my user space, so no one gets mad. It's currently at User:Jeff3000/Norouz. Please take a look and comment, and make changes on that page. If enough people think it's ok, we can move it back here. -- Jeff3000 05:47, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
The omnipresent flags are not PKK flags, but the symbol of the Democratic Society Party. Turkish authorities would never tolerate a PKK rally. The celebration was organized by a range of Kurdish cultural groups, political parties, and I think also the main Turkish Human Right organisation. Bertilvidet 11:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
You can call it mix of festival, celebration and political rally. Or a politisized celebration. The fire pic is from the same event. Democratic Society Party is one among other organising groups. I find thus the current despriction misleading, but refuse to embark in an edit war. Bertilvidet 12:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
The event does indeed have both political connotations and implications. These can be elaborated in the article. But still it is a celebration. A political rally would be used to show a common opinion and have some common political demands - this is the case for many Kurdish demonstrations, but not for the Newroz celebration. In fact there are no political messages on the banners (except the symbol of a party, and the text Biji Newroz) Bertilvidet 12:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Norouz is NOT an Avestan word. I can post hundreds of links to prove this. I have NEVER seen the word being referred to as "Avestan", therefore I have made the appropriate changes. Dariush4444 02:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Why is it that there are numerous references to the bahai fate of islam in a Norouz article? I mean isn't all those billions of dollars you bahais have somehow, enuff for you? You still making commercial for your fate, and in no other article than the norouz, the several thousand year old celebration of new year! --Darkred 18:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
You wrote "bahai fate of islam", and I note that the Baha'i Faith is not of Islam; it spread out of a Islamic religious milieu, just as Christianity spread out of a Judaic mileue. Please assume good faith; this is not a commercial, the Baha'is of all origins celebrate the religion; this is both verifiable and reliable, and will add a lot of references if you want, but I don't want to take over a page that currently does not have a references section at all. Please read the pages on Wikipedia:Verifiability, and since Naw Ruz as celebrated by Baha'is is verifiable, it deserves inclusion; this is Wikipedia policy, and it was what I was referring to when saying Wikipedia reports on facts. Secondly, the summary at the top is indeed just that; it mentions two things in regards to the Baha'is; the first is in regard to who celebrates the event, and that includes people from "Iran, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Turkey, Zanzibar, Albania, and various countries of Central Asia,", and their diaspora, but it also is celebrated by Baha'is of all origins, American, Chinese, etc, and this is a significant difference, and should be noted. Secondly the summary mentions that it is the beginning of two calendars, the Baha'i calendar is quite distinct from the Iranian year (19 months of 19 days, + 4 intercalary days). I don't want to get into an argument in regard to Baha'is and Iranians, but when the Iranian government (not Iranian people) have persecuted Baha'is throughout their existence in Iran, how do you expect them to feel (I'm not saying it's right, but it becomes very easy to disassociate yourself from a group that you feel is being unfair towards you). -- Jeff3000 03:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I am not a religious man myself so i can assure you i have no bad intentions against bahais or you as a person, please assume good faith. --Darkred 04:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I have slightly seperated the Iranian new year from the Baha'i new year, to make sure that no one would confuse the two, and yet you removed it again. It is verifiable information, and does not make sense moving it to another place in the intro. Please do not remove it. -- Jeff3000 04:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes slightly, i compromised last time and let it all be, but still you wont compromise. That sentence about bahai new year does not belong there, like i said before it is already stated in the bahai section of the same article. Furthermore if you mention the bahai new year at top then we might as well mention all the other iranian ethnic group's exclusive date of the new year. I don't see any reason why the bahai should have this privilege over other groups and be mentioned twise on the top of the page! --Darkred 05:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Because of the reason i said above: why the bahai should have this privilege over other groups and be mentioned twise on the top of the page! --Darkred 05:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I will let this go for now, but later may call in RfC to settle this dispute. --Darkred 05:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
It was too large, it already has its own main article so it doesn't need to be too big on this page -- - K a s h Talk | email 10:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
"Zardiye man az to, sorkhiye to az man" should be understood as an abbriviatio of
"Zaridye man az AANE to, sorkhiye to az AANE man" literally: "May my yelleowness belong to you, May your redness belong to me". This in turn symbolized the wish to receive power and health (redness) from and purify the illnesses (yellowness) by fire (in accordance to the holy place fire has in zorostrian faith).130.225.0.210 18:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence of this article gives the IPA pronunciation as "Nowruz". This doesn't look like an IPA pronunciation, although admittedly I could be wrong. --Metropolitan90 05:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Why dont we just create another article like Christmas worldwide, instead of having one article for each group that celebrates this holiday. Its the same holiday, we should not have so many seperate articles, whats to stop someone from making German Christmans, French Christmas, Chinese Christmas, etc...?Azerbaijani 21:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
This idea is just preposterous. We have articles like Philippine Christmas traditions and Polish Christmas traditions thus why not have Kurdish Newroz and Persian Newroz and a main Newroz article. Let's remember Christmas is an equivalent celebration to Newroz. Ozgur Gerilla 12:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, those are countries not an ethnic group. Secondly, they are based on different traditions celebrating a festival, however Kurds celebrate it the same. The article existed for a year and no reference has yet been provided to show that the traditions are different to how anyone else celebrates it; it was full of nonsense like "it is a kurdish word and not related to Iran or Turkey", which were not only politically motivated statements but also completley untrue and unreferenced rhetorics. Supporting Kurdish human rights is one thing, making up random facts is another --Rayis 15:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
So what are you suggesting, that a countries tradition and celebration is unique enough to be on Wikipedia but not ethnic groups differences. This is not really logical. It's different; from the way Kurds centrelise the fire and symbolize it from the story. Keep the article and my team (WikiProject Kurdistan) will provide the necessary references. Ozgur Gerilla 16:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Fire is an important part of the festival and Norouz is a fundamental Zoroastrian festival, so of course fire is very symbolic in it. The legend behind what Norouz celebrate is exactly the same as Iranians. Any other difference is minor, please provide your references (reliable, neutral, third party sources) now, it has already been a year. --Rayis 13:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The article, "Kurdish celebration of Newroz" should be merged into this section. It is the same holiday. Norouz is the ancient Persian new year. The celebration comes from the Zoroastrian religion. Kurds are one of the ancient Iranian tribes and event today their closest relatives are Persian people. Kurds share their culture and heritage with Persians and other Iranian people. There should not be a duplicate article....it is just confusing for people who are not familiar with the subject.Dariush4444 01:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The source provided for the etymology section was from an article in Online Encyclopaedia. At the end of the article, it states that This article is from Wikipedia. so I removed it. I am sure better sources can be found.Heja Helweda 19:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I get the impression that Noruz is a Persian-Turkish holiday, so do the Tajiks (who are Persian) who live in China celebrate this as well? Le Anh-Huy 23:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is there no section about Haji Firuz? I cant find any good information about this guy anywhere. But from what I've been told, he's a slave who has been freed by the Persians and is celebrating Norouz through silly songs and laughter 216.175.76.251 06:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)Sam
Actually Haji Firouz is a representation of a dancing flame. It brings word of the coming new year with joy. His/her face is the black ash of the fire and the clothes are the color of the flame itself.(----)
Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. D.Kurdistani 09:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Archives:
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bsm. please describe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.191.15.10 (talk) 08:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Alright, there is a section on hajii firouz but nothing on baba norouz who is even a more persistant cultural icon. M87 23:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Support - I agree, Amoo (uncle) Nowrooz is in a way our equivalent of santa claus and Haji Firooz would be more of a (santas little helper). There should certainly be a section devoted to Amoo Nowrooz. --205.222.248.176 (talk) 12:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I added a tag to the claim that Nowruz is 15,000 years old. The claim is ridiculous obviously because the earliest human settlement (city) - Çatalhöyük dates back to 7500 BCE. Obviously, there could be no king Jamshed 15,000 years ago, or no such evidence is produced so far. Atabek (talk) 16:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I think Atabek did the right thing for putting a tag, where as Meowy should not have acted bold. That section should go into mythology not history. Here is some links with this regard: []. The ice age in this case has to do with the fact that in some Zoroastrian texts, there was a great ice-age (like the great flood) and Jamshid was responsible for bringing all men and Animals to a special place to guard from the ice age. This is covered in "The legend of the great flood in Zoroastrian tradition" and an old Pahlavi manuscript has described this myth. In Iranian mythology, Jamshid is credited with the foundation of Noruz. He is also said to have lived for 1000 years (very similar to Noah). On exactly when the mythical Jamshid lived, one can look at classical Islamic texts and Tabari. The great ice age that Jamshid saved mankind from by building a subterraneans space should not necessarily be taken as the historic ice age. It might be coincidence that such an ice age/winter is mentioned in Zoroastrian texts or some people might argue that many myths develop from historic events. This is described in Iranian mythology, I'll see where I can fit a mythology section. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
The article states that Turkey removed a ban on celebrating Nowruz in 1995. But the source given (14), which by the way does not seem to be too reliable, states it was in 2000. I changed the year from 1995 to 2000 because it matches the source and then it is consistent with what I was told myself in Diyarbakir in 2005 (and published in a renowned Spanish weekly, so it's not entirely original research...). On the other hand, the same article states that Turkey adopted the festival in 1995 as a national Turkish festival, which would be very odd if it stayed banned at the same time. The source for the adoption in 1995 can't be read online, so I can't check if it's correctly attributed. Anybody there with more information? Thanks!--Ilyacadiz (talk) 00:13, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The claim Following the conquest of Mesopotamia by Cyrus the Great, the founder of Persian Empire, he changed the time of new year from autumn equinox to spring equinox in 538 BC. He followed the pattern of the Mesopotamian festival of Akitu, the divine festival for the sky God of Marduk. in the article looks suspicious. The source is (p. 311 of "Traditional Festivals: A Multicultural Encyclopedia", ISBN 1576070891 ). Look at other publications of the author Christian Roy. There are three problems. 1. The claim in the book is not supported by scholars (at least I can not find.) 2. The claim in the book is not given any reference to Ancient or primary sources. 3. A writer of comic-children stuff is not an RS on ancient history. Should I remove this source and its claim?--Xashaiar (talk) 17:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi, This is another source written by Boyce who is very famous orientation on relation between Akitu and Persian Newyear: []--St. Hubert (talk) 19:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
What original research? I extracted these materials from the page 3-4 of the Boyce book. I do not have time right now. If you want, you can remove the Cyrus story and update the article with the Boyce assertions--St. Hubert (talk) 20:03, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Dude, I am not anti-Iranian, please calm down. See page 3: It is not known whether the prto-Indo-Iranians celebrated a feast as important...there are indications that both Indians and Iranians thought of autumn as the new year season.
I am going to rewrite this section tonight, using this source. If you really want to help, please help me out instead of arguing with me.--St. Hubert (talk) 20:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello! Read page 3 and four carefully. It is written in page 4?--St. Hubert (talk) 22:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
You checked my source?
My source does not contradict with anything in the section! It is a highly reliable source. Of course there are many unsourced materials in the section and they should go, not the Boyce statement. I understand that like many Iranians you may not like to see the Mesopotamian origin for Persian New Year. However, there is no such policy in Wiki to censor what we do not like to see. New Civilizations are built over older civilizations achievements and nothing embarrassing that Iranians adopted some older traditions.--St. Hubert (talk) 22:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
See this quote:
"The...autumn festival of Persian continued..., and perhaps because this had been their earlier new year feast, they seem now to have given it a fresh dedication, calling it Mithrakana...."--St. Hubert (talk) 23:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
All right you seem not to see what the sources say. For all these claims there are sources. But you push for one theory. (Please either remove your non RS or check the summary pp. 115-119 which reviews lots of theories). Should I revert you?--Xashaiar (talk) 01:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
As usual we have a bunch of edit warrers active. User:Alefbe being one of them. Why waste your time undoing others peoples constructive work? Sad. 94.192.38.247 (talk) 13:50, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
What is going on? Why don't you people use the talk page? Wikipedia has enough guidelines to solve most of disputes.--Xashaiar (talk) 16:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Nowruz is an ancient celebration that started in Ancient Aryana, which includes all of Afghanistan and parts of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Iran. It is an ANCIENT ARYANA New Year, not Persian new year. Today Iranian's claim everything that comes out of Aryana Afghanistan as their own. It is very unjust that the world keeps getting misinformed about Aryana Afghanistan's history because most people of Afghanistan are not educated about their culture and history to speak for themselves: they had to struggle for so many years protecting their land from outsiders that it left the majority of the population very uneducated about their civilization. As a result, Iranians have stolen most of Aryana Afghanistan's ancient history, and tried to prove it correct with their own version of what happened.
Nawruz is a celebration that was left from the time of King Yama, ruler of of the first Aryana kingdom, 5000 years ago. It took place in the ancient city of Balk(today's Afghanistan). This use to be the capital of the Aryana Kingdom back then. During this period, there was no Persian empire. The center of Aryana was modern day Afghanistan. This is where the ancient Zoroastrian faith also started.
Also, some Iranian's claim that there is a huge difference between Dari and Farsi. In reality, Dari and Farsi are the same. Dari is the formal version of Farsi that was used inside courts and other high places. But today, most Iranian's claim it to be two separate languages due to their own insecurities. Instead of holding the hands of a people who share a common language as their own, today the Iranian government does not allow any people of Aryana Afghanistan to even attend their schools. So what they've done is taken anything that is good from Aryana Afghanistan, and labeled it's people as beggars and uncivilized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TherealAryan (talk • contribs) 17:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The word "adopted," in the line "According to Encyclopedia Britannica, the Jewish festival of Purim, is probably adopted from the Persian New Year," should be replaced with a word like connected or a fuller explanation. The word "adopted" suggests that the Purim holiday's traditions and story are based upon the Nowruz story. A strong relationship like that is not supported by research. Rather, most researchers would only seek to show that the celebratory nature of the holiday was instituted and retained given Purim's proximity to Nowruz. An excellent excerpt of this point is made in the Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, by James Hastings, John Alexander Selbie, and Louis Herbert Gray (see http://books.google.com/books?id=pf4hAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA506&lpg=PA506&dq=persian+new+year+purim&source=bl&ots=55FOUYHbug&sig=L_O6GMEM6Jo39Bv0Az38JrhyUjA&hl=en&ei=vvHDSdPNDpr2MIWYxJoK&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA506,M1). Also, the Britannica link fails to link to an article containing any mention of Purim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasondf36 (talk • contribs) 20:07, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I checked Britannica. This quote is from Judaism (religion): Myth and legend in the Persian period ) :
The principal monument of Jewish story in the Persian period is the biblical Book of Esther, which is basically a Judaized version of a Persian novella about the shrewdness of harem queens. The story was adapted to account for Purim, a popular festival, which itself is probably a transformation of the Persian New Year. Leading elements of the tale—such as the parade of Mordecai, dressed in royal robes, through the streets, the fight between the Jews and their adversaries, and the hanging of Haman and his sons—seem to reflect customs associated with Purim, such as the ceremonial ride of a common citizen through the capital, the mock combat between two teams representing the Old Year and the New Year, and the execution of the Old Year in effigy.
--St. Hubert (talk) 22:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello there, look at this sentence, there is a (useless) triple enhancement:
"Nowrūz is the traditional Iranian new year holiday celebrated by Iranian peoples, having its roots in Ancient Iran."
It's great to make reference to the origin of a festival, but this seemed a little overprotective (??!).
I would keep the reference to the origin (having its roots in Anciant Iran) and change the sentence in the following way:
Nowrūz [Persian: ...] is a traditional new year holiday having its roots in Ancient Iran and being celebrated by various people in the northern hemisphere, partly as the day marking the beginning of spring.
Yours, --Eatslowly (talk) 11:18, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The federal parliament of Canada has passed a bill to add Nowruz to the national calendar of Canada. See the approved bill here . Someone that has 'edit' permission please add this to the article in a proper section. 82.224.164.201 (talk) 16:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I propose inserting a section on the importance of Now Ruz to Isma'ilis after Zoroastrianism.--Water Stirs (talk) 03:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous user 82.95.13.109 (Talk) has been changing all instances of 'Iranian' to 'Persian'. I'm not an expert here, but my understanding is that the word 'Persian' has some political connotations, so I'm pretty sure that violates NPOV. I have reverted the changes, but whoever made them should feel free to discuss them on this talk page first before deciding whether to continue. Pipnosis 16:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear, if you admit that you are not an expert, why you change "Iranian (Persian)" to just "Iranian". If you know just a little bit about Persian history and culture, you'll undertsand that the right and more known term would be "Persian". That's why I put "Iranian (Persian)" instead of Iranian to make more sense. Besides, I have no idea why you say "Persain" has some political connoatations. It doesn't have anything to have with politics dude.
This is a long-standing discussion that I expect we are not going to solve here. But, if you go to Iran and ask people what country you are in, they will say “Iran”; absolutely nobody will say "Persia". The term Persian is largely used by older non-Iranians and certain Iranians who have adopted it mostly because they want to avoid being associated with present day Iran or have a certain political stance. The exclusive usage of the term "Iran" in the country itself, and thae fact that it is commonly recognised across the world, is what makes Iran and Iranian the correct terms for referring to the present day country and its citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.175.117 (talk) 00:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
PERSIAN is not political. What a strange idea that if you go to Iran "absolutely nobody will say "Persia"! because in Iran/Persia the official language is PERSIAN and in the 'Persian language' the term is 'Iran' but here (Wiki English section) we are talking about the usage of the term in "ENGLISH". If you go to Germany nobody say GERMANY. They say "Deutschland" because they speak German and German name of that country is "Deutschland" not Germany! So you think GERMANY is a political term?!
According to many documents and maps from ancient time to 1935 and even later, Persia is simply Western historical name of Iran. It's still quite popular in Western languages. Even now when both people and experts write or talk about various aspects of Persian history and culture (eg. Persian carpet, miniature, literature, classical music, cat, melon, lilac, etc.) they use PERSIAN as well.
According to UN Nowruz has also Persian origin. The best thing is to use both terms beside eachother to prevent any kind of confusion. Thank you. --Pejman7 (talk) 16:45, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Also I did not remove "Iranian", I wrote "Persian (Iranian)" which is perfect, complete and prevents any kind of confusion. --Shayan7 18:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shayan7 (talk • contribs)
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