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"murder"in Wikivoice until there is a conviction. At the moment, there are no formal charges or indictments, so there is not even
"suspected"or
"alleged"murder. We need autopsy results and a medical examiner's or coroner's ruling to call this a
"homicide". Just be patient. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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Why is the page beating around the Bush? Why doesn't it simply call it what it was - murder. When cops are killed the articles are named "murder" but when cops are the murderers it's not. This is quite a double standard of Wikipedia. Jorge1777 (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Jorge1777: - unless the majority view of reliable sources is that it's murder, it won't be referred to as murder. I assure you that this is not the case at this point in time. starship.paint (talk) 14:36, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
We wouldn't put murder in the title of a case like this - regardless of who the people involved were. The case & its participants are being investigated. Jim Michael (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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It’s probably for the best and makes more sense if you change the title to “The Murder of George Floyd”. 2A02:C7F:5E5A:D200:10E:F29C:6E3C:6E13 (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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What evidence is there to have this unsupported and defamatory description under his photo: "George Floyd, former pornographic actor and delinquent". No reputation or behavior on Mr Floyd's behalf would justify the way he was treated by the police.98.15.121.235 (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC) 98.15.121.235 (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
How do we make the pictures in the gallery smaller? Gingerbreadhouse97 (talk) 18:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Gingerbreadhouse97
Someone fixed them. Gingerbreadhouse97 (talk) 20:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Gingerbreadhouse97
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The proper term to describe what happened is "pinned by the neck until dead."
To describe his death as occurring "later on" is a misnomer. And you should also include his last words on the page out of respect. 2600:8805:C880:111:85C2:58A:1AAF:55A1 (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Currently the article says knelt on Floyd's neck for over seven minutes. These two sources say the video was nine minutes - knelt on his neck for nine minutes and - the nine-minute video shows a white officer pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck. The video was posted on Facebook, but I can't access it as I don't have an account, here's the link to it on Facebook. Can someone with a FB account check it? Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I checked the video. The cop is kneeling on him at the start of the video, and maintains the kneel until nearly 8 minutes into the video, at which point the unmoving Floyd is placed on a stretcher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18a:c680:7a60:48a0:ed7:72fb:93fd (talk • contribs)
Sources differ unfortunately.[]Mancalledsting (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Another recent source claiming "hundreds".Mancalledsting (talk) 16:52, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Another source claiming "hundreds"Mancalledsting (talk) 16:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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Demonstrators gathered at the site of Floyd's death on May 26. The crowd, estimated to be thousands of people,[1] then marched to the 3rd Precinct of the Minneapolis Police.[2] Around 8:00 p.m., police in riot gear fired sandbag rounds and chemical agents into the crowd.[3]
Please noted that sources are also claiming hundreds as well
Demonstrators gathered at the site of Floyd's death on May 26. The crowd, estimated to be "hundreds" and "thousands" of people,[4][5][6][7] then marched to the 3rd Precinct of the Minneapolis Police.[6] Around 8:00 p.m., police in riot gear fired sandbag rounds and chemical agents into the crowd.[8] Mancalledsting (talk) 16:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
References
See these They make me doubt further that the "riots" are not a publicity stunt.Mancalledsting (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
The video of him being removed from the vehicle (possibly resisting) can be found at: https://twitter.com/i/status/1265409119843954694 172.101.5.82 (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
He announced this over 30 minutes ago. Please include this.Mancalledsting (talk) 18:19, 27 May 2020 (UTC) Here is also a local online source Mancalledsting (talk) 18:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
As of yet, no arrests have been made! --93.211.214.147 (talk) 19:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Should that be mentioned in the infobox as an additional indirect death? Pizzaguy875 (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
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Apparently when at least one officer is non-white, it is still necessary to include the races of people in the lead, and I am being told to seek consensus for removing them. @Isaidnoway: please explain the other side to me; why is it necessary? GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 15:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
"shine light on police violence". We follow sources. If sources say "black", we say "black". If sources say "white", we say "white". Bus stop (talk) 15:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
"it adds no value". Nothing adds any value because you don't know the interests of the readers. We should be reflecting reliable sources. If reliable sources say an individual is black, we dutifully convey that information to the reader. If reliable sources say an individual is white, we dutifully convey that information to the reader. Bus stop (talk) 20:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
The FBI and authorities in Minnesota have launched investigations into the death of an African American man after an incident, captured on video, in which a white Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck as he lay on the ground.This Guardian article has the sub-headline
Protesters clash with police, who deploy teargas and stun grenades, following death of black man at hands of white officer. The Guardian prominently features race in their stories. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 17:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
People should not be defined by race.I agree! However, we can't ignore how race factors into events like interactions with police, and ignoring it is whitewashing an integral part of the story. The story isn't
the death of a civilian due to police incompetence, the story is an African American civilian dying due to the overuse of force by the police, and the officer with his knee on Floyd's neck is white. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
only create more anger and divide people" and "
[r]ace does not matter since "all lives matter"is a clear and unambiguous violation of WP:NPOV. WP:RS overwhelmingly highlight the races of the involved people. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
All Lives Matter (#AllLivesMatter) is a slogan that has come to be associated with criticism[1] of the Black Lives Matter movement.[2]How is that
"as neutral as it gets?"It's not. Neither is
"war on blacks". Mind talk page guidelines. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
I feel like I've had to do this a dozen times before on other articles, but here we go again (emphases added):
"The video, captured by Darnella Frazier, begins with the man, who is black, groaning and repeatedly saying "I can't breathe" to the officer who has his knee on the man's neck. The officer is white."- CBS
"Floyd, 46, died after a white Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin, kneeled on his neck for at least seven minutes while handcuffing him."- The Daily Beast
"An FBI investigation is underway and four officers have been fired following a fatal encounter Monday between Minneapolis police and an unarmed 46-year-old black man named George Floyd. ... Overnight, video of the attempted arrest circulated on social media. Posted by Darnella Frazier on Facebook, the nine-minute video shows a white officer pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck behind a squad car. While lying facedown on the road, Floyd repeatedly groans and says he can’t breathe. “He’s not even resisting arrest right now, bro,” one bystander tells the white officer and his partner, in the video."- CBS Local
"The bystander video that circulated widely on social media Monday night shows a white Minneapolis police officer pressing his knee into a black man’s neck during an arrest, as the man repeatedly says “I can’t breathe” and “please I can’t breathe.”- NYTimes (archived version to avoid paywall)
"Four Minneapolis police officers have been fired following the death of an unarmed black man in police custody Monday night."KMSP Fox 9
""We are once again traumatized by the tragic scene of a black man pleading for his life at the hands of a white police officer," Smith said in an emailed statement. "- KSTP local news
"Video of the incident shows that a white police officer had a black man pinned to the ground next to the back tire of his patrol car with his knee on the man's neck."- NBC News
"...after a viral video showed a white police officer putting his knee on the neck of a black man, who later died."- Washington Post
"Police officers near the Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct on Tuesday during protests against George Floyd's death. Floyd, a black man, died after a white officer, Derek Chauvin, knelt on his neck for more than eight minutes." - Insider
"In widely circulated cellphone video of the subsequent arrest, Floyd, who was black , can be seen on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back while Officer Derek Chauvin presses him to the pavement with his knee on Floyd's neck. The video shows Chauvin, who is white , holding Floyd down for minutes as Floyd complains he can't breathe. The video ends with paramedics lifting a limp Floyd onto a stretcher and placing him in an ambulance."- Boston Globe
"The mayor of Memphis said Thursday that he shares the frustration of protesters angry with the death of a handcuffed black man during a confrontation with a white police officer in Minnesota."- Star Tribune
These are from the first 15 or so sources in the reference list (plus one linked from one of those sources). EvergreenFir (talk) 19:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
... Mr. Floyd, a black man, who died after a white police officer pinned him to the ground with a knee to the neck.WSJ
... the killing of an unarmed black man by a white police officer.BBC
... George Floyd, a black man who was seen pinned down in a video by a white police officer and later died.ABC News
... the white police officer seen on video kneeling against the neck of a handcuffed black man who complained that he could not breathe and died in police custody.AP News
... the death of an unarmed black man seen in a video lying face down in the street, gasping for air and groaning, 'I can’t breathe,' while a white officer knelt on his neck for several minutes.Reuters
... George Floyd, a black man who died after a white officer pinned his knee against the suspect's neck as he struggled to breathe ...Fox News
This argument makes no sense. Most of these references are from news papers whose goal is very different from that of an Encycolpedia. News sources should be used indeed, but the text should be made neutral before becoming part of an Encycolpedia.
I've filled out a Law enforcement subsection in the Reactions section. Apparently quite a number are speaking out on this topic, keep an eye out for more. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
During the protests the media site Unicorn Riot did live coverage of the protests and interviewed people apart of it. I'm not exactly sure how to add this to the article but here is the link to their Youtube Channel where the livestreams are up. Unicorn Riot Youtube Channel Eons of Mollusk (talk) 20:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
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Include a link to a wikipedia page regarding Derek M. Chauvin, which includes his history on the force. Prior controversies regarding his conduct are relevant. 76.65.30.150 (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
It’s relevant and it should be included in his life since it’s one of the reason why he was in Minnesota in the first place. And we might as well remove that he was a father and that he lost his job as well. Also as you already stated it’s not clear if police knew about it or not. Political and social issue have nothing to do it. Byulwwe (talk) 21:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
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This sentence may be incorrect: The policemen taunt Floyd to "get up and get in the car,"[29] to which Floyd replies: "I will ... I can't move."[30] In the video, it sounds like a bystander actually says this to Floyd. Whichslued1 (talk) 20:44, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Possible im no expert but just putting it out there for consideraton just in case. Not sure why but fist time on wiki and to make my account I got two words to prove im human as you do the whole gdyee3H my words were cahnlungs and wailssum so I did. Because I believe I'm onto something and just for George and for the 0.5 percent chance they don't check. I don't even know if they do MRI as part of autopsy but I believe in this case they should. Wikijude75 (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Eric Garner had carotid compression of the neck, not "suffocation." The article incorrectly states that suffocation was the cause of death. This is important because carotid compression is likely relevant here while suffocation is not based on knee position and ability to speak. Cutting off blood supply to the head with a carotid choke hold used against Garner killed him, not suffocation. Lead should be correct to the cited cause of death2600:8800:1580:20D3:0:0:0:1002 (talk) 22:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police" as detailed at Death_of_Eric_Garner#Medical_examiner's_report_and_autopsy. It does not mention "carotid compression". I'm fine with AzureCitizen's changes though. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
It looks like the protests are getting eventful, especially with the abandonment and burning of the police station. That has not previously happened. I suggest a new article be created, on the lines of the Ferguson unrest and 2015 Baltimore protests articles. --Blemby (talk) 04:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
This has been done. JustLucas (they/them) (talk) 11:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
What has been linked as the "full video" (Video on YouTube) is not the full video and it looks like a cell phone video of a monitor rather than even a true copy of the original which makes it a blatant copyright violation. The title is false, we cannot link that as the title implying it is the full video. The only good copy I have found so far is at 5:00 in this Video on YouTube. This wouldn't be my choice of videos to link given the extraneous content before and after (I apologize for even having to link this source) but it is the best copy I have seen.
If you watch the actual full video you will see a number of problems with our current transcription of what happens. If a movie is considered a RS as a primary source for its own plot, isn't the actual video a reliable source? It is apparently an African-American-sounding man who seems like a bystander who says George should get in the police car. It is clear from the video here at 6:05 Video on YouTube. You can see him someone walk up shortly before that and start talking.
IMPORTANT:
I appreciate any effort to work with me on this. —DIYeditor (talk) 04:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
an African-American-sounding man who seems like a bystander who says George should get in the police car. I don't know what accent is present. We follow the reliable sources. What sources explicitly say it's a bystander?
different from the Asian cop. I'm not sure that it sounds like the bystander who walked up. I found another source, Buzzfeed News, that states "A person can be heard talking to Floyd, telling him to get up and get in the car, although it is unclear if it is an officer speaking." I will edit that in that Buzzfeed is unsure, but AFP, CBS, and WVLT attribute it to the police. starship.paint (talk) 06:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Someone tells Floyd to "get up and get in the car," (which Agence France Presse, CBS News and WVLT-TV identify as one of the officers, while Buzzfeed News states that it is "unclear" whether it was an officer speaking),
This is what I wrote, DIYeditor. I really couldn't find any more reliable sources discussing this (many were reprints of AFP). Otherwise, there were questionable ones like the New York Post, and unreliable ones like the Daily Mail and Metro, all of which say it was an officer, but of course, we shouldn't use those. starship.paint (talk) 06:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
At around 4:00 ET, there were protests in Union Square in New York City led by over 100 people. Over 40 people were arrested. There is no mention of this anywhere in the article. This should be added under "Memorials, protests, and riots" subtitle.
Shamaflama (talk) 04:50, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Shamaflama
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Stop citing “CBS News” and mainstream media outlets. We can all agree that mainstream news channels will caption things to fit THEIR narrative. Instead, cite these as “video published by CBS News“ or “cell phone video from...” 2600:8803:F100:425:E5A3:4D3B:EFED:5453 (talk) 06:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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The name of the article should be changed to “The Murder Of George Floyd” 173.237.111.84 (talk) 07:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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Change “Death of George Floyd” to “Murder of George Floyd” Elijah318 (talk) 08:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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BeŻet has added the 'context' that "The arrest was conducted after Floyd allegedly 'physically resisted' when ordered to exit his vehicle, a claim that has been contradicted by available video recordings.[2][5]" I have watched both videos and they do not show what happened when he exited his vehicle nor do they have anyone contradicting the claim. Not to say the claim is true or untrue, just that these videos don't support or contradict it. I don't have the wikiskills to handle this myself.
Also, while I think the arrest killed Floyd, here's another reason to withold judgement until an investigation has been done or at least await the results of an autopsy. Despite the apparently clear evidence of our own eyes that he was killed by the knee on his neck, it MAY rather be the weight on his chest that did it. I base this on looking at his airway, and it's important because of the implications for how the police make arrests in future. (Also: I have no idea why my comment is coming out with a blue box around it. I can't find a way to fix it) alacarte 11:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professor alacarte (talk • contribs)
Minnesota State Patrol arrested in Minneapolis 5:11 UTC-6 29.5.2020 CNN crew (Omar Jimenez as first arrested) showing journalist credentials during live relation, making de facto censorship and breaking first ammendment of the Constitution of the USA. 6:30 released.2A02:A314:813F:1000:9841:9846:8C23:F295 (talk) 11:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Reports on this seem divided on whether the victim's surname is Floyd or Lloyd. Can anyone definitively settle this matter? M.J.E. (talk) 15:15, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Is there some possibility that "Floyd" could be the typo?
I'm not pushing for a controversial view, and have no opinion on the matter - just wondering how one resolves it. I've seen "Lloyd" in more than one publication on line - and heard both "Lloyd" and "Floyd" on A.B.C. radio news in Australia - a source I would usually trust to get names right. So, at present, I don't feel I can tell which name is correct.
Do you settle it by a majority vote of all the different sources that report on this? Or is there some source that gives the correct name beyond any possibility of dispute? M.J.E. (talk) 17:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
According to his facebook page it's spelt 'FLOYD'--Olatunde Brain (talk) 02:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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Please consider changing the image to one of George Floyd alive. If you have trouble finding one please e-mail me to request one at (Redacted). 2601:1C2:1601:4DC0:74ED:97C1:95E7:11E5 (talk) 16:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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Include the Chief of Police of Detroit in the other cities listed under Law Enforcement 74.115.237.100 (talk) 19:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Is whoever filmed it really notable? I don't think the cameraperson really pertains to the event itself. Ed6767 (talk) 20:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Change the title of the article to “Killing of George Floyd” 96.248.84.106 (talk) 02:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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"Looking at his racist ideologies, people got angered" Donald Trump personally asked for the enquiry to be investegated by the FBI and he was referring to the people looting target stores, this is not a protest and setting fires to buildings which could of killed many people. This is a very biast piece of writing. Prometheus onex (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC) Prometheus onex (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There isn't much written about the jobs he held:
The native Texan followed some friends there about five years ago and landed a job working security at a Salvation Army store downtown.
Soon thereafter, he had picked up two others gigs: one driving trucks and another as a bouncer at Conga Latin Bistro where he was affectionately known as "Big Floyd."
Reference: https://www.foxnews.com/us/who-is-george-floyd-minnesota — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbenton (talk • contribs) 12:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
It's pretty quickly becoming a major thing. Kingofthedead (talk) 20:37, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
This has been done. JustLucas (they/them) (talk) 11:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Murder of George Floyd. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 29#Murder of George Floyd until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. CrazyBoy826 15:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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Please change the picture of initial photo of floyd. The picture can be used later on in the article but as a sign of respect towards him as a person at least change the picture to a photo of him. 64.231.174.10 (talk) 03:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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Blocked Floyd down by pushing his knee down on his neck for 9 minutes and not Kneeling on his neck 41.250.86.114 (talk) 10:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Removing color from article would remove racist context. Now, reading the article and all other links like 'black man killed by white policeman' it is clear where you are heading, creating this racist hate that sponsors vandalism in New York city, for instance. Media can hurt. You could do a better job here.
So far what I understand, the likely scenario: criminal was caught, he was resisting to policeman and the policeman incidentically killed him. That's pretty much it. Here is no color involved. The details are inexact and to be sorted, but the article have to stay neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.81.84 (talk) 00:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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Death should be Murder 24.6.162.50 (talk) 00:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
We do not allow non-free images of the recently deceased as standard practice in the same fashion as BLP under NFC, on the expectation that free images may be available from friends and family *after* giving them a fair period of mourning, and with the rationale that seeing the individual does not aid in understanding the crime and situation. Link to the XFD is at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 May 29#File:George Floyd.png. --Masem (t) 06:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Notes that:
Two Minneapolis police officers captured in video footage restraining George Floyd were previously involved in other violent incidents while on duty, according to a database that documents instances of police brutality.
While making cautious statements about the implications of this regarding the appropriateness of police internal review and race relations with law enforcement in the state. Since I'm not interested in another unwarranted trip to WP:Dramaboard if one of you wishes to investigate this and add something about it in the lead or the body of the article feel free to do so. Cheers (but a bit less cheerful than usual), RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:07, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Lack of police intervention makes the reports of fires and looting very questionable If you ask me, it's like the looting was politically allowed. I am not seeing no need for a National Guard, which at this moment would clearly a publicity stunt if activated.Mancalledsting (talk) 11:18, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
One change that could be made to the "Rioting, looting, and violence" section is that "devolved into" could be changed to "gave way to", or something similar. The current wording sounds like the looting and rioting are the same group as the protesters, but the source does not make it clear if the group of arsonists were originally associated with the protest. Clearly the protests and looting are associated *events*, but not necessarily the same people. 73.227.132.130 (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't know if this is relevant at all. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/police-chief-much-of-riot-damage-caused-by-those-from-outside-minneapolis --Sleepcircle (talk) 12:44, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I have a few sentences, with relevant links built in, that I am going to insert. BUT I'm not sure of the best location. So, if anyone thinks of a better location, feel free to move this:
== Affected Neighborhoods of Minneapolis == Minneapolis has a eleven identified communities, each of which has a number of neighborhoods within it. The 3rd Precinct Police Station is located on the eastern side of the Longfellow neighborhood (which is inside the Longfellow Community). The destruction has since expanded elsewhere, locally to the West, in Phillips Community (north side of Lake Street) and Powderhorn Community (south side of Lake Street), as well as to St. Paul's Midway area and possibly elsewhere.
The confrontation/Death of George Floyd took place in the Powderhorn Park neighborhood (which is inside the community of the similar name).
The area covered by the 3rd Precinct (MAP) includes both the Powderhorn and Longfellow Neighborhoods.
LP-mn (talk) 16:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
It seems like the Aftermath section should be trimmed to summarize information but not duplicate details that can be found in the newer article: Twin Cities riots. TJMSmith (talk) 16:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
This is a relevant fact that should be included in the article:
According to ABC Minneapolis news, George Floyd and Derek Chauvin both worked at security guards and had overlapping security shifts at the south Minneapolis Latin nightclub, El Nuevo Rodeo.[1]
This is the club: "El Nuevo Rodeo is the premier Latin Club Minneapolis, Salsa, Merengue, Bachata, & More. #1 Concert venue/dance club in Minneapolis"
http://elnuevorodeo.com/latin-club-minneapolis/ 74.101.202.221 (talk) 05:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
And AP[2] also reported it. That seems reliable. Hope so, it is sure to be incendiary information if true. —DIYeditor (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
References
{{cite news}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Twin Cities riots which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
MOS:BOLDLEAD: "The death of George Floyd occurred on..." rather than "George Floyd died on...", because this article is explicitly about his death, it is not a biography. ——Serial # 19:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Two of these images appear to not be watermarked, and may be by a voa employee which would be PD Victor Grigas (talk) 20:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Shooting of Justine Damond was removed under the See also header as "loosely related". In that case it was a white woman shot by a black cop. The cop was sentenced to 12.5 years, in the other shootings in Minneapolis and environs the cops were not charged or not convicted. Someone Not Awful (talk) 15:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Race is not the only issue. Other issues include the training of police officers and the culture of the department (militaristic? command and control? the answer to these is "yes"). It is interesting that the officer has now been charged with the same offenses of which the officer involved in the Damond incident was convicted. This is not just or only race related; it reflects a longstanding problem with the department itself. And who are we to judge the actual motivations of the officer at the time? How do we know they were race-related? Believe me, some MPD officers are equally capable of mistreating and abusing suspects of any race. Kablammo (talk) 20:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
It was confirmed later on the $20 bill was legitimate Cluckpoof (talk) 22:52, 29 May 2020 (UTC) — Cluckpoof (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Why is the fact that the police officer was white so prominent in the lead? It's literately a black and white story to mention that so clearly. It's BIAS. Why is the race of Tou Thao not mentioned? Why is in the article Death of Eric Garner not mentioned that Daniel Pantaleo is Hispanic?
I also have an objection to mentioning the name of the perpetrators, that's not relevant. --Wester (talk) 22:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life" and (2nd degree) manslaughter is "
caused the death of a person by culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk and taking a chance of causing death or great bodily harm" according to the charging document. Minor differences in mens rea requirements, attendant circumstances, and the associated sentencing. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
FYI: Since it's clearly really important to mention the race of perpetrators I also updated to article Death_of_Eric_Garner to bring cohesion in wikipedia. That now states ' Daniel Pantaleo, a Latino New York City Police Department (NYPD) officer', exactly the same formula used here. But I suspect that edit will be reversed quickly. Like I said: double standards.--Wester (talk) 22:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
At c4 and 5 vertebra and the spinal cord in this area house the nerves and control of the diaphragm. I believe the pain he felt in he stomach and the fact he could not breathe was because the nerves in this area were being pinched . I know from experience and after my spinal cord was cut off and I couldn't walk the paramedics said was lucky c4 and 5 keep you alive . I'm commenting because I hope they do an MRI as part of the autopsy healthy men don't just die but with the neck restricted and pressure on spinal cord at c4 and 5 they do . RIP George Floyd . Wikijude75 (talk) 21:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
The cause of death is important because the page needs to be changed from death to murder. If we leave as death its the same as saying its not murder and that is taking sides, the side of Derek Chauvin. Ty78ejui (talk) 00:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
See "Medical examiner and cause of death" below. Kablammo (talk) 01:28, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I believe it would be relevant to put down Black Lives Matter, List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, and police riots in the United States in the See Also section.
It's relevant because BLM often comes up whenever law enforcement kills black people (BLM has been seen on protest signs, graffiti, and news media reporting on this event so I can't see why it's not relevant). The list of killings by law enforcement is also relevant due to the event (a police officer killing a black man). The police riots are also relevant due to the event sparking riots are against the Minneapolis police for Floyd's death (as of writing this, the twin city protests have been going on for ~4 days). (If there's anything else directly relevant to the topic, please add it).
I think it would also be wise to put more advanced protection on it due to vandalism (or at least extend the current one to some point in the future (presumably June 30th, longer if necessary) since due to how events are unfolding, the protests aren't going to slow down and people will come on and edit the page in a way which violates the neutral point of view policy, presumably white supremacists trying to slander Floyd's reputation). This is a suggestion. If it's not necessary, then there's no need for further protection. If it is, then there is and should be put in place if there is.
I can't edit the article directly due to my account being new so if someone can put in, that would be helpful. Any directly relevant information that gives extra context to anyone who's reading about this event would be useful.
Lord-of-Midnight-18 (talk) 03:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC) Lord-of-Midnight-18
Our lead states: Officers Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng also helped restrain Floyd, while officer Tou Thao stood nearby and looked on. However, this is not backed up by the source cited In this newly circulated video, three officers have Floyd pinned on the ground, while another stands over him ... the officer who pressed his knee to Floyd's neck has been identified as Derek Chauvin ... the other officers involved have been identified as Thomas Lane, J. Alexander Kueng, and Tou Thao. The source does not specify which are the other two who pin Floyd. I searched for other sources, but they too do not identify the officers, just saying three officers are seen sitting on Mr. Floyd.
As such, I feel that this sentence in the lead fails verification , but User:Isaidnoway disagrees. Note that the "newly circulated video" may have occurred earlier than the original viral video, we don't know if the officers switched positions. We must have care in handling WP:BLP, there is potential harm if we accuse Lane/Kueng of restraining Floyd if they did not (even though they likely did). Therefore we need a source explicitly backing the sentence, I don't think it should be left up to editors to judge the video, but the sources. What do you think? starship.paint (talk) 03:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
@Isaidnoway and Kire1975: - a suitable source has emerged Thao was standing watch
, and therefore the other three did hold Floyd down
, as none of the three officers moved from their positions
. starship.paint (talk) 03:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Should we go into more depth about the protests revolving around the Death of George Floyd? I understand that a section has been put into place regarding this topic, but I feel that it needs more depth, as at this point, all the information about the main portion of the event, the actual death, has already been completely covered. The only current events are currently the protests, so should we go into greater detail about this? Note: It has been brought to my attention that there is a Twin Cities Protests page, I will link to this page at an appropriate place in the article. JazzClam (talk) 11:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC) It has been brought to my attention that it is already in the article. JazzClam (talk) 11:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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Floyd might have received the counterfeit note from someone else, without knowing that it was counterfeit, and Friedrich Fiegenwald Coy subsequently suspects that the whole deadly charade was arranged to demonise cash and African Americans per se. 2A00:23C5:411F:EB00:D9E8:A600:E184:776E (talk) 14:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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Please replace:
| image_name = George Floyd neck knelt on by police officer.png | image_size = 160px | caption = A frame from a video of the event taken by an onlooker
with:
| image_name = George Floyd fired police officers.png | image_size = 160px | caption = The four officers fired in connection with George Floyd's death
Using https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZOzl-aXkAIMltM?format=png&name=large for Media:George Floyd fired police officers.png
Information related to the image: https://tineye.com/search/7337fa8ae9e7509380fbce3a52b50615c6c5a8d7
Thank you for your consideration in this request 172.101.5.82 (talk) 16:47, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
In this newly released video, the one police officer who is not pinning Floyd down spends some time looking for something in the back of the police vehicle on the right side of which Floyd is lying, then Thomas Lane (the officer pinning Floyd's legs) reaches out, and the officer at the rear of the vehicle hands him the object he has retrieved from the back of the police vehicle. Have any news sources reported about what this object was? If so, this information should be added to the article. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 11:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
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please exchange 'depraved-mind' to 'depraved-heart' Espiee (talk) 04:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Many news sources are comparing the very different treatment by police of the George Floyd protests and the majority white anti lockdown protestors
I'm not sure sure how to include this in the article.
John Cummings (talk) 20:16, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
The media has highlighted the differences in aggression between the police response to black protesters in these protests versus the more measured response to the 2020 United States anti-lockdown protests featuring gun-wielding white protesters. This sentiment also spread on social media.
@John Cummings, Muboshgu, Shrinkydinks, and DIYeditor: I made an attempt. starship.paint (talk) 07:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I have seen several instances of people saying that Courtney Ross is actually a paid actor, and that his real fiancé is Shawnda King. I do not have all current facts but I thought I should bring this up JordanianMaroon (talk) 00:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 00:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Created by AshMusique (talk), Starship.paint (talk), and Shrinkydinks (talk). Nominated by Starship.paint (talk) at 05:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC).
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Change "Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; 2 minutes and 53 seconds of which occurred after Floyd became unresponsive" to "Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, killed George Floyd by keeping his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; 2 minutes and 53 seconds of which occurred after Floyd became unresponsive" Luxeprogressive (talk) 02:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)— Luxeprogressive (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
What's the issue? Floyd said they were killing him as it was happening. It's on the video. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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"The death of George Floyd, an African-American man, occurred in Minneapolis on May 25, 2020"
Replace "death" with "murder" now that the police officer has been charged with murder, it is a murder. Aliyado (talk) 20:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Then the title should be changed to 'Killing of George Floyd' which is indisputable. Medical professionals, police chiefs, politicians, and the viewing public all agree to the fact Floyd was alive, then was killed from the use of an improper restraint technique, at minimum. 'Death' is a very passive word and does not aptly describe the evidence illustrated by the video. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:25, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Please add all arrest records and his jail time in Texas 4/2009-2014 2001:48F8:704E:CB3:E801:5A70:2B9E:B0AD (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
template. Jack Frost (talk) 09:49, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Under discussion at the RfC above. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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His DOB is 10/14/73 2603:9001:6109:B00:C149:6CD3:4025:70E0 (talk) 16:55, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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delete involved peoples' skin color from the article, as this aspect, skin color, is irrelevant in the unfolding of the events Wolf15d (talk) 17:52, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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In the section "People involved," subsection "Police officers," please add "(age 34)" after Tou Thao. This would match Thao's mention here to Lane's and Kueng's, the other two officers whose ages are given but whose birthdates are not. Please cite this to this article from the Star Tribune. 108.73.104.136 (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I see that the articles talks about Derek Chauvin having already 18 complaints on his records, but nothing is written about Floyd's past crimes ? Source : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.154.221.239 (talk) 22:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello, it is not the Daily Mail that is saying it but official court records.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.154.221.239 (talk • contribs)
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He supposedly robbed. 174.52.208.44 (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Change the opening statement of the article from “George Floyd died on” to “George Floyd was murdered” 2001:569:BD31:4700:CC50:84DC:2BD2:22BD (talk) 03:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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In Reactions/Political/International add, The Dalai Lama, in India while teaching students, condemned the killing of George Floyd by saying, "...and then there are some who even take it as a pride to be able to kill somebody."[1] Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC) Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Please add the Wikipedia link at Dalai Lama name in Reactions/Political/International. Pasdecomplot (talk) 11:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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"On May 25, 2020, George Floyd, an African-American man, died in Powderhorn, a neighborhood south of downtown Minneapolis, Minnesota. While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive." He didn't just die he was murdered!!!!!!!!! 71.167.20.169 (talk) 14:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but so what? This seems un-encyclopedic.198.161.4.41 (talk) 20:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I think we should have 1 line that says roughly "many celebrities have condemned the polices actions [citations here]"--Hiveir (talk) 23:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
I fail to see why what some celeb thinks is ever relevant.Slatersteven (talk) 14:18, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
It has been almost 3 days since the second autopsy was conducted, has there been any release of information yet from citable sources? RyanLB (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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He was convicted of a home invasion with a deadly weapon. That’s not a burglary in an empty home. That’s a break in while the occupants are eating dinner and then robbed at gun point. 32.213.170.152 (talk) 13:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
There is one sentence in the article about his Texas conviction and IMO it should stay there. It's part of his biography. (Even though it's something that the Minnesota police officers could not have been aware of; there have been no reports that he had any run-ins with the law in the 5 years he lived there. He moved to MN intending to "start a new life" and to all appearances he had succeeded. I'm not suggesting this comment be added to the article, it is OR/opinion.) I have added a better source; the existing source was behind a paywall. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:13, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I suggest removing the content in question for WP:BLP concerns (since all content regarding a recently deceased person is covered there), and we have this convo in a month or two... –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 19:56, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Again can we have just one thread on this, please merge all these.Slatersteven (talk) 10:08, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
See the RfC below, where I guess we get to repeat ourselves. Should we link from there to all the previous discussions? Should we ping all discussants in previous discussions? -- MelanieN (talk) 19:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I think the gallery section should be taken down entirely. The photos are all of the protests subsequent to the death/murder, for which there is a separate article. Obviously there will be mention of the protests in this article, but I'm really not sure how a photo of damaged buildings in Columbus belongs on this article.
81.108.160.123 (talk) 11:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
"A spokesman for the police department said the officers ordered him to exit the vehicle, at which point he "physically resisted". This claim is contradicted by all video evidence thus far released of the encounter.[9][10]" Neither of the sources provided say anything about whether he resisted exiting the vehicle?
This video - with footage - says that Floyd DID resist exiting his car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSm0Nuqomg&t=55 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomas6785 (talk • contribs)
This is mostly academic at this point, because the article here no longer claims that the resisting of arrest is "contradicted by all video evidence thus far released". The NBC video linked above really doesn't need to be incorporated in the article either, now that media like the New York Times and CNN have commented on the prosecutors statements in the criminal complaint. In case there is any confusion here, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension turned over the video and audio recordings from two of the arresting officer's body cameras to the prosecutor, who then described them in the statement of probable cause as follows: "Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd actively resisted being handcuffed. ...The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad... Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still." Actively resisting being handcuffed is resisting arrest, as well as the refusal to get in the squad car when directed by law enforcement to do so. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 16:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
File:George_Floyd_memorial_banner_Berlin-Kreuzberg.jpg was just uploaded to Commons. Any opinions on adding it to the gallery section? I personally feel the gallery section doesn't represent the reception of the event by the wider world yet, and perhaps this would help. ·addshore· talk to me! 20:49, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Over in George Floyd protests there's a dynamically updated map of major protests in George Floyd protests#Protests_elsewhere - I think that would be good to include in this article as well, as a quick summary view (this article is getting way more views, and the list of cities with protests is growing by the hour) but I don't want to insert a major piece of map code without some consensus. Thoughts? -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm tempted to add the sequence of events from the complaint (charge) document. This seems to me the authoritative secondary source; the county attorney has integrated all the witness statements and bodycam footage. But before I start an edit war, are people OK with that? -- Netwalker3 (talk) 08:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Adding on to this - to avoid the continued addition of loosely related examples of police brutality (of which there are many), should we give a short description after each link as to how each incident relates to the death of Floyd? For example, we can say the shootings of Castile and Damond were in the Minneapolis area, and the death of Eric Garner played out in a very comparable way.
This would be similar to the Bayonne mosque shooting article. Mrsmiis (talk) 05:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, in some contexts, it can describe a big boom, crash or smash from an unfeeling object. But protest is inherently related to people, so the word naturally suggests the sort of unrest that brings blood, physical pain and death. "Destruction" or the like are way clearer, and less counterproductive to the spirit of raging against violence. So be mindful. Or don't, if you'd rather not. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
What's important about using the word "violence" in this case is to not subtly and automatically foist it on the protestors. As hundreds of images and testamonies from verified independent media and twitter sources evidence, peaceful protests in Minneapolis and around the country were met with excessive force and violence from police. Thus, evidence proves the police are repeatedly the instigators of the violence, beginning with Chauvin's and his accomplices' violence. The protesters are responding after the violence targets them, after joining peaceful manifestations, after beginning to protect themselves. This reality needs to be an inherent aspect of all categorizations of "violence". Additionally, the property destruction is a form of rage against a violent system of lethal institutional racism. Pasdecomplot (talk) 09:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
From the criminal complaint:
The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.
Complaint — State of Minnesota v. Derek Michael Chauvin, Minnesota District Court, Fourth Judicial District, File No. 27-CR-20-12646, p. 3. May 29, 2020.
Cause of death will be a major point of contention in the trial. Kablammo (talk) 01:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
OPPOSE Wikipedia doesn't need a trial to report what the video clearly illustrates : Floyd was alive, clearly stated he was being killed, then was killed by Chauvin, Koeng, and Lane, as Thao assisted. It's illogical and inaccurate to devalue then to negate Floyd's own testimony. To do so while claiming to wait for an 'official' determination is senseless in this case. I might add the position of waiting, while negating Floyd's own dying statements including those which detail his organ shutdowns as he's being slowly killed, is also somewhat politicly naive. Pasdecomplot (talk) 10:12, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
In this article, we have biographies of the individuals involved, however, it currently misses out from the relevent section George Floyd's extensive criminal record from the before he moved from Houston, Texas to Minneapolis. I feel this is pertinent to add. If we can mention complete cruft such as the fact that he liked basketball and hip-hop, surely this needs to be in here.
According to this news article, Floyd was sentenced to five years in prison in 2009 for his part in an armed home invasion with a weapon. According to the Harris County, Texas District records, Mr. Floyd entered a home of a woman with a gang, pointed a gun to her stomach and searched the home for drugs and money to steal, before making off with jewelry and her mobile phone. Mr. Floyd had already been a defendant in eight other criminal incidents before this stretching back to 1997 and has had five stints in prison. CrimeChecker (talk) 16:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Can someone then please explain how the fact he liked basketball and hip-hop is relevant to his death? Jevansen (talk) 22:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
The article is already too long. I think talking about the family tradition and the grandfather of one of the arresting officers is excessive. --82.37.129.75 (talk) 07:45, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Pleas add the statements below in the section -> Reactions -> Political
(Redacted) Bakabana~enwiki (talk) 10:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Per [Vox] Chauvin is the the first white officer to be charged with the death of a black civilian in Minnesota. I believe this information would be relevant to the article and would like to see if added (there may be other interesting and relevant bits to add from that article as well)--2600:6C51:447F:D8D9:B0AF:3DB2:BE89:D986 (talk) 23:01, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Currently, the article states that "Officers Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas K. Lane participated in Floyd's arrest, with Kueng holding Floyd's back, Lane holding his legs, and Thao looking on as he stood nearby."
However, this is not completely accurate, in light of the fact that, in one of the eyewitness videos, while the other three are holding Floyd down, Thao takes time to open the rear of the police SUV, look for and retrieve an object from the SUV, then hand it to Lane, who reaches out his hand and takes the object.
If it has not been reported what this object is, mention of Thao's action should be added to the article, since it is clear that he was not simply looking on.
173.88.246.138 (talk) 18:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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I would like to request that the current results of the body watch cameras be included in this article. For as far as a majority of the news and such goes most sources have neglected these findings.
http://mncourts.gov/media/StateofMinnesotavDerekChauvin.aspx
Here is a link which leads to the pdf file for such. I am most troubled by how there is no mention that George did resist and he had been saying that he couldn't breath before he was on the ground. There was no point where police officers actually got him into the car. Shnappers (talk) 03:59, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
@Einne would it count as secondary source material since the primary source would be the body cameras and the secondary reliable source would be Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension interpretation of that footage? Shnappers (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
We can use reputable primary sources for what they say. We need secondary sources for what they mean. Here we can cite to and quote from the statutes and court filings, but we need secondary sources to draw conclusions from them. See WP:PRIMARY. Kablammo (talk) 22:00, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I am fairly confident that this would be considered a secondary source.
I appreciate the example of a secondary source but it's fair to argue this has all the makings of being a secondary source.
From the fact it uses "him" "the defendent" "the officers" and "Mr floyd" the author is not directly related to the incident.
Throughout the complaint it cites the timestamps of other primary sources and builds upon bystander videos.
At no point do I have to evaluate, interpret or analyze anything. It is already done for me.
It is not my original research but rather a reliable source.
There is nothing that directly states everything related to a court case can not be used as a secondary source.
It is the assertion, it is not supporting an assertion. Shnappers (talk) 00:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Nil, I disagree. We can use the primary source to state what it says. But we cannot, for example, draw conclusions from it, by, for example, asserting that Floyd was not strangled, with a cite to the source. Already we are seeing instances of the latter. And here, where the primary source is well-covered by secondary sources — which often rephrase it, or make statements which go beyond it — we can reduce errors by direct quotes from the source. Kablammo (talk) 12:41, 1 June 2020 (UTC) And people are already interpreting the complaint, here and elsewhere, to state that he was not asphyxiated, and that is not what the complaint says. Kablammo (talk) 13:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
@Nil Einne I've already given you my argument and used the specific wording of the rules as to why this is a secondary source. You are not citing any reason why it is not other than your word at this point and saying that it will be rejected. The only thing that could prevent this being used as a primary source is that it can not be used to support assertions but these are not supporting assertions at all. I am not making any assertions, no one is. Read the rules yourself. Shnappers (talk) 13:02, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Hi. Multiple errors as follows:
1. In 'Events' section : change order of bystander video account and police account. Police account has already been proven as inaccurate, and should not have top billing in this section.
2. In 'Events' section, preliminary autopsy: delete "found no indication" and edit sentence to "preliminary autopsy alleges", which is more accurate.
3. In 'Events' section : delete inaccurate idea that Chavin didn't move until paramedics placed Floyd on stretcher. Add "Chavin removed his knee to drag Floyd's body towards the paramedics. The officers then dumped Floyd's body onto the stretcher, and the paramedics adjusted Floyd's body to lay flat." Just watch the 9+ minute video again. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
4. In 'Events' section : delete word "sobbing" since Floyd was not sobbing.
5. In 'Events' section : add, "When a witness tried to approach Chavin after Floyd became unresponsive, Chavin removed his hand from his pocket and appeared to mace the person, as the person also states on the video recording." This is in the 9+ minute video. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't think the suggestions are correctly interpreted:
It's very important to be accurate. Do these explainations help? Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
The source is the video for 3,4,5. The picture of Floyd and Chauvin is from the video, and quotations are provided from the video. Thus it's already an approved source. Item 1 is a format suggestion, doesn't require a source. Item 2 we're discussing in another talk thread. Pasdecomplot (talk) 13:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Insert two sentences in paragraph after bodycam comments and before quotations from Floyd as he was being killed : "A surveillance camera shows Floyd was in the police vehicle as an officer repeatedly reached in and the vehicle rocked. Floyd was then pulled out of the police vehicle on the side away from the cameras, where he was held face down by the three police officers with Chavin's knee on his neck." 81.185.163.252 (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Provided the source in the same but simplified edit suggestion made after signing in. It's called "Add video..." Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Surveillance video does not appear to show George Floyd, who died after being pinned down by Minneapolis cops, resisting arrest — which police had claimed — in the moments before the deadly encounter. Floyd, who was black, can be seen on footage from a nearby restaurant Monday complying with cops as he’s led from a vehicle, CBS News reported. With his hands cuffed behind his back, he appears to be ordered to sit on the ground, which he does, video shows. The footage contradicts police accounts that Floyd “physically resisted officers” after he exited his vehicle.
Hi. The former links to the Death of Eric Garner with a hatnote pointing here. There's also the I Can't Breathe (disambiguation) page. Should "I Can't Breathe" now become the disambig page? Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 11:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
It seems to me that all the images and videos do not show those two police vehicles surrounded (until after they drive into the crowd). Can we have a source that confirms they were surrounded?Slatersteven (talk) 15:38, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
This is page is rated low importance. Shouldn't it be rated higher? There's a curfew where I live, and multiple people have died in the protests. This is arguably the most important article as of now (June 1), and it has about 4.6 million total page views. Thanks, Thanoscar21talk, contribs 15:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Remember this page is under DS sanctions, we have all breached them I suspect but wp:onus means it is on those who want to include something to "win" the argument. If people continue to ignore wp:brd I will ask for intervention, stop now.Slatersteven (talk) 09:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
The current lead says that he was pined down while talking for 7 minutes and while he was unconscious for another 4 minutes. I don't think the total was as much as 11 minutes. Also, the sources never say that he was face down for all 7 minutes. You can see his face to his right, not down, in our current photo. --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 17:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
You can see his face to his right, yes you can, and his face is down on the pavement. You need to explain why you keep changing that sentence to your preferred version, when reliable sources support the sentence as it was written. Isaidnoway (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Blake Live And Ryan Reynolds Are Doing Their Part To Help Protest Of George Floyd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.112.120.177 (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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"Derek Chauvin" should probably be written in bold in the lead 188.192.230.236 (talk) 01:57, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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I request that you change the term "died" to "was murdered" because that is what happened. He didnt die, he didnt get to go peacefully. Instead, he had his life forcefully taken away from him, he had that right taken away and that's not fair. 88.201.105.170 (talk) 19:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Dont have an insensitive image on the page. Have a picture of him instead, reflecting in a positive light. 86.14.43.104 (talk) 21:41, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Please fix the photo reference in the section "Memorials and protests". 72.138.20.20 (talk) 20:02, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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Change "man, died in the Powderhorn" to "man was murdered by Derek Chauvin in the Powderhorn" 118.102.107.165 (talk) 06:51, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
More appropriate for the 'Reactions' tab of the actual article, reduces confusion, not a news article. Kadzi (talk) 13:14, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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Typo/Broken link under Reactions -> Political -> Federal in the first paragraph. The Insurrection Act of 1807 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act_of_1807) is written as "Insurrection Act of 1847". Please change to link to the correct page and display the correct year. 222.166.230.144 (talk) 16:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Racism is not once mentioned!? --93.211.214.147 (talk) 14:02, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm not condoning what was shown in the video, I think it's awful. But why are you quick to bring up race? You don't know the cop. How do you know he identifies as white? He may look white but what if he's mixed race? What if the victim was white and the cop was black? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 240D:1A:8AF:4D00:9D18:C437:4F69:2E8C (talk) 18:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
--217.234.65.129 (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)--217.234.65.129 (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
There is yet no prove it was motivated by racism. Byulwwe (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
I'll check again, but records indicate Chauvin had a history of excessive force with Indigenous people and with African Americans. That signifies he has issues with non-white people, which makes him a racist and unfit for police work. Being that Floyd was African American, it's not speculation that racism was a factor in Chauvin killing Floyd. Look closely at the video again, and understand police departments across the US have been infiltrated by white supremacists. Even the FBI reported on the phenomena - and heavily redacted their entire report. Why is the country revolting if not for these reasons?Pasdecomplot (talk) 20:50, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
@Rhyddfrydol2: You do not speak for others - overseas or anywhere else. I disagree with you - being a European. You are not the preciding judge, and none of us know if this was an act of racism (even though it is easy to think so). Don't jump the gun before evidence is clear. At least not when editing Wikipedia. Lechatmarbre (talk) 15:42, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Do RS link the two?Slatersteven (talk) 12:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Whether the homicide involved racism is an interesting question, and, since Wiki is an encyclopedia, it should be an empirical one. Chauvin has lots of complaints against him. Was any excessive use of force directed toward minorities out of proportion to their involvement with police? Or was he an equal opportunity abuser? Any assumption about this without careful analysis reflects the racism of those doing the assuming. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:240:CB81:3770:8D05:E340:71D3:7B60 (talk) 20:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: it was reported that, while officers were trying to get him into the police vehicle, George Floyd told officers he was claustrophobic. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 12:14, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I added the criminal complaint to the article a couple of days ago. Death_of_George_Floyd#External_links. And under WP:PRIMARY it can be used as a source. We need to rid ourselves of the assumption that primary sources cannot be used-- that is not the policy. Rather, primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them. Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. WP:PRIMARY
The complaint is from an official source, and we can cite directly to that source for what it says. There is no need to look for a news report on what it says-- we can do that directly, so long as we don't put a gloss on it, interpret it, or draw conclusions. We can say what it says, but not what that means. Kablammo (talk) 19:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
AGREE The movement of Floyd is important to the article. The talk pages indicate he was put into the police vehicle from the driver's side (bodycams as source?) There's a video (ur_ninja link) when Floyd was in the vehicle but not visible; Vehicle sways, officer reaches in and out, then actions begin around the passenger side. Then another brief video (link provided in ur_ninja link) shows Floyd outside of the vehicle on the pavement of the passenger side, held down by Chauvin, Kueng, and Lane. But we need other sources, if I understand the public domain issue correctly. Pasdecomplot (talk) 22:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
i copied this from the protest article talk
hi i dont want to get in a fight or dig up the source but i was reading the hennepin da report for the charges against chauvin today and there were two things i noticed that wp doesnt yet reflect
1-
chauvin and thao were not the first responding squad but instead the backup
2-
one of the two original responding officers made three separate requests to roll floyd over during the kneeling incident, but was negated by chauvin each time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.209.131 (talk) 07:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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Change "White" to "Caucasian" in the description of this following sentence located in People involved. "Police officers Derek Michael Chauvin (born March 19, 1976), a 44-year-old white man" DR333AD (talk) 15:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
It makes more sense and is technically accurate RyanLB (talk) 15:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
No. I have already changed it once from "Caucasian" back to white. For a simple reason: that's what the sources say. At Wikipedia we follow the Reliable Sources, not our own preferences or opinions. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:03, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
No. That's a racist term! A passé, obsolete racial classification. --217.234.70.17 (talk) 02:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I am not an American and know little about Floyd. Just wanted to point out that somebody at the Spanish wikipedia described Floyd as a criminal (”delincuente habitual”), which doesn’t quite match the description of him here… I left a comment on their talk page. Could somebody with a more precise knowledge of the situation – and good knowledge of Spanish – maybe correct the Spanish article? https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muerte_de_George_Floyd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.145.195.78 (talk)
Toronto is in Ontario, Canada. It's not an State from U.S.A. LaIslaNegra2021 (talk) 23:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_George_Floyd#cite_note-136 LaIslaNegra2021 (talk) 23:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_George_Floyd#cite_note-136 It mentions Cities around the U.S.A , riots , ...Toronto 136. Toronto isn't in the U.S.A. LaIslaNegra2021 (talk) 23:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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We should say “assassinated” for his death. Just like Kennedy’s -thank you 104.35.155.197 (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 00:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Created by AshMusique (talk), Starship.paint (talk), and Shrinkydinks (talk). Nominated by Starship.paint (talk) at 05:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC).
This article used to include statements, with citation links, of where George Floyd went to high school and graduated, what work and accomplishments he had, like multi-sport athlete, and being a rapper in the group Screwed Up Click. Why were those deleted? <RickRiffel2020 (talk) 22:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)>
@InedibleHulk: It is not an unwritten rule. It's biology and evolution, thus basic instincts. We focus (unconsciously) on those issues that cause an unbalance, which is evolutionary smart if you wish to survive. For mammals there is no reason to waste energy on things that work (balance). That is also why "bad" news always garner a lot more attention than "good" news. Thus criminals will always attract more attention than the victims. Lechatmarbre (talk) 23:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I was wondering yesterday if George Floyd shouldn't get his own biography page to include these types of details. Kire1975 (talk) 04:34, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
As I see it either both the misdeeds of the cop and victim should be displayed or both should not. Either could have had a part to play in this. From the victims bias in the past and the cops bias in the past could have affected how they both reacted leading up to this. Shnappers (talk) 04:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
"misdeeds". I think that which is prominently presented by good quality sources should probably find its way into our articles; I am asking why we should omit that George Floyd got in trouble with the law for what The Guardian describes as an "armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston". Bus stop (talk) 04:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
This is about the crime, not the cop or the victim. As to pages about them, wp:n is clear, we do not create pages on people notable for one event.Slatersteven (talk) 09:33, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
And again, can we please have just one thread on this.Slatersteven (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
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Please strike the words "found no indication" and replace with the word "allege", then rework sentence as follows:
Corrected : 'Preliminary results from the official autopsy allege that Floyd did not die of strangulation or traumatic asphyxia, but ..." This correction is more accurate, since medical professionals viewing the video strongly disagree that the findings of the public medical examiner could be accurate. Also, this correction has been suggested before, but in a list of 5 suggested corrections and might be overlooked. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 10:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Then we should quote the statement directly, with quotation marks, then it would qualify as text from a medical statement. It does not qualify as that presently. A detail but we need to be very careful to not be biased in favor of institutions which are biased. In cases of wrongful deaths by police or in jails & prisons, municipal medical examiners are found to skew their reports in favor of their municipal co-workers, unfortunately. So, medical statements can be politicized in certain cases. The Floyd case is definitely vulnerable to political manipulation. Thus, the statement "found no evidence", etc is definitely problematic in this case especially since Floyd had all of the same health conditions before meeting Chauvin that day, while still alive. These are the points. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Then we should quote the statement directly, with quotation marks, then it would qualify as text from a medical statement. It does not qualify as that presently. A detail but we need to be very careful to not be biased in favor of institutions which are biased. In cases of wrongful deaths by police or in jails & prisons, municipal medical examiners are found to skew their reports in favor of their municipal co-workers, unfortunately. So, medical statements can be politicized in certain cases. The Floyd case is definitely vulnerable to political manipulation. Thus, the statement "found no evidence", etc is definitely problematic in this case especially since Floyd had all of the same health conditions before meeting Chauvin that day, while still alive. These are the points. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:15, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Then we should quote the statement directly, with quotation marks, then it would qualify as text from a medical statement. It does not qualify as that presently. A detail but we need to be very careful to not be biased in favor of institutions which are biased. In cases of wrongful deaths by police or in jails & prisons, municipal medical examiners are found to skew their reports in favor of their municipal co-workers, unfortunately. So, medical statements can be politicized in certain cases. The Floyd case is definitely vulnerable to political manipulation. Thus, the statement "found no evidence", etc is definitely problematic in this case especially since Floyd had all of the same health conditions before meeting Chauvin that day, while still alive. These are the points. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Hum, three replies posted... Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
For azurecitizen: I detect a definite bias in your response. Have you watched the video? Closely? The "other people...who are sure", as you say, are also medical professionals that know the difference between restraining positions and lethal restraining positions. Dr Rob Davidson, a twenty-year ER doctor has a very informative testimony. If you're interested in better understanding the issue and not falling for bias due to naivete, look at the link which I'll post. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Although it might seem contradictory, the reliability of the public autopsy report is at issue in these cases. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:59, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I've twice posted a source for the points I've made, but they aren't showing. Do you know why? Pasdecomplot (talk) 13:05, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Trying this https : // twitterdotcom / dr rob davidson / status / 12666894168972288 ?s=20 Pasdecomplot (talk) 13:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
For Pasdecomplot: I'm sure you saw the welcome message that was posted on your Talk page by another editor (per your response there). Check out the lower left hand portion of the chart, where it says "Policies and Guidelines," and start reading through the policies Neutral Point of View, Reliable Sources, Verifiability, Citing Sources, and No Original Research. If you're "interested in better understanding" as you said above, you'll find a lot of good information there. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Looking at the current article layout, where it is explicitly stated each time that white policeman killed black innocent guy, with all the links of the same below, the article becomes a horn of racism movement. This easily provokes hatred, unjustified vandalism and more crimes on streets. I would recommend to remove it from the article as irrelevant. And tidy up supporting links, adding all other cases where black policeman killed innocent white person, Chinese killed Latino etc. Violence in police is what needs to be targeted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.81.84 (talk) 12:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
|
There is a discussion at WP:Articles for deletion/Derek Chauvin (police officer) that might be of interest to editors here. -- MelanieN (talk) 04:42, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
German Nazis used slow strangulation by piano wire as the most cruel death, yet many of their traitors killed this way died significantly faster than George Floyd. Middle Eastern countries which use short-drop/no-drop hanging are criticised for their cruelty, even when most executed people keep their consciousness for just 1-3 minutes. But the page on George Floyd's death mentions just murder, killing and homicide, there's not a single word on sadistict torture as of now. I think this should be fixed (preferrably in bold).
→ Would you like it to be done in CAPITALS as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.81.84 (talk) 01:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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Add in the Red Summer under See Also 45.48.146.151 (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 00:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Created by AshMusique (talk), Starship.paint (talk), and Shrinkydinks (talk). Nominated by Starship.paint (talk) at 05:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC).
For bot: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starship.paint (talk • contribs) 07:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
This edit request to Death of George Floyd has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Here's a link to a video where Floyd is in police vehicle, before being pulled out onto the pavement.
Add sentence to opening description (between language about bodycams and language about Floyd's pleas) : "Another surveillance video reveals Floyd was in the police vehicle when officers repeatedly reache in and the vehicle shakes, after which Floyd is pulled out of the vehicle away from the cameras, and held down by the three officers with Chavin's knee on Floyd's neck."[1] Pasdecomplot (talk) 19:54, 31 May 2020 (UTC) Pasdecomplot (talk) 19:54, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
References
Can't we copy it from UR_Ninja? Indie media for non-commercial use only, and Wikipedia meets their standards. They gained lots of respect as a solid source during Standing Rock, and have been working rather fearlessly for 5 years. Pasdecomplot (talk) 22:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, misspelled reach and Chauvin earlier. Pasdecomplot (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I've seen two versions of the video, the other without a verified source. There's movement from the passenger side on the pavement, away from the sidewalk and only shoulders and heads of Chauvin and Lane are visible, while the other two are still on the sidewalk. Floyd ended up on the pavement. It's a logical conclusion. But the issue is posting the video. What's being done? Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. I'll follow up with UR_Ninja, or Unicorn Riot, about the public domain issue of the minor video, which does not include a better image for the article. So, if the author of the major video, from which the screen shot was made, offers their work as public domain then that too could be ...linked as a reference? Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I have added a link to this new document to External links. Kablammo (talk) 22:40, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Can some information be gained as to whether it is normal for police to arrest a person who uses a counterfeit bill to buy something or deposit it in a bank? Firstly, the bill in question was relatively modest, $20.00. Secondly, is it the standard practice of police to take the word and identification of a store clerk that said bill is indeed counterfeit? Thirdly, I know from personal experience that just because someone uses a counterfeit bill that doesn’t necessarily mean that he or she was aware of it let alone actually printed it. I once took a cash deposit to our company’s bank and was informed by the teller that a $100 bill a customer gave to us was counterfeit. (In truth, I have no idea if that was true or not. It looked fine to me.) The bank didn’t call the police on me, thankfully. This whole thing seems peculiar to me and ought to scare all of us as anyone could be given a counterfeit bill and innocently attempt to use it elsewhere. So is this standard police practice regardless of the race of the alleged culprit? Or was something else going on regarding Mr. Floyd? Thank you.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 20:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
While multiple sources say she livestreamed the video on Facebook, it seems like she uploaded it a couple hours later. Should we correct this?The lorax (talk) 03:21, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
The video was not live-streamed confirmed that from her Facebook pageOlatunde Brain (talk) 09:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
What was the Date of birth of George Floyd? GrimRob (talk) 22:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Per the closing of the Move discussion, I have posted a Category Move discussion for Category:Death of George Floyd. Others who contributed to the Move discussion (on both sides) may wish to contribute to the category discussion. The discussion is here.--Mike Selinker (talk) 12:13, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Discussion collapsed to aid readability of page | ||||
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SurveyFirst convenience section
Second convenience section
References
Tally
[Latest update: Bubka42 (talk) 01:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)] 100 For, 63 Against as of 11:19, 30 May 2020 (UTC). There will be errors because of the number of votes feel free to edit it. Note I only looked at bold text or text next to a built point and only in the survey section. — RealFakeKimT 11:19, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionAlmost every "oppose" vote argues that a pathology report is needed to ascertain whether Floyd was killed, or implies that "killing" has the same meaning as "murder."
Arguments that murder and killing are the same, that a pathology report is needed, or that reliable sources don't use this phrase, are all false. -Darouet (talk) 20:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed a shift over the course of this Requested Move from "oppose" to "support". That implies that the facts of the event are still coming out, and this Requested Move was started too quickly. Should this be speedily closed as too soon? Benica11 (talk) 00:31, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
So, if not 'killing of...' then perhaps it would be more clear to express the idea of 'brutal death circumstances of ...' HM7Me (talk) 02:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Hennepin County Medical Examiner on 5/28 :
I understand emotions are running high. I understand what the video looks like. I completely understand how the video makes people feel and that it may seem insulting to say we don't know how Floyd died. The fact is, we don't have a reliable source for how he died and the various reliable sources covering this are not consistent in how they describe the events. As soon as a Medical Examiner's report is in calling this a homicide or something equivalent I will support moving this to "Killing of George Floyd". —DIYeditor (talk) 05:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Why is this a debate, he was killed. When you stick your knee into someone who is on the ground handcuffed and unable to defend himself, it is a murder, however we can’t say that until the police officer is charged. In conclusion, it is a killing, so please change the title. 2001:8003:20F0:E700:D4FD:EE78:7ACC:898C (talk) 06:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Accidentally kill https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/nov/29/what-happens-to-your-life-after-you-accidentally-kill-someone unintentional killing https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html No killing does not mean intentional or murder.Slatersteven (talk) 12:14, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
(emphasis added). I will point out that when referring to the medical situation, the legal principle of Eggshell skull applies - it's not even a legal defence. But we're not currently debating the legal situation of culpability, but the act of "killing" - which isn't necessarily unlawful. The autopsy suggests against "traumatic asphyxia or strangulation" - but Positional asphyxia is not discussed. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 13:43, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
And, having just googled the above, I encountered:
Call for change of vote Most of the oppose votes above hinged on the fact that from neutrality considerations, we should wait for an autopsy report to indicate that the death was not from natural causes. Now that an independent autopsy has established it was a homicide[6], I request these members to change their votes to support. I also believe this now falls under WP:SNOW, as it is difficult to argue now in good faith that it's not neutral to call it a killing. Bubka42 (talk) 23:38, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Oppose Violates WP:MOS. Nightvour (talk) 01:39, 2 June 2020 (UTC) Make the move immediately. We like to say There Is No Deadline, but that doesn't really apply here. We have to choose between two titles, and our editors clearly favor "killing" as more befitting for all manner of reasons, particularl in light of filed charges and medical results. Feoffer (talk) 02:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC) References
Comment. The Medical Examiner has come to the same ruling of homicide as the private autopsy. IssaRevol (talk) 04:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Change those articles as well. Homicide is synonymous with killing, let Wikipedia say things as it is. Phonehead (talk) 09:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC) |
The result of the move request was: moved. I'm choosing to expedite this move rather than wait the full 7 days due to sizable interest and participation. I note that many of those opposing the move did so before the Hennepin County Medical Examiner had concluded that the death was a homicide. As such and in light of this key argument, I am deeming there being sufficient consensus for moving the title. It is important to note that this assessment on my part was based on the strength of the arguments, not the aggregate tally. It is also important to mention that this expedited close was not a WP:SNOW close. While this was a lively debate, I don't think prolonging it is likely to change the outcome or would be a benefit for the project. I thank the overwhelming majority of participants for their well-thought-out arguments as well as for their civil disposition. El_C 11:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Death of George Floyd → Killing of George Floyd – While murder isn't appropriate for an ongoing investigation, "killing" seems an appropriate description of events, and is backed up by a reliable source.[1][2] On the other hand, other sources call it a "death".[3] As such, I'm neutral myself, but think that a discussion is appropriate.
References
– ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 19:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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