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There is a general theme made several times in the article that the Soviets had sought to undermine Germany for years, and signed the pact because Britain and France and other powers would not act against Germany. It is also mentioned that the Soviets needed to sign the pact as a way to prepare against a German invasion. Is there any real evidence to support this? If not, I would really like to take this Stalinist apology out. TDC 17:30, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
Soviet apologecy and propaganda are not at all irrelevant, as it influenced the public opinion (and official propaganda) as far away as in France, Britain and the United States. However, the article might well be served by a more careful wording. --Johan Magnus 17:55, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The Soviets did resist the Nazi's in Spain, they did offer complete support to the Czechs (the western powers actively kept them out of the 4 power discussion prior to Munich - the 4th country being Italy which gave diplomatic support to Germany), they even proposed joint action to save what was left of the Czechs when Hitler violated Munich, the Soviets proposed alliance over Poland (the UK & France but mainly the UK refused). On all these points the USSR opposed the Nazis when the westrn powers can barely be described as neutral. On this point I would also like to see removal of the sentence "Furthermore, the Soviet Union pursued a policy of encouraging capitalist countries to fight each other, in order to stimulate World Revolution" & the paragraph further down about the Soviets not being interested in the status quo. The Soviet economy was growing so fast that the status quo was very much in their interest & they did not engage in adventurism either in Europe or against the Japanese or Turks. This might be arguable for the 20s. When Hitler came to power the Soviets very actively sought a Popular Front against him, including subordinating the revolutionary instincts of western communist parties to a joint alliance. Stalin can be attacked for cynically selling out communism in the interests of western friendship but not vice versa. The Hitler Stalin Pact only took place after the attempt to achieve such an alliance had repeatedly failed. Neil Craig
We should be careful, in light of subsequent events, to take Stalin's offer of "help" for the Czechs in 1938 at face value; the western allies' rejection of alliance with Stalin was due, at least in part, to their suspicions of his ulterior motives. --ProhibitOnions 12:33, 2005 May 20 (UTC)
Speculation. Facts, please. Mikkalai 18:15, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Er, oops! I intended to move the page to Hitler-Stalin Pact but I left out the hyphen. Is this a problem for anybody?
For that matter, is it better to use the colloquial term "Hitler-Stalin Pact", which may be more familiar to non-historians? I think hardly any readers would recognize the names of Molotov or Ribbentrop; and would have no idea why they would make a pact. But most readers interested in history would know who Hitler and Stalin were.
In any case, I meant no harm. Revert the move if it was just another one of my dumb ideas. --Uncle Ed (talk) 16:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Article should be called "Nazi-Soviet Pact" since that is its most popular name. -- Vision Thing -- 12:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
According to Google search (English pages, -wikipedia) "Nazi-Soviet Pact" returns 43,200 results and "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" 36,900 results. However, I think it is even more important that search by Google Scholar for "Nazi-Soviet Pact" returns 3,140 results and search for "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" 1,510 results. That shows that name "Nazi-Soviet Pact" is used overwhelmingly more in scholarly literature. -- Vision Thing -- 18:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Firstly...
+"Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" +1939 +August = 28,100 +"Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" +1939 -August = 13,200
So, 28,100/(28,100+13,200=41,300) of sources, 68%, explicitly including August (month signed) use Molotov-Ribbentrop.
Whereas
+"Nazi-Soviet Pact" +1939 +August = 25,200 +"Nazi-Soviet Pact" +1939 -August = 19,600
So, 25,200/(19,600+25,200=44,800) of sources, 56%, explicitly including August use "Nazi-Soviet," meaning that across the two comparisons, of sources that bother to even care about the month the pact was signed (ergo more "in depth"), a larger percentage of sources use "Molotov-Ribbentrop."
Secondly...
+"Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" +August +23 +1939 = 9,660 +"Nazi-Soviet Pact" +August +23 +1939 = 4,730
Ergo, sources that bother to mention the actual date prefer Molotov-Ribbentrop to Nazi-Soviet by a factor of two to one. So let's stop turning everything into a useless and utterly vapid popularity contest argument. I'm not here to argue "my Google" is more "representative" than someone else's Google. I'm here to argue Google gives you any results you want and is therefore c**p when it comes to these discussions and is why we should stick to usage in expert texts covering the topic in depth. —PētersV (talk) 18:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
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