Talk:Martin O'Neill

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Derry

What is the problem with the line I had in, it simply states fact. It is used in the Seamus Heaney article and has worked well. And on a point of fact, supposodly what Wiki is based on, the Irish for County Derry is Doire, there is no Irish translation for Co.Londonderry. In Ireland, Derry is known by its rightful name and the Irish language does not have a name for what foreigners call the place.--Play Brian Moore 23:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Not that it is particularly relevant to the article, or even properly encyclopaedic, but can you provide a citation for Martin O'Neill referring to to Co. Londonderry as Co. Derry, especially since, as has been discussed elsewhere, there never was a "County Derry". As to what is a rightful name, it could be argued that the rightful name of a place is that placed upon it by its rightful sovereign, that being recognised in international law as HM the Queen (acting through her Government and her Parliament), regardless of what previous owners might have called the place. As you have previously noted, the Irish name for what foreigners call the place is Doire. Holford 23:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I provided relevent quotes in relation to Seamus Heaney and it wasn't enough. It's typical ignorance that people won't let a line that simply states fact stand. Why should things be different for two Catholics from County Derry, Heany gets the line, O'Neill doesn't. Wheres the consistency? Seems like pettyness of the highest order. I have come to expect nothing more on Wiki.--Play Brian Moore 00:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

From the discussion on Seamus Heaney, it appears that there is a supporting quote from Heany, in the Nobel speech. Do you have an similar quote from Martin O'Neill. And that being said, why do you want to add something to the article that is patently unencyclopaedic? Just because something is a fact doesn't mean it should be included. Martin O'Neill might have had a bowl of porridge for breakfast this morning, but just because someone finds out that its a fact doesn't mean it should be included in an encyclopaedic article. Who cares what he calls the County of his birth? Are you systematically going through every article about a person from County Londonderry and adding this bit of crap just to make a political point?Holford 01:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As I asked before, where is the consistency on Wiki, one article has the line, another doesn't. Maybe it should be removed from Seamus Heaney then to achieve some sort of level of consistency around here. Relax by the way, you clearly feel very strongly about this and looking at your user page I know why.--Play Brian Moore 15:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Can we calm down guys, please. This is not the end of the world, either way. Lets see if we can't get some consensus here. Is there any objection to inclusion of his religion? No. Then lets add that for a start. If the strokecity terminology is so contentious, maybe we should avoid it. Can't we just say " ... near Coleraine, Northern Ireland...."? Would that be acceptable to everyone? MurphiaMan 06:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking at my user page you know why I feel strongly about this? I had to look at my user page again, because I couldn't image how you would know anything from it. I still can't. The only thing I care about is keeping the encyclopaedia encyclopaedic. I'm against any POV promotion. Holford 19:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You state your religon son. Is mise--Play Brian Moore 23:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand some of what you just said there. (What is "mise"?) You must be familiar with some Eastern Orthodox Christians who have strong feelings about this. I'm not and I don't. In fact, being neither Protestant nor Catholic, I don't have a vested interest on either side. And being neither British nor Irish, I'm neutral there too. And if you love Oasis and like Artic Monkeys, I'm probably too old for you to call "son". Holford 23:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Where dya live son?. Oh wait, thats right, the United Kingdom of 'Great' Britain and Northern Ireland. Hence, your bound to be even slightly biased. Mise is the Irish for 'me' hence is mise' simply means I am. N o harm done.--Play Brian Moore 00:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

You really are looking hard to find bias in me when you are the only one that has shown any. In fact, if I were to be biased on the basis of religion, it would be with the Catholics, as we share sacramental and sacerdotal theology. On the basis of geographical origin, my wife is Welsh with no love for the English. My only bias here is against using Wikipedia to promote POV or a political agenda. BTW, on your user page you ask about the status of Wales - it's principality.

I've shown as much bias as you. The fact remains that he calls it Derry, the original basis for the argument/discussion. If foreigners want to come in and tell me its called something, no attention will be paid to them. Its typical English pettyness to want to kepp the wrong name and typical English petyness to even want to keep the 6 counties. Maybe Irish people should call it Dublinderry and English should call it Londonderry but of course that would be rediculous and too far.--Play Brian Moore 13:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

My point is that it doesn't matter what he calls it, because it isn't germaine to the article. And in international law, the British are not foreigners and the 6 counties are a province of the United Kingdom. There is a time and place for calling things as we would like them to be, but an encyclopaedia is neither.Holford 21:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Well the Irish aren't foreigners in their own country, just to clarify. Citizens of the 6 counties can claim either Irish or British citizenship. So the name of the place, which was originally called Derry and with a majority of the modern day population wanting to call it Derry, most certainly should not be called anything else. That seems to make sense to me for one.--Play Brian Moore 01:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I never disputed calling the city Derry, as per the comment by Stumason below. The county was never originally called anything, because it was created after the British conquest. Martin O'Neill can call it anything he likes. It is still not going to be relevant to the article. Holford 18:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The naming dispute agreement was that the city is Derry, the county is Londonderry. By clicking on the County Londonderry link a full explanation of the name is given. It is speculation to presume that he calls it County Derry. On a broader note, is this change stays are we going to change every article on protestants from Derry, to reflect the fact they most likely call it Londonderry? Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

TV pundit

Should there not be a mention of his work as a pundit on televised football? He seems to have been on a lot in the recent World Cup (on the BBC I think), plus other prominent games as well, I think. --A bit iffy 22:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Inexplicable

What exactly is inexplicable about Aston Villa fans wanting to buy season tickets now that they have a successful manager? It's not even spelt right. I am going to take that word out.

Tell you what IS inexplicable - there being about a third of the article discussing the last four months, and a whole (non-NPOV) paragraph about one game! Does that count as 'encyclopedic', or just some Villa fan creating hype? Gone.

Requested Photo

It would be good to have a photo of him in his playing career, perhaps, as well.

Leeds

I've added a section on his (now confirmed by him) agreement to leave Celtic and become Leeds manager in Jan 2003 as alleged in Peter Ridsdale's book. -- --Jw2034 15:41, 4 November 2007 (GMT)

I think this poorly written section should be merged into the Celtic section, and should be perhaps half a sentence long. 90.194.100.16 (talk) 22:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

31

What's the significance of the number he wears on his jacket? Someone once told me there was a reason why he wears the number 31, which he did at Celtic as well as the Villa.  slυмgυм [[User talk:Slumgum|[ ←]]→ ] 18:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Playing days

There should be far more about Martin's playing career, as he was quite an accomplished and successful midfielder. The trouble with Wikipedia is that it focuses on the present too much, leaving a lot of historical detail out. I confess I don't know much about him, which is why I looked here in the first place! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.74.247 (talk) 21:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, as a double european cup winner and a league champion, he should have a full playing profile. I have neither the time or the knowledge to do this. Wikipedians, Martin o'Neill needs you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.198.220.139 (talk) 16:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Education

I believe he initially attended St. Columb's in Derry but after his family moved to Belfast, he then transferred to St. Malachy's where he completed his A levels. While at St. Malachy's they reached the MacRory Cup final and this was due to be played at Casement Park. However, the GAA said he could not play there as he played soccer for Distillery. The game was transferred to another ground and he played.

This is covered in the RTE Radio talk he recently gave which is still available on RTE.ie site. Perhaps someone with more time could re-write this section?

P O'Colla —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocolla (talk • contribs) 13:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Leeds contract

It seems that someone has thought that Harry Potter, Weasley and Dumbledore had something to do with Martin O'Neill's contract. Someone should change this. --Fiddle and herman (talk) 16:20, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Done, though for future reference: you can do it yourself. Check the history of the page, find the vandalism revision and then revert it. For more information see Help:Page_history. Thanks for notifying us. Regards, Woody (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Reputation/standing

Is there a suitable way of stating O'Neill's reputation in the eyes of most football fans? Consensus is that he's one of the best managers currently in the game, eg touted as possible successor to Alex Ferguson, and tipped for England. Can this be incorporated into the intro with a reference, perhaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.230.100 (talk) 21:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Leaving Villa Rumours

might as well have this here...91.104.127.57 (talk) 13:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

No we don't. Until we get a verifiable statement from the club that something is up then we leave the article as at the status quo. Woody (talk) 13:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, would someone edit it out though please?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.57.216 (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It has been removed now and protected for the time being to prevent further disruption. Regards, Woody (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Name

The great man's full name is not "Martin O'Neil" but Martin Hugh Michael O'Neill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3357303.stm

90.200.240.178 (talk) 18:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

See also the Alex Montgomery biography, p.276 90.200.240.178 (talk) 18:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I have also added his goals from Nottingham Forest, with a source, only to see it reverted to zero. Might I remind editors that the 'pending changes' setting shouldn't be used to block geniune additions or maintain wrong information - especially on a BLP 90.200.240.178 (talk) 15:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, I've restored it. Though it was cockup rather than conspiracy. Your edit must have been added to the pending queue after I read the article page with a view to removing the rumour, so when I reverted the rumour, your good edit went with it. Again, sorry. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:10, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Are we sure on that? i'm sure i heard Alan Pardew call him something different at the recent Newcastle United - 5under1and derby game, i think it rhymed with clucking stunt. lol--The Mercenary 73 (talk) 20:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Why did he resign as Villa manager?

The article needs to mention O'Neill's reasons for doing so.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

do you have a source that gives these 'reasons'. Monkeymanman (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

He must have given SOME explanation. There's not even an attempt here to enlighten the reader.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i am not going to search for you, but if there was some explanation then a reliable source would show it. Monkeymanman (talk) 13:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Fine, I've done it myself.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Nationality

I see there's an edit war over Martin O'Neil's nationality (one editor putting Irish, the other British, with neither using WP:RS). I've put in from Northern Ireland's nationalist community, with the Northern Ireland bit sourced from the Guardian. This may be wrong - as I understand it, under the peace agreement he has the choice of taking an Irish passport, but should be backed up with reliable sources. Equally, there may be some Wiki convention I don't know about on this as I would have thought it's an issue that's cropped up elsewhere. Again, please show if this is the case. Mattun0211 (talk) 01:57, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

He played international football for Northern Ireland. This would not have been possible had he not been a UK national. Therefore we know that he is British. He may also have taken up his entitlement to ROI citizenship, but we would need a reliable source. Mooretwin (talk) 13:10, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

His nationality should simply be Northern Irish as either Irish or British would be WP:OR without a source and not his FIFA defined nationality anyway so irrelevant. Adam4267 (talk) 15:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Since his OBE isn't honourary, he is a British citizen.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 15:44, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually he is not a British citizen. An OBE can be awarded to British nationals OR anyone who makes an impact for the UK. Martin is an Irish citizen. If you listen to his interview: Martin O'Neill on Irishness you will hear him say he was brought up in an Irish nationalist family therefore making him Irish JLSCrawford (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2013 (UTC)JLSCrawford

Again, his OBE isn't honourary. They can be awarded to anyone but if they aren't a UK citizen then it's an honourary award. Being brought up by a nationalist family means nothing other than his family is Irish, not him himself. Martin himself clearly isn't that nationalist because he chose to represent Northern Ireland rather than the republic.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 21:56, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

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Nationality

There has been a recent dispute about Martin O'Neill's nationality. Its my understanding that he is Northern Irish on the basis that that is where he was born, where he played for and what FIFA describe him as. Is this ok with everyone. C. 22468 Talk to me 23:09, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

First Tyne-Wear derby in 2011 or 2012?

The Sunderland has a paragraph about his 2011 matches which mentions a "first" Tyne-Wear derby, then a paragraph about his 2012 matches, with another "first" Tyne-Wear derby. Can someone review that section? Gronky (talk) 17:31, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

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