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I've just removed the section on Cathy O'Brien. Her claims are both more unsupported than the other similar entries, and more lunatic fringe, even within the conspiracy culture. She has apparently made assertions of the alien-lizard-overlord types, linked it to the satanic ritual abuse moral panic, and no evidence has been found (apart from her testimonies) of her purported "project Monarch" program (a title, given its overtones of both transformation and rulership, I find rather pretentious and indicative). O'Brien isn't a notable victim, she's notable for being a victim, and it's a bit of an odd argument to make but including her here seems to be undue weight on an extremity of a fringe theory on a page that's already very fringe-y. I don't think it's comparable to have information on actual victims for known projects, and then throw in one self-published claim on a project that doesn't appear to exist, claiming things which are beyond what most people recognize as possible within basic physics and biology, with no real proof, many criticisms, and a variety of BLP concerns - her claims are of abuse by significant public figures and with sources that would never pass muster in their actual pages. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 17:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
There should be a minor section on these claims, but not as under the heading of one person's name. There is an archive of a site that has claims of the formula for creating a slave (it's interesting, but I don't buy into it for one minute). raganbaby_6 22:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raganbaby 6 (talk • contribs)
Note that the documentation released by the CIA indicates that some 44 univerisities, 15 research companies, 12 hospitals and 3 prisons. The number of unsuspecting victims experimented on numbers in the thousands. The emphasis in the literature is on LSD (typical CIA cover, bought hook line and sinker by most authors), but the truly effective "truth serum" drugs are probably hypnotic type drugs that also give the victim amnesia. See wikipedia flunitrazepan. It would not be suprising if more than just the two victims indicated in the article were killed, and surely, many victims have long lasting mental problems due to these experiments. The development of the perfect spy, a Manchurian Candidate, development of truth serums, amnesia producing debriefing drugs and techniques, clandestine communication systems have all been successfully developed by these sort of experiments. Sadly, what came out about MKULTRA is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps the country is ready for another dose of documentation, then again, perhaps not. After some time, amnesia wears off you see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.3.228 (talk) 23:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I've redirected Project Bluebird here - the page was stubby and apparently nothing more than a precursor to MK-ULTRA anyway. I'm contemplating something similar for various other projects with similar single-section, low-reference formats. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 14:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Australia has been doing this to it's people since the late 1970's.
Australia, for those who think "BLACK AND WHITE LODGE", need look no further than Australia.
202.124.89.92 (talk) 01:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess this has to do with Project MKULTRA too? --90.230.133.224 (talk) 23:28, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
The French Bread/LSD angle is sketchy at best. The symptoms of those who ate the 'cursed bread' included gangrene, sickness that occurred more than a week after the poisoning, deaths from physical symptoms, and hallucinations that started 4-6 hours after ingestion. (LSD generally takes effect 1-2 hours after.) All of these oddities point very clearly to Ergot poisoning, and simply aren't consistent with LSD (although for what it's worth, LSD is chemically very similar to Ergot, and the first LSD was derived from the Ergot fungus.) Accusing the CIA of poisoning dozens of citizens in an allied country is a the kind of claim you need to back up with some solid evidence, and a book quote from an attention-hungry, sensationalist author in a second-rate British Tabloid doesn't cut it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.147.231 (talk) 05:01, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I received my copy of A TERRIBLE MISTAKE by H.P. Albarelli, Jr. and I have read most of it. I find the evidence presented therein compelling, and I note that the reviews have been excellent. Based on Albarelli's extensive research, I have added the following to the "Deaths" section of the MKULTRA article:
Albarelli quotes several prominent researchers who eventually concluded that the Pont-St.-Esprit poisonings were deliberately caused. These included John Grant Fuller, the author of THE DAY OF ST. ANTHONY'S FIRE, which originally discussed the Pont-St.-Esprit case as an extreme example of accidental ergot poisoning. Decades later, after the details of Frank Olson's death became public, Fuller concluded that LSD was likely involved. Disparities between the known effects of LSD ingestion at normal dosages (100 to 1,000 micrograms) and the symptoms presented by the Pont-St.-Esprit victims were viewed as the likely result of massive dosages due to multiple delivery systems and complete lack of dosage control.
Albarelli unearthed one particularly fascinating detail: Frank Olson's "suicide" is taught by the Israeli Mossad as an example of "the perfect murder."
BTW, if anyone can clean up the formatting of my reference, that would be appreciated. Apostle12 (talk) 22:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
If he thinks having a clandestine agency's government agent admittedly being in the room with the person when he kills himself by "falling" out the window none the less is considered "the perfect murder" then well...that brings the rest of this book's statements into questions... If it was the "perfect murder" people would not still be talking about it like 40 years later. thats just an asanine statement.. The perfect murder would be him dieing in his bed of "natural causes" not something that is going to draw as much attention as possible. You are adding information alleging an international incident with 1 source that is by someone selling a book to make some cash 40 years later. I would think a little bit more of a source is in order. There a million books with conspiracy theories. Do you have a secondary reliable reference? like the associated press.. or are they all in on it too? at the very most this belongs under conspiracy theories as cited.. which is where Ive moved it too-Tracer9999 (talk) 18:11, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I posted the following at Talk:Pont-Saint-Esprit but I guess it's relevant here.
Extra note: if Wikipedia decides to trust Albarelli's absurd theories over the work of respected historians like Steven Kaplan, then I guess it means that the CIA is injecting LSD through the website. Pichpich (talk) 02:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC) Extra extra note. This is a nice summary of credible people destroying Albarelli. Pichpich (talk) 03:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
References
Does anyone have any idea why the footnotes currently display two #30's? The links work, but from then on the list of notes is behind by one.—DocWatson42 (talk) 02:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
"...and several had just been identified and prosecuted as war criminals during the Nuremberg Trials." seems to say the word "just" as if the Nuremberg Trials, which took place more than 50 years ago, was recent to the writing of this article. 66.183.59.211 (talk) 06:05, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
The facts in this section appear cherry picked and skewed towards the Lyndon LaRouche "Aquarian Conspiracy". It's not neutral and needs to be removed or rewritten. Viriditas (talk) 02:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
LaRouche often disparages the counterculture. In 1978, he wrote that "The Beatles had no genuine musical talent, but were a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division (Tavistock) specifications, and promoted in Britain by agencies which are controlled by British intelligence."
Sexual abuse is mentioned in the intro but never again. Some please clarify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.90.26 (talk) 21:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I was about to post that question too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.109.175.116 (talk) 00:52, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
I know of at least one movie (The Killing Room) that references MKULTRA, surely there are others worth adding to this article as well? 96.254.15.157 (talk) 16:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I don't contribute to Wikipedia often, so I am not aware of conventions regarding posting in the talk page. However, I thought it would be good to add a Cultural Significance section as well, since Muse's song MK Ultra at least gets its name from this program, and seems to be about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.157.93 (talk) 17:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I read the whole article and I can say that it fails to explain what it’s all about. The article seems to say "something happened and it involved drugs and abuse", but it doesn't explain why. Does anyone know whose idea was it, specifically why was it set up and what were its goals?
Obviously they were 'testing the water' to make use of the mind-control methods that they were experimenting with. This makes it a very serious subject (this added to the horrible treatment of victims during the project itself and thus also a violation of human rights.) Thus, the question of WHY is so important. Neurolanis (talk) 02:25, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
The second sentence of the introduction says that the project "began in the early 1950s [and] continued at least through the late 1960s". This may well be correct but I don't have time to wade through the 4 or 5 substantial sources given, and I have a reference from The Observer that the project continued "well into the 70s", so as per WP:BOLD I am going to change the aforementioned sentence. If I'm wrong then simply revert it.Farrtj (talk) 02:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I have changed all the references (with the exception of the article title, although I've contacted an admin about changing it) to "MKULTRA" with "MKUltra" as is the preferred casing of The Guardian, The Times, The New York Times and The Independent. Farrtj (talk) 01:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." Farrtj (talk) 02:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Oppose: The MKUltra page is long enough and as large a topic as we want already. We don't want it to be made any larger. Farrtj (talk) 03:20, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Oppose: Both are notable topics, and are covered in depth by enough sources, that they warrant their own articles. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 03:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Oppose: Project Bluebird links to the MKUltra page and yet there is absolutely no information about it. I suppose we can expect the same standard this time around? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.218.21.149 (talk) 02:57, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Oppose: It appears from new documents most recently declassified as of 2013 that in fact Artichoke might possibly have existed prior to Bluebird, prior in fact to the formation of the CIA, and might indeed have originated out of Paperclip. Evidence supporting this view seems to imply that there was spying amongst the spies, and questions as to whom should be let in on Artichoke. It would seem to imply that Gottlieb was in fact originally out of the loop, but as head of Technical Services Staff division at CIA, Chemical Division, ordering LSD-25 from Sandoz, he was already privvy to some of the details so why not let him in on all of them. MK-Ultra itself was merely a funding umbrella, which is noted in Subproject 28. The most troubling new revelations seem to concern the use of hypnotism and "special" chemical agents on "witting" or unwitting "students" (quotation marks from source documents) and questioning who should choose the subjects. It seems to imply a coordinator effort with a CSI unit with FBI, CIA, Treasury to dose and then murder students (one would assume at McGill, Harvard, Cornell and other participating universities) and then later collect the bodies. To this fact, the point that artichoke was an assassination program, not just a torture or drug interrogation program, and to the point of developing manchurian candidate assassins, it puts many other salient details of other related programs in new lights. Operation Phoenix in Viet Nam for instance. Co-ordination with doctors working with troubled youths and gangs. Which would presumably be "less missed" than college students. And just seems vaguely more nazish. The really important and overlooked hiding in plain sight observation though, which you don't need any new material for, though, is contained in the appendix of the NY Times research on the Church hearings. It mentions the building of an annex at Georgetown Hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.179.2 (talk • contribs) 03:32, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
The heading reads: "1984 U.S. General Accounting Office Report".
The text reads "The U.S. General Accounting Office issued a report on September 28, 1994, which stated that between 1940 and 1974, DOD and other national security agencies studied thousands of human subjects in tests and experiments involving hazardous substances."
Which is correct? 1984 or 1994? Svyatoslav (talk) 07:02, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Can anyone explain what the Hypothetical Technology section is doing in this article? It contains no references, it's distracting, factually inaccurate, and reads like some pseudo-scientific conspiratorial speculation. Moreover, it has no relevance to this article, other than a vague and ambiguous statement that a quantum computer may have been possible around the time of MKUltra (it wasn't.) This section should not be here at all, let alone at the beginning of the article. 124.176.29.160 (talk) 11:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
The following was written by Marilyn Monroe in 1955 while staying at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York. It describes Sensory Deprivation, Dissociative Anesthetic Drugs, Psychic Driving and the effects of these applied Mind-Control techniques. The principle players in this story, Lee Strasberg received 75% of Marilyn's Estate and his theater and Anna Freud received 25% of Marilyn's Estate her 'permanent psychiatric cure': The Anna Freud Foundation. The Story is located in the book FRAGMENTS which was released in 2010. It was subsequently discovered by Jason Kennedy who is Marilyn's 2nd cousin once removed. The family webpage is located at www.marilynmonroefamily.com
Marilyn writes:
Best finest surgeon – Strasberg
waits to cut me open which I don’t mind since Dr H
has prepared me – given me anesthetic
and has also diagnosed the case and
agrees with what has to be done -
an operation – to bring myself back to
life and to cure me of this terrible dis-ease
whatever the hell it is -
Arthur is the only one waiting in the outer
room – worrying and hoping operation successful
for many reasons – for myself – for his play and
for himself indirectly
Hedda – concerned – keeps calling on phone during
operation – Norman – keeps stopping by hospital to
see if I’m okay but mostly to comfort Art
who is so worried -
Milton calls from office with lots of room
and everything in good taste – and is conducting
business in a new way with style – and music
is playing and he is relaxed and enjoying himself even if he
is very worried at the same time – there’s a camera
on his desk but he doesn’t take pictures anymore except
of great paintings.
Strasberg cuts me open after Dr. H gives me
anesthesia and tries in a medical way to comfort
me – everything in the room is white in fact but I
can’t even see anyone just white objects -
they cut me open – Strasberg with Hohenberg’s ass.
and there is absolutely nothing there – Strasberg is
deeply disappointed but more even – academically amazed
that he had made such a mistake. He thought there was going
to be so much – more than he had dreamed possible in
almost anyone but
instead there was absolutely nothing – devoid of
every human living feeling thing – the only thing
that came out was so finely cut sawdust – like
out of a raggedy ann doll – and the sawdust spills
all over the floor & table and Dr. H is puzzled
because suddenly she realizes that this is a
new type case of puple. The patient (pupil – or student – I started to write) existing of complete emptiness
Strasberg’s hopes & dreams for theater are fallen.
Dr H’s dreams and hopes for a permanent psychiatric cure
is given up – Arthur is disappointed – let down + — Preceding unsigned comment added by MM FAMILY (talk • contribs) 03:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Under the heading "Legal issues involving informed consent," an unnamed editor keeps adding the following:
An opinion similar to the above could be added if it can be reliably sourced. Otherwise this is OR, original research, which is not allowable.
Regarding repeated elimination of the word "illegal" in the lede, the article abounds with sourced information about Project MKUltra activities that were not legally sanctioned--the "Midnight Climax" operation in San Francisco, for example, where illegal brothels (not a sting operation) were operated so that "johns" could be dosed with LSD without their knowledge, observed and filmed.
In its reports the Church Committe was unequivocal in condeming the illegality of MKUltra programs run by the CIA. It is pure sophistry to claim that all the actions were "legal" simply because no individuals were criminally prosecuted. That no individuals were criminally prosecuted is evidence only of the effectiveness of government shielding, not the lack of criminality. An apropos antecedent would be Hitler's Third Reich, where the "legality" of murdering millions was meticulously maintained and documented. Apostle12 (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
As there has been no rebuttal to the statement above that the use of "illegal" is "not NPOV," I am going to remove it. It is merely an opinion and has no place in a factual article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.154.191.141 (talk) 16:26, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I don't have time to work out how to do an edit but I think the "Aftermath" section needs something on the Carl Clark interview by Armin Gross that recently was translated into English. It gives a clear indication that the methods developed in the MKUltra Project continue to be used today by Secret Services. see: Carl Clark Interview
I would suggest something like:
"In 2010 another intelligence community whistleblower Carl Clark claimed that he used techniques akin to those developed by the MKUltra Project on many targets and he claims to have become a target himself after talking about his work." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jed Stuart (talk • contribs) 04:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC) Jed Stuart (talk) 05:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
In June, someone removed the archives box, I'm not sure how to add it. Archive 1 Archive 2 Raquel Baranow (talk) 15:12, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Citation 51 cannot possibly be correct:
"Later forensic evidence conflicted with the official version of events; when Olson's body was exhumed in 1994, cranial injuries indicated that Olson had been knocked unconscious before he exited the window." (Marks 1979: chapter 5)
A book published in 1979 cannot testify to events taking place in 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.60.174.156 (talk) 13:06, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
MK Ultra subproject 119 included remote control of humans by electronic means experiments. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.48.120.112 (talk) 14:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
References
Regarding the following edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_MKUltra&diff=579465536&oldid=579283700
At a glance, it would appear that the information that was deleted is, in fact, documented in the book Acid Dreams. Here is a pdf of the book: http://wessexsolidarity.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/acid_dreams.pdf. Why don't we try rewording and locate the appropriate page numbers, given that there's a source. Elizabeth Blandra (talk) 20:40, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
they should be public domain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.29.0 (talk) 05:20, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
The two references used for including Theodore Kaczynski are articles in acceptable publications. However, these articles present not "evidence" but speculation and opinion. Saying (as the current MKUltra text does) that there is a "considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence" is misleading, and indeed the srticle goes on to say "Beginning at the age of sixteen, Kaczynski participated along with twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard experiments" when in fact neither of the references present factual evidence of this, but rather opinions based on "credible circumstantial evidence" - such that it is. The wording implies that there is little question, when in fact it is almost completely speculation. =//= Johnny Squeaky 21:37, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
All you had to do is remove credible from the sentence to keep it neutral. It allows the reader to draw his/her own conclusion. There is no reason to delete it or to tag it with a POV tag. TheycallmetheDoctor (talk) 05:04, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
There are no references that say Ted Kaczynski took part in Mk Ultra experiments - to say otherwise is Original Research. I've removed the section. Zambelo; talk 03:58, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I propose to include the following updates at the end of chapter "Aftermath".
Noam Chomsky identified ten media manipulation strategies[1]. The last strategy on his list is called "Getting to know the individuals better than they know themselves":
Over the past 50 years, advances of accelerated science has generated a growing gap between public knowledge and those owned and operated by dominant elites. Thanks to biology, neurobiology and applied psychology, the system has enjoyed a sophisticated understanding of human beings, both physically and psychologically. The system has gotten better acquainted with the common man more than he knows himself. This means that, in most cases, the system exerts greater control and great power over individuals, greater than that of individuals about themselves.[1]
Bogdan Alexandru Caprarescu published a document called "The Secret Organized Crime" in which he accuses an international criminal organization composed of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Romanian Intelligence Service (SRI), and presumably other secret services of many crimes including mind reading and human body control. Caprarescu witnesses that CIA and SRI read the thoughts of people and recorded the thoughts of people at least from 1996 to the present. Caprarescu witnesses that CIA and SRI control the following systems of the human body: nervous, cardiovascular, respiratory, gastrointestinal, and urogenital.[2][3]
References
Aren't there too tangential to be included? I added some context, but they seem way too tangential. What do you think? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
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there's a laurel halo song off her album quarantine called "MK Ultra". obviously that's a reference to this. it could be added to the pop culture references section if someone's up for that128.187.97.23 (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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there's a laurel halo song off her album quarantine called "MK Ultra". obviously that's a reference to this. it could be added to the pop culture references section if someone's up for that128.187.97.23 (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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I noticed some fringe groups saying that Sarah Kershaw was involved with exposing ancient MKUltra. The post was on Anonymous group page on Facebook:
The article they are referring to was a New York Times article in 2008, "Sharing Their Demons" found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/fashion/13psych.html?pagewanted=all
Quote:
Moscowamerican (talk) 05:03, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
This source "Constance Baker Motley, District Judge: OPINION / U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York - 660 F. Supp. 1291 (S.D.N.Y. 1987), May 5, 1987" can be used to add some facts about goverment consiracy and "wrongful death" caused by army&goverment into the article. `a5b (talk) 01:31, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
States that Bob Hope was one of her handlers in the MK ultra program and she was a sex slave..wrote book "Thanks for the memories "..also mentions Henry Kissinger..maybe include this (with disclaimer..sounds ridiculous to me) Beaglemix (talk) 14:36, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Her statements and self-published book should be included in "conspiracies " with cathy o'brien Beaglemix (talk) 15:11, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Cathy Obrien is listed in the article and her book was also self-published Beaglemix (talk) 18:40, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
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Should mention be made of Ted Kaczinski's supposedly being a Control test subject codenamed "Lawful"? It seems to be generally accepted as fact in any news article I read on it but even a mention in the Conspiracies section would do. --109.77.53.25 (talk) 08:42, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
It is often thought here in Australia that MKUltra operated here too, but there is not much evidence in the media to support that. This deep sleep seems to do that. I don't know whether SMH is regarded as a reliable source though, but regardless would it serve to establish the fact? Jed Stuart (talk) 03:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
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I came here after reading this page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_O%27Brien_(conspiracy_theorist)
I wouldn't suggest linking to Ms. O'Brien's page in a serious context, since it sounds like her descriptions of a supposed "Project Monarch" have been pretty thoroughly debunked. But since she has apparently had a pretty big effect on the culture of conspiracy theory fans, it might be worth including some reference to her -- perhaps in a "pop culture" section that also includes the Robert Ludlum books and the TV series Treadstone, both of which are also partially based on ideas central to this page's topic.
Neathming (talk) 19:58, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:22, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
This reference includes details about Canadian experiments and victims' claims for compensation and is suitable for article expansion. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/03/montreal-brainwashing-allan-memorial-institute --Danimations (talk) 07:26, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Wrong, no such thing as too embarrassed to x, can talk any no matter what. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyhendy (talk • contribs) 05:09, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
While there are no public references, there are claims that MKUltra was a cover story for the very early development of a computer interface to both the neurons of the brain and the wider body by means of a 3D maser scanner. The MKUltra experiments were to hide early test subjects, improve brain mapping and to test the effects of electrical load on the human body to confirm suspicions that muscle could be remotely driven. This latter issue being of prime importance due to the potential of AI impersonation of humans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.115.85.231 (talk) 06:38, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
This article states: "The experiments continued even after Dr. Frank Olson, an Army chemist who had not taken LSD before, went into deep depression after a surprise trip and later fell from a thirteenth story window." The Wikipedia page on Frank Olson himself states: "At a meeting in rural Maryland, he was covertly dosed with LSD by his CIA supervisor and, nine days later, plunged to his death from the window of a 10th-story New York City hotel room. "
There may be a discrepancy.
207.161.30.26 (talk) 19:18, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Claims Ken Kesey volunteered to be a subject, but the cite-ref #48 does not support the claim. It merely states that Kesey began promoting LSD after the CIA project. 伟思礼 (talk) 20:33, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Source number 50 https://www.thefix.com/cloak-and-dropper-twisted-history-cia-and-lsd?page=all seems to support claim he was volunteering. Polyison (talk) 20:44, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Mkultra is really a German Science or is derived from German/Nazi Science. find operation paperclip as process by which German Scientists worked here in the Usa and Mkultra has a link to those sciences https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-58-no-3/pdfs-vol-58-no-3/Watkins-Paperclip-3SEP-2014.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:9A00:2170:D1C4:5BCA:7DE2:B35F (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
All statements of fact, opinion, or analysis expressed in Studies in Intelligence and CSI Publications are those of the Authors. They do not necessarily reflect official positions or views of the Central Intelligence Agency or any other US government entity, past or present. Nothing in the contents should be construed as asserting or implying US government endorsement of an article's factual statements and interpretations.- LuckyLouie (talk) 17:35, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
Why would we not include Dr Colin A. Ross findings in the article? He is an expert on mind control and is one of the few authors who have reviewed the 15,000 declassified CIA reports. See this edit for details. --CarlPhilippTrump.me (talk) 21:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
I asked the editor who removed my addition of the doctor title to the doctors , on the notable people list why it was done, with no response. These people could only do what they did because they were doctor, and so should be identified as doctors. Just like in the Holocaust all killings were done with a doctor present to make it a legal operation. --Mark v1.0 (talk) 05:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 23 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Darrenb21.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 12:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Project MKUltra → MKUltra – "Project" is extraneous. Common name is MK ULTRA, MK Ultra, or a similar variation. , , , , Schierbecker (talk) 06:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2022 and 14 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mnbvcxz1234567 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Jadassims, Explorer300.
— Assignment last updated by Explorer300 (talk) 05:22, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Granite Flats is a 2013 TV show with MK Ultra as a major plot element. 216.97.250.186 (talk) 01:03, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
"Project MKUltra (or MK-Ultra)[a] was the code name of an illegal human experimentation program designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).[1][2][3] The experiments were intended to develop procedures and identify drugs such as LSD that could be used in interrogations to weaken individuals and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture." - this implies that MKULTRA was solely a human experimentation program run by the CIA, and does not cover the large amount of research projects not conducted by the CIA but funded by them under the umbrella of MKULTRA.
"activities carried out under the guise of research" - first off, MKULTRA was by definition a research project. Second, many experiments they funded were entirely legitimate and conducted entirely by non-CIA personnel (as well as some deeply unethical experiments that were not the CIA's idea and were not conducted by them). --Eldomtom2 (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Also "illegal" -- on what basis are we calling this "illegal"? Was there a court decision? At least two of the cited sources make no reference to whether MK Ultra is illegal (indeed, the google doc link, which appears to be a primary source, seems to quote a lot of people opining that the program was legal.) The rather amusingly titled "Today I found out..." site doesn't reference it either. The History Channel (a secondary source at best) talks about the program coming to light as part of an investigation into illegal activities...but it doesn't call MK Ultra illegal, either. Douglas Valentine does call it illegal from the quoted text, but judging from the rest of his body of work, at best he's a lone wolf, and at worst, it's an unreliable, biased source. (See, e.g., https://www.douglasvalentine.com/).
I'm not saying there aren't reliable sources establishing the illegality of MK-ULTRA, but they haven't been cited here. Jkp1187 (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The section title "Experiments on Danes" currently states:
I have read the English translation of the source provided and a few other articles about this (e.g. ). Per Wennick has made a few different claims here: 1) the CIA experimented on Danish children, 2) he was the subject of experiments, 3) he found MKULTRA records, and 4) the MKULTRA records were destroyed when he asked for them. I don't see that he has any actual evidence, but this passage seems to be written with the assumption that all of this actually happened. Certainly, we have a WP:REDFLAG claim here. @LuckyLouie, TheTimesAreAChanging, and Rja13ww33: I'm pinging you because you all seem to have had some experience with this article or other CIA-related articles, but don't feel any obligation to comment. -Location (talk) 22:25, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
References
I have removed the following sentence from the lede:
The cited article states:
Morrison & Foerster are the attorneys for the veterans, and https://edgewoodtestvets.org/ is their website for this lawsuit. I think we need a neutral source of information for these figures, particularly since this is conflating MKUltra with the Edgewood Arsenal human experiments (e.g. although Rochelle said he believed he was given hallucinogenic drugs, all other documentation about his complaints appear to discuss chemical and biological weapons testing rather than mind-control testing). -Location (talk) 20:17, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
References
{{cite web}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)