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Here we go again! JHK has decided for everyone else that written documentation from the courtiers of the King is not acceptable as historical fact.
Another important point is when the courtiers wrote these things: a diary or account-book kept at the time is much more likely to be accurate than a memoir written years later, because memory is a tricky thing. Vicki Rosenzweig
I have watched with interest and note that from looking at numerous Wiki articles, virtually none have references or identify sorces except for ones pasted from the 1911 encyclopedia. Suddenly, you are asking DW to do something new. Perhaps I'm mistaken and someone can direct me to articles by JHK that are referenced and attributed..... Elliot
articles by JHK don't make statements that are not NPOV, normally speaking. I've asked for attribution for articles that are written with an inappropriate amount of purple prose -- in some cases that contradicts what sounds correct. JHK
contradicts what sounds correct Since when is what souns to JHK the facts. Unfortunately on the Internet anyone can take the identity of someone else or create a phony biography. A quick response and the ability to cut and paste does not validate the imposition of someone's view. It seems many regulars on this site have been intimidated and are allowing this to continue. ...Elliot
In the paragraph talking about the family tragedy it says that Louis XIV died a week later than his wife of smallpox, the same disease she had. Then in the first sentence in the next paragraph it says that he was dieing of gangrene. Which one is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.110.171.4 (talk) 03:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps some mention is warrented that he is a main character in the 2006 anime Le_Chevalier_D'Eon? MaKamitt 09:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Did Louis XV have a naval minister at the time of this battle or alternatively what were the name(s) of the key admirals involved? Was there a minister/admiral with a name like Maximillion? If so to really push it what was his wife's first name?
The battle was apparently in the Bay of Biscay is there a port with a name like Amiens (I know that's inland at the site of the Somme battles of WW1)?
Please reply to alan.millett@bigpond.com originally Jan 2004, editted Feb 2004
A list of Louis XV's ministers would be more useful than hearing about Mme du Barry's career as a prostitute... Wetman 18:21, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Why did someone change the picture? What was wrong with the old one? I happened to like the old one...
This article is just a pile of gossip, cliché, and prejudice. It doesn't honor Wikipedia. I have started to turn it into a more decent article, writing an introduction, and first two chapters. Other chapters remain to be written and rubbish to be deleted. Hardouin 01:05, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The remaining old text at the tail end of the article isn't up to the standard set by your new edits. --Wetman 11:29, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The Habsburgs did not understand that this was due to interbreeding! I am so tired of modern people seeing history through modern glasses. Every sick or dead child was explained by sins. It was God's power and his will made people sick, well, poor, wealthy or dumb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Montespan (talk • contribs) 12:23, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Is the family name of Louis XV caled Quinze Scope_Creep 21:27 20th September 2005 (GMT)
No. "Quinze" means "Fifteen" in French. john k 20:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I can't believe no one has changed the description of the Pompadour as "frigid". The term is extremely offensive and misogynist, to say the least.
How is it misogynist? Yellowgirl44x44 (talk) 02:29, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
I have tried to improve the style and content of the recent edits about the Régence. I have also deleted some lenghty passages that are not really relevant to Louis XV. These deleted paragraphs, on the other hand, could be added to the article about the Régence and to the article about Philippe II d'Orléans. Hardouin 01:06, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
There is not scientific evidence / concensus that supports the idea that mental stress causes miscarriages. In any case it is impossible to prove that there were not other physical factors some 200+ years ago. That line should be changed / modified to read, "many believed that her miscarriage was related to hearing the news of what happened to her family"
The parts about Damiens are not very academic either. J.Collins and Dale Van Kley (French History Academics) both argue that Damiens attempted assination was related to Jasenist - Parlement refusal of sacraments, anit-clerical and growing public opinion situations. The 'speculations' on what may have motivated him in this article are a little far fetched and there is documentation from his trial found in Van Kley in which Damiens says he was motivated to force the king to act justly, expell the Jesuits and ensure that good Catholics (Jansenists) receive the sacraments.
I also found the term frigid unacademic, unecessary and without support. There were many pamphlets that implied she was the opposite of frigid but these are not reliable either. The term should just be removed because it is offensive and because it is inconsistent and not verifiable.
i'm removing a few info at the conclusion section which is redeundant.
Can someone who is far better at editing than me please restore the pastel picture of Louis XV that is in the pastel article
There is too much information in this article that has nothing to do with the King himself.
Best Wikipedia article
I think this article deserves ten stars. This user has done a terrific job giving the details on this man's life. I got most of the info on him by reading this document! HERE ARE THE TEN STARS; **********
What was Louis XV known as before the deaths of his father and brother? john k 00:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to see a picture of the Marble Court of Trianon for the Damiens section.
I would also like to see the same pastel portrait that is in the Pastel article Cloud Stryfe 21:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
There has been a dispute about the appropriate English translation of the French phrase "Après moi, le déluge". Michaelsanders contends that "Flood is the conventional English translation of that phrase (more intelligible)". Here are the statistics from Google:
And here are the statistics from Google Books:
Based on Google and Google Books, it would seem that deluge is far more frequently used. Noel S McFerran 22:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made some edits, mainly stylistic, to try to polish up the tone of the article. I hope they have improved it.
My substantive edits were primarily to change the emphasis of the discussion of Louis' 1744 illness. Based on the sources I've seen, it appears that the refusing of absolution was done in order to get the King to renounce his mistress. The publication of his renunciation seems to have been done without his consent.
I think some work is still needed on the article. For example, the source I read (Julian Swann's chapter "Politics: Louis XV" in William Doyle, ed., Old Regime France 1648-1788, Oxford Univ. Press, 2001), indicates that the financial reforms of the 1740's were opposed principally by the clergy, and that the opposition wasn't irresistible -- i.e., Louis unnecessarily caved. It also indicated that the Parlement's remonstrances came genuinely in response to the persecution of Jansenists not as a pretext for opposition directed at the financial reforms.
Another concern is that the article virtually ends in 1757. More is needed on the last 17 years of Louis' reign.
Aldrichio 23:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
The article is full of heavily biased unsourced statements in the spirit of revisionism:
If these statements accurately reflect the modern scholarly consensus (which needs to be proved), they should be spun off into a separate section which will list the conflicting views of different historians on Louis's activities. The prospective section should be well referenced. Otherwise I urge the casual statements to be removed. --Ghirla-трёп- 15:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Wholeheartedly agree with the above. There is nothing in this article that makes me think Louis XV was anything but incompetent, given that most of the beneficial effects from his reign come from Cardinal Fleury and his amazing reliance on him, rather than from the king himself. When left to his own devices he was nothing greater than decidedly mediocre. The article consistently highlights the main problem, his lack of a strong will. The offhand comments thrown in give the entire article a contradictory tone that is rather confusing. On one hand, all the things about Louis XV that made him nothing more than average are plain for all to see in this article and would be if not for the aforementioned comments. 204.95.62.232 18:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that general consensus is that Louis XV was naturally intelligent and might have made a good ruler, but that his character was ruined by his upbringing, leaving him an incompetent and ultimately disastrous ruler. So, anyway, there was no problem with his natural talents. The problem was that he had no particular patience for the task of government. The general agreement, I think, is that he was certainly a lot smarter than his grandson. Anyway, I agree this stuff should be referenced and incorporated into the text in a smooth manner. john k (talk) 07:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I am also annoyed at the bias present in this article. This is not the place for opinions or discussions of how "intelligent" or "indecisive" Louis XIV was. Whether the opinions are accurate or not is irrelevant, they shouldn't be there.129.67.63.251 (talk) 22:09, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I do not know much about French history, but it certain appears that someone has a particular perspective that they wanted to share. It may not be wrong, but it should certainly be cited and possibly--as the above writer stated--spun off into a separate section. I read this article for information, but I felt I could not trust the content. I also felt confused, like the writer above. G
Given what seems like original research (or the absence of citations if it is not original research), the tag is justified. I would be happy to change this myself, but my lack of knowledge on the subject makes me hesitant to do so. I hope others will be able to make this better. Kearnsdm (talk) 00:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
This is an extremely poorly referenced article. Just one example of the decidedly un-encyclopedic content of this article is the psychoanalysis attributing Louis' loss of his mother at an early age as driving him to find comfort in the arms of women. It is incredible that someone would put this purely opinionated drivel into this article. Even if some reputable source analyzed the king in this manner, it needs to be presented as an opinion and not as fact (as it is now). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.113.20 (talk) 11:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I noticed many sentences in this article that are worded in a way that provides incorrect information. One example:
This sentence implies that Louis XV was the grandson of Louis, duc de Bourgogne and Marie-Adelaide, when he was actually their son. Tad Lincoln (talk) 21:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
==The Gaucher son of a member of Anjou.== I was told that my family history included a woman of the family Anjou who feel in love with a commener. Also my family was descended from Louis XV. Afterwards she gave birth and the son was soon called Gaucher because he wrote with his left hand. I am trying to reserch more into this family history of mine and would love some help, please and thank you. 208.92.136.109 (talk) 01:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
It seems the picture of Louis XV as a child is wrong. It seems the picture of a girl. Am I mistaking something? Who did this picture, and when? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.208.177.12 (talk) 13:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
The section describing Louis XV's illegitimate children is a bit confusing and perhaps a bad translation. It might need to be clarified. --BRCScriptor (talk) 09:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
This article violates Neutral Point of View throughout. For example, the first section has claims of "debauchery," "ill-advised financial policies," the portrayal of Louis XV as "one of the most unpopular kings of France" who "damaged the power of France," and "weakened the treasury," and so on. These are all pejoratives which have no place here. Blaming Louis XV for the French Revolution, which occurred fifteen years after his death, is laughable - yet it is placed up front. The article repeatedly talks about his mistresses, which may be true and should be mentioned, but not over and over with detailed listing of his alleged illegitimate children, without citation. The section of "Image and public opinion" is filled with insults: Louis was "unequal to the high expectations of his subjects," the people "withdrew their respect," and "reviled the sycophant king" and "celebrated his demise." He may have been, as the article claims, a "notorious womanizer," but the phrase itself should be excluded based on Wikipedia's own policy. Olivier Bernier's book, Louis the Beloved points out that much of what we know of Louis XV is based on non-existent letters and dubious memoirs published decades later, to discredit the monarchy after the Revolution. This article seems to swallow any claim and declare it fact. In previous entries of this talk section, others have cited this repeated bias, yet it remains. Will someone at Wikipedia kindly enforce the rules? Most of this article is crap.Princetoniac (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I do not "take issue with the scholarly literature," as Rjensen claims. I take issue with the article's bias, as others have done (above) for the last 7 years. The article seems to be written with an agenda, to taint the reader's opinion before any facts are given. For example, the third paragraph of section one is a quote from a website which itself has no sources. It is all opinion. The first citation from Colin Jones is a bibliography of other sources, but no claims in the Wikipedia article can be found there. If the editors want to use Colin Jones' book, they have to cite page numbers which back up the statements, which they do not do. Rjensen says the text is a summary of section 8, so the opinions should be in that section, not at the beginning of the article. These opinions - by Wikipedia's own policy - should be marked as opinions of a particular author. Furthermore, DITWIN GRIM states that "wikipedia gives a quite accurate description of Louis XV's reign." This is just another opinion. Please describe accurate. Define Louis' "unpopularity." How can this be measured? It Cannot be measured. The article should be cut to reflect FACTS, not opinions. Princetoniac (talk) 21:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
After stating some objections in NPOV Dispute above, I have added some reference to Bernier's arguments in favor of Louis without removing any citations with a critical view. I also took out material which was unsourced in which "citation needed" was added three years ago; three years was plenty of time to add citations, which did not happen. I also trimmed some unsourced material unrelated to Louis himself, and some editorial comments (mostly adverbs) without removing the facts critical of Louis. For example, the long description and condemnation of Damiens' execution seemed irrelevant. I took out the long list of alleged illegitimate children, which had no sources, while keeping the one reference with a source and keeping the notation that other illegitimate children may have existed. I did not remove a single source from the article. In this way I submit the article as a whole has been improved without substantially removing criticism of the subject.Princetoniac (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Three days later the editing has remained, so I have removed the NPOV tagPrincetoniac (talk) 21:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I have also added reference to Guy Chassinanad-Nogaret's book on the Eighteenth Century to support Bernier's argument.Princetoniac (talk) 17:20, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
The content on his mistresses and private life still has the breathless tone of a popular fan magazine and lacks sources. I've tried to tone it down and stick to facts, but it needs more work. It was such a common practice that there were official mistresses, so comments about adulterous behavior do not really belong here. Royalty married for property and dynasties, not for love. Men, at least, often found that with mistresses.Parkwells (talk) 15:57, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
The sentence "Merrick writes that popular faith in the monarchy was shaken by the scandals of Louis’s private life and by the end of his life he had become despised." had a reference with the name "Merrick", but it's not linked to any reference currently in the article, and it's not clear which of Merrick's books it is sourced from. I left a comment in the page at that point. --Slashme (talk) 14:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
The author of an encyclopedia article should be sufficiently expert on the subject that he or she can deliver authoritative judgments of his or her own, not just say report what some other author has claimed. The reader has no idea with what authority, if any, the cited writer may have. Any sentence of the form "Harris says xyz" raises the question in the reader's mind, who is Harris and why should we believe what he says? This is a common problem in Wikipedia articles, and it marks an article as amateurish. A reader of an encyclopedia article should be presumed to know little or nothing of the literature on the subject, and the identity or standing of various contributors to it. If the author of the article can't make the statement that xyz on the authority of his own knowledge, or at least his own critical scholarship, it should not be made. If it is an essential and perhaps controversial issue, then the author needs to identify the authorities that are cited. "Harris, the foremost authority on the 18th c. French navy, says xyz'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.60.17.48 (talk) 16:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The map which claims that the English acquired Newfoundland from the French, is erroneous and misleading. The English had a colony in Newfoundland for 500 years. At one period, the French also had a colony on a different part of the island, which they relinquished after one of the wars.Lathamibird (talk) 13:15, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
> Norman Davies characterized Louis XV's reign as "one of debilitating stagnation," characterized by lost wars, endless clashes between the Court and Parliament, and religious feuds.
Parliament? Is this even talking about the right country? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:7F04:A000:4574:2EA8:B5A1:E20F (talk) 02:22, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
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Louis XV's official title was "by the Grace of God King of France and Navarre". No more and no less. It can be seen on all his coins. Now, obviously, we do not include the phrase "by the Grace of God" in the infobox or the succession box, nor do we use it to describe him in the lead sentence. Or any sentence in any article. So we are not actually using his official title in the infobox. We cut it down to "King of France and Navarre", rather arbitrarily. Why keep Navarre if we discarded the God part? He ruled no such kingdom.
For comparison, Henry VIII of England was "by the Grace of God King of England, France and Ireland". We call him simply King of England and Ireland. No France, despite Calais. Frederick IX of Denmark was "by the Grace of God, King of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg". We call him simply King of Denmark. No Goths, no Wends, and definitely no German territories. The official title should always be clearly designated as such if it did not correspond to reality. In reality Louis XV was not King of Navarre. He ruled a tiny part of the former kingdom which had been annexed to France a century earlier. He was King of Navarre as much as Henry VIII was King of France. So why insist on calling him, in every instance, "King of France and Navarre"? Surtsicna (talk) 22:04, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Tricky stuff. The Kingdom of Navarre was merged into the Kingdom of France in 1620. However, after that date the French monarchs continued to use the Navarre title until 1791 & again 1814 to 1830. GoodDay (talk) 00:57, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
How can you have an article about Lous XVI that makes no mention of his patronage of the arts and science? That makes no mention of the buildings that he built, or the music that his family commissioned? This is not just a political biography. You can't entirely ignore an important part of his legacy. SiefkinDR (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
The Vingtième tax was one twentieth, not twenty per cent... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.36.95.182 (talk) 11:52, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
this is amazing nice job — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.165.131.187 (talk) 13:07, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
At the end of the first paragraph: "Cardinal Fleury was his chief minister from 1726 until the Cardinal's death in 1743, at which time the young king took sole control of the kingdom."
Louis XV was a few days short of his 33rd birthday when the Cardinal died. Calling him "the young king" has no reasonable foundation in fact in this context, has no encyclopaedic value and sounds extremely subjective. So, I propose removing the word "young". If anyone objects, please respond here. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 11:24, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
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change "fundaments" (in Discours sur les origins et les fundaments de l'inégalité) to fondaments, see e.g. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discours_sur_l'origine_et_les_fondements_de_l'inégalité_parmi_les_hommes Eridanus (talk) 11:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Louis XIV of France which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:30, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
i didn't know that the Anjou (or spanish) line was extinct upon the death of Louis XV... according to the laws of successions, the clauses of treaty of Utrecht privating that line of ther place in the line were null and void, as was the treaty of Troyes of 1420, see the thesis of Paul Watrin "La Tradition monarchique d'après l'ancien droit public français" for more details. 2A01:CB0C:65C:8900:E850:9101:68D0:B8F8 (talk) 12:01, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
The article claims that Austria gained the Austrian Netherlands and Naples through marriage. It in no way did and that is an entirely incorrect statement. Austria gained those lands through the Treaty of Utrecht which was signed at the conclusion and as a result of the War of the Spanish Succession. Obviously, the original writer of that sentence did not know let alone understand the period and just assumed that one quote about the Hapsburgs marrying well applied to all Hapsburg expansionism, which ignores the fact that the Hapsburgs were a major military power that was involved in countless wars and made many conquests. - Leo
This could improve the article. Note the detail of the hand with the knife being burnt first.
From “A Manual of American Ideas” (1873)
Strange and terrible scenes, witnessed from the windows of the Hotel de Ville, have been enacted on the Place d& Greve (now Place da Hotel de Yi!le) in days not yery far removed from ours. One of these occurred on Monday, March 28, 1757. AU the windows that commai^ded a view of the square were filled with noble ladies and gentlemen, splendidly attired. It was a dazzling blaze of gold- embroidered garments, of glittering orders, of floating plumes, and priceless gems. The assemblage was radiant and gay, chatting and laughing; and yet, from time to time, eager looks were bent upon a space in the centre of the square, surrounded by palisades, and guarded by horse and foot. Was there to be a tournament ? What was the promised entertainment, which had attracted so many gallant gentlemen and so many beautiful and high-born ladies ? A sort of thrill running through the assembled thousands, a sudden silence, preceded the appearance on the square of a pale, slender man, who advanced, surrounded by guards and officers ol justice. The lugu- brious procession halted.
The prisoner, for such he was, was stripped, bound, Ironed, and laid upon the scaffold in the centre of the palisades. Then followed the most horrible scehe that the imagination can conceive. The right hand of the sufferer, which held a knife, was burned. He uttered a terrible cry as the member crackled in the blaze, and was then Silent and looked at the charred stump with mournful attention. Then the executioner tore out pieces of flesh from his arms and legs, and poured into the flesh tf mixture of melted lead, boiling oil, hot pitch, wax and sulphur; at which, says the official report, " the aforesaid criminal cried out at several intervals, ' My God! Strength 1 Strength!' * O Lord,^aay God, have pity on me!* * O Lord, my God, how I suffer!* * Lord, my God, give me fortitude!* '* As during the burning of his hand, he uttered cries at the infliction of each fresh torture, then became calm and silent, and patiently contemplated his wounds, Four young and vigorous horses were then harnessed to his limbs; but though they pulled with all their strength, and though the extensipn of the members was prodigious, they did not succeed in qnartering the sufferer tintil the snrgeon'd knife had scored the joints. The victim, lived till the last limb was torn from his body, and then only gave^up the ghost. His mangled remains were thrown upon a pile of wood and bnmed to ashes. The punishment had lasted hours, and night closed upon the horrible scene. The name of the victim, whose tortures were contemplated with satisfaction by the most refined ladies of the kingdom, was Bobert Francis Damiens, and his crime that of stabbing Louis XV with a knife. 2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:2956:8673:454C:742E (talk) 21:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
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Please change the author details for the book by J. H. Shennan to include the ( Gownsball (talk) 12:12, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
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Please add an author link to page on J. H. Shennan. Gownsball (talk) 12:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
Do you think we should make the images of Louis XV, Louis XVI, Louis XVIII, and Charles X them in normal attire instead there coronation robes? Just a question--Orson1234 (talk) 06:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Orson1234
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I request to edit louis the 15th spouse(s). One of the missing spouses of the king is Marie Antoinette. 107.145.69.129 (talk) 01:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
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Please add the following template to the bottom of the article:
67.173.23.66 (talk) 18:06, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
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The sub-section "Foreign relations - New alliances; the War of the Polish Succession" quotes the King of Prussia as declaring "Since the Treaty of Vienna France is the arbiter of Europe", but it does not explain what the Treaty of Vienna actually is. The sentence starting the preceding paragraph: "To bring the war to an end, Fleury and Charles VI negotiated an ingenious diplomatic solution" should be extended to read "... solution, formalised in the [Treaty of Vienna (1738)|Treaty of Vienna]". 194.193.172.207 (talk) 17:51, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
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In the section heading Unigenitus, Jansenism and religious conflict, "Unigenitus" is italicised. In the first sentence of the section it is not, and again in a later sentence. Please change whichever is incorrect. 2001:BB6:4734:5658:8D88:3FA3:FB0C:EA92 (talk) 14:25, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
tc
19:45, 20 January 2023 (UTC)There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Charles the Bald which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
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The references to the partition of Poland are somewhat confused. The partition in 1772 was the first partition. In it, parts of Poland were taken by Russia, Prussia AND Austria, but Poland was not entirely divided between them. 92.30.146.64 (talk) 23:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
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Towards the end of the first paragraph of the section on Choiseul, change his grandson, the future Louis XIV to Marie Antoinette to the king's grandson, the future Louis XIV, to Marie Antoinette 78.149.130.152 (talk) 14:35, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
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Near the end of the section on Commerce, agriculture, ..., change "it be done, let it pass" to " let it be done, let it pass" 148.252.128.141 (talk) 14:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
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