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Which of the following options should be followed for whether to list psychometrics in the List of topics characterized as pseudoscience?
1. Include psychometrics in the list.
2. Include psychometrics in the list, but with a notation that it is categorized as pseudoscience by a minority of scholars.
3. Exclude psychometrics from the list.
Robert McClenon (talk) 23:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Please state your view as Option 1, Option 2, or Option 3 in the Survey. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:44, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The issue of whether to include psychometrics in this list was previously discussed on this talk page, and was then the subject of moderated discussion at the dispute resolution noticeboard. The conclusion of the discussion was that a Request for Comments (this RFC) be used to establish consensus. As the volunteer moderator, I will not be offering an opinion, but will let the Wikipedia community provide a collective opinion. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, but censorship of content with independent reliable sources is not allowed, especially content with abundant independent reliable sources. Also, I don't know where option #2 came from or how one would support such a claim. It looks like the passage now reads pretty much how Myrvin and Grayfell had it which makes enough sense and is good enough for me.--TDJankins (talk) 00:12, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
I added the following per the APA report in order to counterbalance the section: "Many of those within the field of psychology believe that psychometrics is a legitimate study that yields worthwhile information."--TDJankins (talk) 09:01, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Maunus. I think option 3 is best but 2 is also acceptable. Psychometrics isn't a pseudoscience, in my opinion. Notwithstanding the criteria in the article, a pseudoscience must include a concept that is entirely at odds with objective science. Pseudosciences all require such a non-scientific leap, something which sets the scientific method aside and makes a claim like "pyramid-shaped objects affect pathogens" or "positions of stars influence human lives."
Psychometrics makes no such reference to the supernatural. When it makes conclusions that don't logically follow from the observations, or when it claims that it is more effective than it actually is, it qualifies as junk science or bad science. A battery of tests can't determine a person's future behavior or their suitability for a particular job. But -- and this is why I think it is not a pseudoscience -- the results are better than random chance. That's not the case if you use astrology or phrenology to screen job applicants.
The pseudoscience article should provide readers with information on all things that are sometimes held up as scientific but which are not. That's because it's better known and better understood than bad science. So I wouldn't be opposed to including psychometrics in the article, provided that it's clear that it's in a different category than, say, dowsing or free energy. Roches (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not aware of any non-psychologists or non-psychometricians (those who do not practice psychometrics) who undertook a thorough investigation of psychometrics and were able to conclude that it's a legitimate science. I do however know there have been several entire books dedicated to why it's a pseudoscience; we can only say that for a small handful of the other items on this page.--TDJankins (talk) 07:12, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Option 3 Pseudoscience does not apply to psychometrics as a whole, although it may apply to certain tests and the interpretation of such tests. Psychometrics is just too broad, if it also includes assessment of reading, writing, and mathematical skills, as stated in the article. In the field of neuroscience, there are "psychometric" assays for assessing psychological conditions such as depression, anxiety, adaptability, etc in animals. To say that ALL measurements of mental/psychological phenomena are pseudoscience would be overreaching. -Iamozy (talk) 00:22, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Number 3 - exclude psychometrics from this list -- (1) I'd suggest general resistance to adding more to a long thing, as it seems awfully long and why would one more be better, plus pseudoscience I think is a vague epitet so one often would not be able to tell anything definitive except whether others say it for various reasons (hence different meanings?). and then (2) by googling I see generally a LOW percent of google books 'psychometrics' also have 'pseudoscience', but in common web most uses are in common. So seems like maybe technical experts with substantive material usually say psychometrics is NOT pseudoscience, but the masses frequently gripe using the word ... which is consistent with it being a vague slur or something complaints turn to hurt the topic ... feels like they didn't like the result of the metric more than an intellectual consideration. Markbassett (talk) 02:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Psychometrics is a multifaceted field. One one end, it is concerned with the statistical foundations of measurement in psychology; theories like item response theory, structural equation modeling and the ordinal analysis of ranked data, such as Likert scale data, are as mathematically solid as anything in statistics. I have never seen a claim of pseudoscience for these statistical methods. In applied psychometrics, there are careful scientists who simply want to measure psychological behavior as well as possible. But there are also charlatans who claim their psychometric tests are the one true way to predict, e.g., educational success; they often have no scientific backing for these claims, which lead careful scientists to reject their claims as pseudoscience. Thus while there are particular people and products in the field deserving of the label pseudoscience, it is wrong to paint the whole field with this brush. --Mark viking (talk) 19:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Option 2 Psychometrics does have a range of detractors, as presented elsewhere here and in the Psychometrics article. If some WP:RSes say that X scholar or Y scholar believe that it's a pseudoscience, then we should notate that and include it in this list. Full stop.--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 20:17, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Since this seems to have devolved into hearsay, here are the WP:RSes I could find in a ten minute google search saying that X scholar or Y scholar or Z part of the scientific community believe that Psychometrics is a pseudoscience:
As a result, I think Psychometrics deserves inclusion in this article. Since it's very contentious, we should obviously append the entry with all the facts about Psychometry is taught everywhere, etc etc, in the form of WP:RSes sourced material. Obviously no OR.--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 20:24, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
References
Under racial theories in social sciences, what do you guys think of adding a subheading on Eugenics? Or at least a shout out in the racial differences subheading. I think we should acknowledge the former scientific thought, now dismissed as pseudoscience, which advocated for its use.--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 17:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
The best sources I have found so far -- scholarly treatments of the subject -- are explicitly against classifying eugenics as pseudoscience. We should be careful not to rush into labeling something pseudoscience because we consider it to be unethical or abhorrent. Re the above comment that eugenics "works", Yao Ming is arguably a product of eugenics. Manul ~ talk 17:32, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
My personal thought is that you're going to have a lot of individuals (both in reliable sources and outside of them) commenting that the term 'eugenics' is extremely broad and that many aspects of it are non-controversial and scientific. Take, for example, efforts made to provide pregnant women with the proper micro-nutrients in order to improve the fitness of the child after he or she is born. As well, look at measures made to discourage cigarette smoking around young children. And then you have cases such as Yao Ming's, as pointed out above, which are arguably unethical but aren't scientific (he IS all around an excellent athlete). CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 04:55, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Per the Arbitration Committee Decisions on Pseudoscience, psychoanalysis is considered a questionable science and should not be listed as a pseudoscience. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 20:01, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
There is no contradiction, because these are two different things. Arbcom is not referring to what RS do. Arbcom is referring to what we should NOT do in Wikipedia's voice. We should not go around writing that it's an example of pseudoscience, or include it in Category:Pseudoscience. We don't do any of that.
Arbcom doesn't say anything about it's inclusion in this list, nor does it say anything against documenting that RS have characterized it as such, and that's all this list does. Inclusion in the Pseudoscience article as an example of pseudoscience would be a different matter entirely, and wrong according to the Arbcom decision.
The Arbcom decision refers to how Wikipedia, in its voice, should NOT characterize it, and we do NOT characterize it as pseudoscience. We only document that it has been characterized as such by RS. It's in a grey zone and we don't take a position on that. Some think it is, and some think it isn't. For the purposes of this list, we don't really care. We, as Wikipedia editors, do not characterize it as pseudoscience in this list, and that's what the Arbcom decision forbids us from doing. We follow that advice. -- BullRangifer (talk) 06:16, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
[repost reminder] Since there are numerous unrelated topics in this article, I think it is helpful to append the "high level" section to the end of section names on the talk page in (parens). If there is a better way to do it, please provide suggestions or throw rocks at me. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 17:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
From the article: "Scientific racism – claim that scientific evidence shows the inferiority or superiority of certain races."
First, this is a narrower definition than what it says in the article "Scientific racism". "Scientific racism is the use of scientific techniques and hypotheses to support or justify the belief in racism, racial inferiority, or racial superiority, or alternatively the practice of classifying individuals of different phenotypes into discrete races."
Second, there have been studies showing differences in intelligence between human races. What makes those studies pseudoscience? NumericalWarfare (talk) 00:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fringe science organizations — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:39, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Why we need a separate section for Architecture? When it is included under others before, as "Feng Shui". This is what I have fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.203.231.72 (talk) 06:05, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
References
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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 20:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm not going to check every single one, but considering the first one I checked is a false citation, I think this needs to be looked into. I have less than 10 edits to wikipedia, so I can't change it. Citation #16:, about the moon landing hoax conspiracy theory, is not related to "Lunar effect – the belief that the full Moon influences human behavior." I recommend instead finding a citation that talks about how police officers patrol more on a full moon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Epigeios (talk • contribs) 07:31, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
I am neutral on this subject, neutral towards the author, and have only read 1 of his books--this one. I propose that this section is removed on the grounds of:
I find this little part of the Pseudoscience Topics to be quite unfair, and more appropriate for the category of deliberate mis-information. This dilutes the quality of this article. Source 9 of "The Skeptics Diary" made me look and dig into this further. I was very curious about it, and ultimately inspired me to do something about this. I am still unable to find a peer-review of Sitchin's work authored by someone credible in the field. I have learned that there are very few scholars in this field anyways. To my amazement, I'm having a very hard time finding a source other than some guy's popular internet website quoting other people's popular internet websites or biased articles lacking proper sources. There's nothing scientific at all about the link to "The Skeptics Diary", nor the sources, and I believe it is an embarrassment to the scientific community that wishes to keep others safe from disinformation.
Erich von Däniken is out to promote his books, as his methods and communication are appropriately categorized under pseudoscience. If we're going to list Sitchin here, we may as well list some other author of a book concerning the subject of Greek gods and goddesses, or something obvious like the Bible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aerozeplyn (talk • contribs) 06:05, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
I have before challenged the validity of calling the knowledge of differences between races pseudoscience. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_topics_characterized_as_pseudoscience&oldid=679408501 I think a few things has been added since then but the description is still there so I will remove just that part now as it is not pseudoscience. I'm referring to "claim that scientific evidence shows the inferiority or superiority of certain races". — Preceding unsigned comment added by NumericalWarfare (talk • contribs) 15:58, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
The author of the article "List of topics characterized as pseudoscience" has put forward an immense amount of data from secondary evidence. Lots of factual errors are present in the page. It should be left to the discretion of the reader to decide how much of the information is to be accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tej Sanyal (talk • contribs) 04:28, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
{{u|BullRangifer}} {Talk}
08:01, 3 November 2015 (UTC)According to the most scientists Gender Studies are a pseudoscience!--141.19.228.15 (talk) 18:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 13:39, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
I recommend that sun gazing be added to the list of obvious pseudosciences. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sungazing DrMattB (talk) 03:00, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
It's getting more widespread, and I recently found out that one of my acquaintances practices it. And she told me of a number of other people she knows who practice it. DrMattB (talk) 15:06, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Recommend Orgone to be added to the Energy section.86.147.131.172 (talk) 07:28, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
has an editor asserting that Deprogramming per se is a pseudoscience. The APA source given refers to "brainwashing" and does not refer to "deprogramming" per quote used. Collect (talk) 16:35, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
The first source mentions neither term. You'll have to quote from the second as I'm unable to search the google books version. From the discussion above, this appears to be OR to present a POV that's either undue if simply not in the sources at all. --Ronz (talk) 16:36, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
(od) This particular "list article" requires that sources specifically characterize something as "pseudoscience" and does not allow us to say "the topic is against science in my opinion therefore it is 'pseudoscience' for purposes of this specific list on Wikipedia" or "I know it is discredited, therefore I can label it 'pseudoscience' for the purposes of this list." Collect (talk) 23:06, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
The brainwashing entry should probably be written from a more straightforward source, and there are such sources to do so. If that is the case for deprogramming as well, please suggest some other sources. --Ronz (talk) 00:18, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
If it is not permissible to list neoclassical economics here as a 'pseudoscience' (despite references I provided to this effect), then neither should Marxism be there. The latter clearly falls under "4. Alternative theoretical formulations: Alternative theoretical formulations which have a following within the scientific community are not pseudoscience, but part of the scientific process."
It is also not a "consensus of the community" that it is a pseudoscience (or indeed a separate science at all), since its status varies wildly from one social scientific discipline to another. Moreover, the two references given are 1) Karl Popper, whose views are not consensus in any social science today, and 2) an obscure right-wing sociologist whose influence is minimal. I object to the presentation as it stands, which is not NPOV. McCaine (talk) 01:35, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. This seems like a blatant violation of NPOV. 85.81.99.30 (talk) 11:47, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
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This article has no place in a real modern philosophy. Sure some of the things listed have been disproved. The rest are mere speculation with no real science undertaken to determine what the truth of these matters is. It is disgusting that this kind of drivel is in Wikipedia, but I guess professional skeptics are at it again trying to get their radical opinions published. These are the same kinds of people who try to say they can disprove God. Good GRIEF. 206.172.0.204 (talk) 17:11, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Feng Shui is listed twice. The first mention is short, while the second one is detailed. I propose that the following text is added to the first mention: "(See below for more information.)" Or something like that. 90.154.70.0 (talk) 23:21, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
While astrology is quite popular and well known in most parts of the world predicting the future of the subject and has been included in the "List of topics characterized as pseudo-science ), palmistry is another method of predicting the future of a curious person and palmistry has been and is still quite popular in India.
Besides palmistry , we have in India another method of prediction of future called parrot astrology or fortune telling <information sourced under -Parrot astrology from [2]</ref></ref></ref></ref> wikipedia> , but I observed that Palmistry is not been included in the above-mentioned list.
In addition to parrot astrology, fortune telling by women of Erukula tribe (called "Erukula Chepputa" in Telugu) is also popular in Andhra Pradesh. The Erukulas are a tribal people . they are spread over the States of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. The women from a sub tribe of "Parikamuggula Yerukula " .<Information sourced from Yerukula.com>. This kind of fortune telling was quite popular ,but they are not as conspicuous as they used to be. Fortune telling by Erukula women is not included in the above-mentioned list.
117.213.145.240 (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[3]
I am wondering why only Maharishi Ayurveda is listed in this article as opposed to Ayurveda medicine in general. The Wikipedia article for Ayurveda already states that it is widely considered pseudoscientific.Sega31098 (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Please add Ley line, as that page already links to this one. Oskar Liljeblad (talk) 12:36, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Just a tiny fix, the reference for Creationist cosmologies is currently "Technical Analysis in Financial Markets" - obviously a mistake. This reference is still relevant to the Finance section. I'd suggest adding the same tag as for the previous entry, "Creation science", which says "not in citation given" linking to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability - alternatively, a relevant citation could be found. I hope this is a useful suggestion. Thanks :) Refractions (talk) 05:41, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Recently, I noticed posts from some friends on Facebook concerning Himalayan Salt Lamps (and Salt Lamps in general), which sounded like 100% bunk, thus pushed me to cleanup the Himalayan salt article. This subject sounds like a topic for this pseudoscience article, though I wasn't sure if it's a new entry or related to an existing entry. If someone would like to debunk this topic, please go for it. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 05:28, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:480:10:76:0:0:0:2135 (talk) 20:18, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Are transhumanism and mind uploading generally considered to be pseudoscience? If so, perhaps they should be added to this list? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 22:29, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Almost all of the topics listed here have a wiki page where evidence for that topic being pseudoscience is discussed and references are given in support of that. It seems a waste of time and effort to relist those same references here. IT seems to me that all that is needed is a quick description of the topic following the link to the page. If the wiki page says it is pseudoscience, then it gets listed here. Any arguments over if it is pseudoscience is waged on that page and not here. This article is huge because it has so many unnecessary references that are basically duplicates of what is found on the wiki pages. I propose that if a topic already has a wikipage that all references be removed here. That would also make this page easier to handle and edit. --OtisDixon (talk) 05:01, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Reverted it back to the non-referenced version per WP:BRD, this cleanup has been noted in talk and ongoing for quite a while now without objection. List does meet WP:V, references are at the parent articles. Per: WP:LISTVERIFY "obviously appropriate material.... will not be supported by any type of reference". This list has a very narrow WP:LISTCRITERIA:
Any member of this list must be "obviously appropriate" for this list due to the nature of the established list criteria. Any that are not "obviously appropriate" should be removed from this list. Asking for reference at this list encourages WP:CONTENTFORK, making a case here that is not made in the parent article. The experts on whether these topics are in some form "pseudoscience" are the editors who work on the parent articles. Entries here should be short and sweet. Extensive coverage, addition of further wording/references, and disputes in relation to whether these are, in some form, a pseudoscience should be carried out at the parent articles, not here. Extensive wording with multiple citations and back to back WP:REFBLOAT is argumentative, this is not the article for an argument.... it should (again) be taken to the parent article. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
does the article discuss whether its a pseudoscience. I'd like a stronger criteria than this. "Discussion" isn't enough. Characterized as pseudoscience, meeting WP:FRINGE, is what we're after.
This edit request to List of topics characterized as pseudoscience has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Energy topic Hydrino from:
Hydrinos – are a supposed state of the hydrogen atom that, according to proponent Randell Mills of Brilliant Light Power, Inc., are of lower energy than ground state and thus a source of free energy.
Free energy – particular class of perpetual motion which purports to create energy (violating the first law of thermodynamics) or extract useful work from equilibrium systems (violating the second law of thermodynamics). This is in contrast to proposals made most notably by Harold Puthoff a real energy which in quantum mechanics is thought not to be available to do work.
Water-fueled cars – an instance of perpetual motion machines. Such devices are claimed to use water as fuel or produce fuel from water on board with no other energy input.
to:
Hydrinos – are a supposed state of the hydrogen atom that, according to proponent Randell Mills of Brilliant Light Power, Inc., are of lower energy than ground state.
I can find no reference for the claim of "and thus a source of free energy".
The association of the Energy topic "Free energy" as a nested topic under Hydrinos is also something which I cannot find a reference source for. "Free energy" should stand alone as its own Energy topic or be eliminated as it has no referenced relation to the Hydrino topic.
The association of the Energy topic "Water-fueled cars" as a nested topic under Hydrinos is also something which I cannot find a reference source for. "Water-fueled cars" should stand alone as its own Energy topic or be eliminated as it has no referenced relation to the Hydrino topic.
Zaleski59 (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)zaleski59 Zaleski59 (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Aruneek - Thank you for looking at the nesting of topics. Can you defend your position "The statement that hydrinos are a free source of energy is definitely correct." with a reference or some other rationale. It is inconsistent with what precedes it, "Hydrinos – are a supposed state of the hydrogen atom that, according to proponent Randell Mills of Brilliant Light Power, Inc., are of lower energy than ground state". There is no claim of free energy, in fact the opposite is true, the energy is extracted from a ground state hydrogen atom by catalyzing it to a fractional state (reciprocal of an excited state). The energy available from such transitions is finite and quantifiable. Look forward to your response. Zaleski59 (talk) 16:27, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Need to add this theory next to hollow Earth and flat Earth Andrew Mc Andrew (talk) 17:50, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Please format the introduction into paragraphs. I suggest dividing the text before and after the "Criticisms of..." sentence. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalgard (talk • contribs) 22:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
Apologies, i do not know format etc. Suggest topic on medicine. Ancient wisdom on medicines, power of light, sound, cathedrals, waves, love, water, effect on human body, healing. natural molecules, ancient wisdom, treatment of illness with as little as one molecule. India, China, ancient knowledge. Cooling, heating effects. Balance. Nutrition. Hospital foods :). processed. genetics, abnormalities, fact of humans, life, adapt to surrounds. epidemic, of illnesses, from toxic surrounds. non genetic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk) 02:25, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Innate intelligence is not an article and the entry is described as chiropractic medicine. The linked term following it, putative energy, is a pipe to Energy medicine, does not discus chiropractic medicine, and does not explain "Innate intelligence". We mean Energy medicine here? .... leaves me clueless for one. Needs a total rewrite and maybe should be about Energy medicine. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 18:17, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. wave lengths, vibrations, energy. Its is Innate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipe_organs This is known. It is well documented, and known in the past. Egypt, pyramids. Could be linked to many things, ancient civilizations, beliefs, history and cultures.
Topic on Neuroplasticity, in relation to brain dis orders, healing. This is more modern.
Genetic dis order?, Causes of toxins in our environment? In relation too.
"Mental illness", treatment of the brain as an organ. In, relation too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk) 23:32, 5 February 2017 (UTC) Brain, function. exercise, stimulation. Sense is, touch, eyes, ears, nose, tongue. exercise of mind, to learn, teach, heal. Is in relation to, feel, light, sound, smell, taste. Love.
The, pages, chiropractic medicine, and energy healing page, is a bit.. not really where i was going. More, knowledge of the past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Google "Human Seven Sense"
Humans Really Have Seven Senses (Don't Forget Proprioception and Vestibular Sensation) The way we understand the world is mediated by our five senses: touch, taste, sound, smell, and sight.
www.7senses.org.au/what-are-the-7-senses
www.collective-evolution.com/2014/11/16/your-7th-sense/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
this molecule, Ephedrine. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Ephedrine#section=Top electric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk) 07:51, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Topic, Climate. Stop. Nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.139.73 (talk) 10:47, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Why not adding Animal magnetism? Is it the lack of notability or because it is confined on the ideas of a single person? Thanks All the best Wikirictor 16:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
This discussion followed by these edits points to consensus being reached via WP:SILENT. An argument can be made re: WP:LISTVERIFY "obviously appropriate material" for having no references.... and that, or some other rational, seems to have been accepted. So reverting this edit per WP:CCC so we start discussion here. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 00:53, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
A local consensus cannot determine...and I don't actually see a consensus for this -- only a couple claims that there was (or that people didn't speak up quickly enough, which is not such a compelling argument when concrete policy objections are raised and the number of participants in the discussion multiplies). Absolutely everything given the label "pseudoscience" falls under "likely to be challenged" for WP:V purposes and cannot be considered "obviously appropriate". Also, from WP:SAL: "Stand-alone lists are subject to Wikipedia's content policies and guidelines for articles, including verifiability and citing sources. This means statements should be sourced where they appear, and they must provide inline citations if they contain any of the four kinds of material absolutely required to have citations." At least two and maybe three of those four certainly apply here: challenged statements (see talk page archive, for example) and likely to be challenged statements. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 05:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Re: "Our articles are not reliable sources" and "any of these items is very likely to be challenged" misses the point of a list. Lists specifically relate to the content of the article they list, i.e. the article is the source in the case of a list (a type of alternative navigation to a Category). "List of topics characterized as pseudoscience" is a list of like items, not a list of claims. It simply reports that (somewhere in the linked article) the topic has been labeled a pseudoscience. Its the same as reporting that "all articles included in this list contain a picture of a red car". Its a verifiable list of like items that is "obviously appropriate", you do not need a reference for that. If editors at (a specific) article reach a consensus to delete the picture of the red car there then they follow up and delete the entry from the list article. Lengthy descriptions, references, and battles about whether the picture of the red car should have even been in a given article belong at that parent article, not at the list.
Not using sources does get iffy where topics are not clearly labeled a "pseudoscience". That, again, is an argument for that article's talk page, not here re: WP:CFORK. Its a different argument: to cut back items in this list or delete the entire list. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 17:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
The general result of the previous discussion was that because this was a LIST of wiki pages where the discussion of if these were pseudoscience is already discussed, therefore there is no need for that same discussion to be repeated over again on the list page. It's a waste of space and effort. All you need to do is go to the home page. After the end of the previous discussion, I proceeded to systematically remove the sources from the list. I did this off and on for over a year. No one made any move to stop the progress until this bully came along and decided he knew better than everybody else. I'm not the one who started this unprovoked edit war.
none of these items in the list need any sources. --OtisDixon (talk) 19:45, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
This should probably be removed because it is clear that this list pays no attention to the four categories agreed upon. In group three it explicitly states psychoanalysis should not be classified as a pseudoscience. But it is included in the list. The article opens with WP:WEASEL words to make items included in the list to be as indiscriminatory as possible. I don't understand why the guidelines that the arbitration committee are not being used. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 22:40, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
A Wiki search for "Monatomic gold" redirects here, but there is no mention on the page. Was its inclusion here deleted without cause? RobP (talk) 22:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
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Hi all, just noticed the page for Silver Bullet is categorized as pseudoscience but not on this list. Silver bullet Thanks. 131.156.156.22 (talk) 06:06, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
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"Multiverse" under astronomy and space sciences, as the many theories are all pseudoscience considering their lack of falsifiability. TreyGrows (talk) 05:05, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
Since multiverse is then not unambiguously pseudoscience I contested its addition.Except in the universe where it is.
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template. This template is not to be used for getting people's attention. Nihlus 21:36, 12 October 2017 (UTC)I would like to state for the record that I think topics that are hotly debated politically and that there are serious scientists on both sides of the argument should not appear in pseudoscience. One might regard disagreement with the majority opinion on climate change as questionable, but it would be unscientific to call it pseudoscience. Climate science is measured in time scales outside of human lifetimes, generally speaking, so it is too soon to confirm either side of the argument. It is relatively trivial to find examples of eminent scientists in multiple fields who are skeptical about different topics involved in the debate. List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming
Evan Pokroy - Nullius In Verba 08:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EvPok (talk • contribs)
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Would someone read through the article for Omega Point and assess whether it should be included in this list? I realize that Singularity is still seen as not quite pseudoscience, but I think Omega Point is where the scale tips.
An article such as Dynamics: Seven Misconceptions About The Nature of Time (Part II) is clearly pseudoscientific. Dalgard (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
I also think we should add Adler's individual psychology to the list here because its claims are not testable and cannot be refuted; that is, they are not falsifiable.[1] --Notgain (talk) 07:48, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
References
Baraminology, Creation biology, Intelligent design, Irreducible complexity, and Specified complexity are currently listed at the top of "Life Sciences" heading and the same entries are duplicated under the "Religious and spiritual beliefs/Creation Science" heading. Many of these entries infringe on multiple areas of proper science. How do you decide under which heading and entry would fit here? --Notgain (talk) 01:01, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Is there any reason why Rorschach test is not in the list? It has an article dedicated to it and has been discredited as a pseudoscience. This would best fit under the heading 'psychological assessments' alongside MBTI. Both practices are discussed at length in "Science and Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology", Second Edition edited by Scott O. Lilienfeld, Steven Jay Lynn, Jeffrey. --Notgain (talk) 01:49, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
I just checked the archives here. Whether Marxism should be included in this list has come up a few times in this talk page's discussion archive. It was listed until 2016 when it was removed without any justification. Popper argued that Marxism interpretation of history was unfalsifiable: "In some of its earlier formulations (for example in Marx's analysis of the character of the "coming social revolution") their predictions were testable, and in fact falsified.[2] Yet instead of accepting the refutations the followers of Marx re-interpreted both the theory and the evidence in order to make them agree.". See also: . See also: Criticisms_of_Marxism#Historical_materialism --Notgain (talk) 00:09, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
This does not seem like a very good fit for the list. The addition of Popper's claim about pseudoscience in the historical materialism article is relatively recent, and there, as here, it seems largely based on his writing. On one hand, Popper, of course, is not a fan of "historicism" in general, of which the "Marxist interpretation of history" is an example. Do others really include in their definition of pseudoscience these branches of historiography (i.e. methods, not just specific claims)? On the other hand, he even hedges his judgment saying that some versions of the "Marxist interpretation of history" were not pseudoscience, and his problem seems to be with specific practitioners who force Marx's specific predictions into interpretations that comport to the course of history (as opposed to the thousands of people who have used the lowercase-m marxist historical methodologies). Without the addition of additional sources I would oppose this addition. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 05:05, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
References
{{cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)If anyone has the time to help (I currently don't), a socking regular tends to often play with references, i.e. "to sfn", while at the same time discretely suppressing some. From time to time those edits should be monitored and citations restored as necessary, unless there's a consensus to remove them. Example:. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 19:57, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi
I wish to propose the 'New Zealand Anti 1080 campaign' has a section in the 'topics characterized by pseudoscience' page, under the section about agriculture or new section environmental sciences.
The 'anti 1080 campaign' is an emotive argument using pseudoscience to justify the banning of sodium fluroacetate, 1080, in New Zealand. In doing so the 'anti 1080 campaign' is disregarding the body of published scientific evidence built up over time for the use of sodium fluroacetate, 1080, as a chemical to control introduced and harmful animals to New Zealand's Natural Environment.
The science that sodium fluroacetate, 1080, is not only effective and relatively safe method of introduced animal control is presented succinctly in the New Zealand Commissioner for the Environment's 2011 report looking at the use of sodium fluroacetate, 1080[1]. A 2017 reprint of the report can be found here: https://www.pce.parliament.nz/media/1689/pce-1080-2017-web.pdf . This report is a thorough piece of secondary research bring together a wide range of scientific research, and accurately portraying the facts around sodium fluroacetate, 1080. The report also definitively debunks any "scientific evidence" that is presented by the 'anti 1080 campaign' and scientifically addresses any concerns and objections the 'anti 1080 campaign has towards the use of the chemical sodium fluroacetate, 1080.
The 'anti 1080 campaign', is against the use of sodium fluroacetate, 1080. The Pseudoscience they are using is presented here: http://1080science.co.nz/ to justify in why they believe the chemical sodium fluroacetate, 1080, should be banned. For example as presented here: http://1080science.co.nz/is-1080-safe-in-water/ . The 'anti 1080 campaign' believe that the harmful level of 1080 in waterways is just above that of detection level [2], but they don't justify what detection level is of sodium fluroacetate, 1080, or what is the actual level in the water and dose that the chemical sodium fluroacetate, 1080, is needed to do harm to humans, but instead reference a wide range of resources looking at the toxicology of sodium fluroacetate, 1080.
A good simplified version of the types of pseudoscience the 'anti 1080 campaign' continue to uses and the scientific evidence that debunks the evidence around the justifications to ban sodium fluroacetate, 1080, that was recently presented in the media can be found in the video presented here[3] : https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2018/09/1080-works-but-there-s-no-arguing-with-anti-1080-activists-expert.html
I believe these examples given clearly shows the 'anti 1080 campaign' is based on pseudoscience - to create an movement based on emotion rather than scientific rational. This is why I think the 'New Zealand anti 1080 campaign' should have a section on the page of 'topics characterized by the use of pseudoscience.'
Thanks (The dirtbag consultant (talk) 03:04, 17 September 2018 (UTC))
Add Enneagram of Personality and Socionics. 104.228.101.152 (talk) 02:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
"Monoatomic gold" redirects here, but the topic does not appear on the page, or anything about gold. How does this happen? Lucy Kemnitzer (talk) 01:53, 9 January 2019 (UTC)Lucy Kemnitzer
The cryonics entry is awful. It doesn't really belong in this article and, even if it did, it's incredibly poorly written with several major grammar errors. Can we please get it removed? Jchapman25 (talk) 15:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
I attempted to clean it up a bit, but I've tried reasoning with the editor who put it there before, and I am loathe to try again. You're welcome to try, just don't say you weren't warned. Sumanuil (talk) 04:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Cryonics is not accepted by mainstream science. The Cryogenic Society of America says the belief of Cryonics are untenable. See . The Society for Cryobiology banned cryonicists from membership in 1982. The Society for Cryobiology says : Preserving a body, head or brain after clinical death and storing it indefinitely on the chance that some future generation may restore it to life is an act of speculation or hope, not science. For details please see the society position statement on cryonics . The RationalWiki classify Cryonics as pseudoscience or quackery. Sorry for bad grammar as I am not a native English Speaker, please help for revise and fix the grammatical error. Joeccho (talk) 07:05, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
"characterized as quackery" is all you need to be on this list so the OPs comment of "doesn't really belong" is a bit disingenuous. The linked article is a bit fluffy, but that is the only problem I see. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 18:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
This section seems disingenuous. Scientific racism has absolutely (and rightly) been characterized as a pseudo-science and I agree with its place here. But giving that section the title "racial theories" (when no other sub-headers are included) seems like an attempt to delegitimize the study of race/ethnic group differences. The study of differences between human races/ethnic groups is an important part of understanding modern-human evolution and there is no credible source that would characterise racial theories as a pseudo-science. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.189.240.37 (talk) 10:40, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Would this be considered worthy of being on here? It certainly fits the idea of pseudoscience; the existence of Jesus is generally accepted by mainstream historians (regardless of religious background) yet it's fair to say the 'Christ myth theory' has enjoyed a revival of sorts within the New Atheism movement. Would it fall under the History section of religious section? --RoBG97MEX (talk) 04:07, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Greetings, all. The article on Tantra is currently presenting the topic without any hint of criticism, let alone scientific retorts against it. Unless the subject of the article is a scientific fact beyond any dispute, we should follow WP:BALANCE and present opposing views clearly, drawing on secondary or tertiary sources that describe the disagreement from a disinterested viewpoint
. Titles such as Ayurveda, whose main components are tantric, are alteady part of the category of alternative and pseudo‑medicine. Any opinions or suggestions? -The Gnome (talk) 10:28, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
This: "...as a fuel.[33]Critics..." needs a space before the "C". Many thanks. 31.50.156.94 (talk) 19:48, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
I think there ought to be a specific entry about the pseudoscientific use of dietary supplements in addition to the entries mentioning usage of specific dietary supplements. I just can't figure out how to word it quite yet. Any suggestions? Rap Chart Mike (talk) 19:06, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Chomsky wrote "Skinner's account of grammar and syntax as autoclitic processes (Chap. 13) differs from a familiar traditional account mainly in the use of the pseudo-scientific terms control or evoke in place of the traditional refer" http://www.chomsky.info/articles/1967----.htm - I was considering adding stimulus control in the psychology heading in this list. Chomsky was and is a harsh critic of radical behaviorism. Not sure if it fits within the scope of this list though. Notgain (talk) 12:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
ISTM that there are a number of hypotheses about language and languages which merit mention as pseudoscience. There are wild speculatons about the origin of language, and about the origins of particular languages and groups of languages - for example, about the origins of Indo-European. I have heard various stories abut particular lanugages which supposedly mark them as unique among lanuages - language X is perfect in some respect, or is the original lanuage of all. There are claims that without "language police" that language will deteriorate to mere animals grunts. It may be to dignify fanciful etymologies as being pseudoscience - but fanciful etymologies have been the basis of philosophical speculations from the ancients to the present. TomS TDotO (talk) 17:43, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
There are a whole bunch of myths that have been circulated about left and right brain dominance that spread since the first split-brain operations. Some of it has some truth to it but most oversimplified. Why not have a section on myths in brain science? e.g. The logical left brain and the creative right brain. Notgain (talk) 00:48, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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Change "The theory is disounted by the mainstream physics community.[39]" to "The theory is discounted by the mainstream physics community.[39]". 50.197.191.177 (talk) 17:38, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Do you want to add an entry for EMDR? EMDR in the field of psychotherapy has been (and still is) characterized as pseudoscience (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735899000173). The detractors argued that the eye movements did not add anything so they called it pseudoscience (see https://doi.org/10.1016/S0272-7358(99)00017-3). It was argued that the mechanisms for action were the same as CBT/imaginal exposure. Two large meta analysis (see https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbtep.2012.11.001) show the effect size was large when eye movements were used. Now the quality of those meta-analyses are disputed. Also there is some evidence that eye movements serve as a response aid for those who do not engage fully in imaginal exposure (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbtep.2019.03.001). At the same time EMDR is included in evidence-based guidelines and supported by evidence from systematic reviews that it is equivalent to CBT for treatment of certain disorders, e.g. https://www.cochrane.org/CD003388/DEPRESSN_psychological-therapies-chronic-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-adults My opinion is that EMDR serves as a good edge case of science and pseudoscience in clinical psychology, and teaching example for science educators, so it would be good to include in this list. Notgain (talk) 02:08, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have just been templated by that special template that looks like that one that begins this TALK page. Basically the purpose is that, after you've been warmed, it's even easier to block or ban you from Wikipedia for editing in any way that somebody doesn't like about "pseudoscience." Which gets defined on this list, like some holy law.
Now, there is a problem here with "pseudoscience creep." You might start characterizing homeopathy as pseudoscience, and the next thing that happens is speculation about the future gets labeled as pseudoscience. That leaves any admin who is psychologically bothered about that subject, simply block any editor who wants to improve the article. Under the new lax guidelines that you've so carefully laid out. That hasn't happened to me, yet, but after 13 years of editing a very broad list of topics on Wikipedia, I can see the writing on the wall.
The proximate problem is cryonics. Is is a pseudoscience? Don't you have to claim to be a science (and not just a practice like mummification) to be a "pseudoscience"? So does cryonics generally claim to be able to cure you of death and promise to do the same? Not really. Cryonics companies are very careful to tell you nothing of the sort.
Whether cryonics might "work" (in some way) is a separate question. How would we know, since it involves the technologies of the future? Is interstellar travel a pseudoscience? How about faster than light travel? If so (nobody have proven they are possible) then why aren't they on the list here, and why are there such nice articles about them?
Let me hone it closer. There are just TWO citations supporting the idea that cryonics is a "pseudoscience" (which my argument opponents take as gospel). The problem is the first one does not say it's impossible, just unlikely. Okay, how unlikely must it be? The second article is titled as an attack on cryonics, but it's actually an attack on getting at the problem by mind uploading. Okay, fair enough, but why isn't mind uploading here on this list, and that article used to justify it? Mind uploading is actually a pretty good Wikipedia article. Can you see the problem? The problem is hypocrisy. And also people who think that words define reality. And even worse, a very legalistic bunch of people on Wikipedia who dont' like what they don't like, and to get rid of it, one reason is as good as another. A common problem in life. SBHarris 08:22, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
Vega machine is listed on Wikipedia as a supposed allergy tester - with a large number of medical governing bodies saying don't use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abz zeus (talk • contribs) 20:51, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
EMDR is widely used in treatment of trauma and related disorders. Isn't it UNDUE to include EMDR on this page? Puduḫepa 16:11, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
We should add this article - List of topics characterized as pseudoscience - on the list.
Pseudoscience accusations only make sense in the context of the claim of science. Many of the topics listed here do not even play on this field. So putting them on such a list mimics the pseudoscience strategy. Or illustrates it. Was this the idea? --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 20:36, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
e.g. see (german)
https://www.spektrum.de/news/forscher-klassifizieren-haeufig-social-bots-auf-twitter-falsch/1734898
english translation:
and therein mentioned puplications. 37.116.222.38 (talk) 14:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
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I suggest adding the following topic to the "Psychology" section of this article:
References
I suggest adding an explanation of what part of the “Gay frogs” conspiracy theory has to do with the paranormal. The entry as it stands looks like it is taking a negative point of view on Alex Jones giving no substance to its claim of the topic as this type of pseudoscience. Unless the topic objectively has anything to do with the paranormal, it should not be on this part of the list. 24.89.22.25 (talk) 05:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
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The final sentence under the main heading for TCM states in part "...some of the procedures and remedies have shown promise under scientific investigation". The links to which this refers largely appear to relate to acupuncture, and do not appear to support the procedure. There is an indication in one that parts of TCM have become medicine (i.e. no longer 'alternative medicine'), and so they presumably should not be classified as part of TCM/pseudoscience.
The classification of TCM seems too broad to be addressed ass a single item. This explains why there are several sub-items below it, but given that all of these are pseudo-scientific it is unclear whether the parent discussion adds any value or simply confuses the reader by suggesting that some TCM is potentially valid. 58.6.173.12 (talk) 02:52, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Under Paranormal and ufology, this item refers to "the five main senses". There are a lot more than five senses, as is clear from the Wikipedia entry to which this references. Perhaps it should instead state "independent of scientifically measurable senses..."? 58.6.173.12 (talk) 11:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Firstly, Lizard people has no citations. While this is allegedly something popularised by David Icke, there is nothing showing that. (The fact that it fails to mention the TV series V is also a little disappointing.)
Secondly, I am unsure on what basis the Tunguska event appears on this list as a subject. While there are plenty of crazy theories about it, one would expect those theories to be covered by their own titles rather than under an historic event. 58.6.173.12 (talk) 05:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
58.6.173.12 (talk) 06:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I'd just like to suggest that handwriting analysis and the electric universe be considered as candidate pseudosciences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C6E0:7050:9D41:286B:4814:CBE5 (talk) 23:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Please... Pubmed has 5000+ articles on the positive effects of homeopathy, why is there no reference? It should at least be treated as 'currently debated'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.70.139.221 (talk) 13:16, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
58.6.173.12 (talk) 06:23, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm guessing Ayurveda was removed with no one noticing. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 01:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
I would suggest to exclude this from the list. There is no really any unified pseudo-theory/pseudoscience of brainwashing. This is just a catchphrase for a number of propaganda techniques which do work as a matter of fact. According to our page, "Brainwashing is the concept that the human mind can be altered or controlled by certain psychological techniques". Yes, it certainly can, and we see it every day. My very best wishes (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Somatotype and constitutional psychology and brain types are also pseudoscientific ideas. 176.228.51.29 (talk) 12:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
"characterized" should not be included in the title, unless there are major objections I will change it to "List of pseudoscience topics". cheers, - NiD.29 (talk) 05:44, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
This is a list of articles that have a certain attribute---> article contains the a criticism of pseudoscience. So the title "List of topics characterized as pseudoscience" and the WP:LISTCRITERIA go hand in hand; the subject of the article has been "Characterized" that way (true or false).
This is, therefore, not a "List of pseudoscience topics".
There is no need for argument (or even reference) for items in this list, the article being linked already has the arguments and references - the list simply has a Yes/No criteria. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 21:04, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
surprised these aren't listed. --142.163.195.212 (talk) 01:45, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
The AAH is included as pseudoscience, indeed we assume that most scientists will agree on this, and a few prominent anthropologists has publicly stated so. But I found a peer-reviewed survey showing that actually the majority of scientists don't find it pseudoscientific, to my surprise, even among the (paleo)anthropologists. I think it's misleading or incorrect to include the AAH under this list, as now we have the data that contradict the inclusion criteria ("generally considered by the scientific community"). It should be either (1) removed from here and Category:Pseudoscience, or (2) remain here but mention the survey for balance (that's what I've added). Chakazul (talk) 04:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
So it's relevant to discuss the definition of pseudoscientific, unscientific and non-scientific? Pseudoscientific and unscientific are not entirely separate matters, as you may claim. Pseudoscience is a subset and a narrower concept than unscientific ideas, i.e. unscientific/pseudoscientific things are against the scientific method, while pseudoscience has the extra condition that the proponents pretend or try to be scientific, but failed. "Unscientific" is the broader characterization. If one group of scientists don't find something unscientific, by basic logic, we would expect equal or fewer scientists from the same group to find it pseudoscientific, because to consider it fake, one has to consider it false as a prerequisite. There is no condition that something is pseudoscientific (fake) but not unscientific (not false).
Thus the survey result that vast majority of its respondents find the AAH not unscientific (including not pseudoscientific) is more reliable and more significant than the N=1 by Hawk 2005. The numerical data is also in Figure 7, labelled "Pseudoscience", that is summarized by the authors in the conclusion. Chakazul (talk) 08:10, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
The Religious and Spiritual Beliefs section says, "...and some religions might be confused with pseudoscience, such as traditional meditation". I believe this is ambiguous and should be removed.
This was also called out in Talk Archive 18, where it says, "Issues in 'religious and spiritual beliefs' ... It is unclear from context whether 'traditional meditation' as mentioned in the introduction to this section, is being classified as pseudoscience". That concern does not appear to me to have been resolved.
HarriedSnail (talk) 08:59, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
it's been debunked numerous cryptologists and cryptographers, as well as numerous economists and financial analysts Lovebuny (talk) 22:12, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
In the history section, scientific socialism is listed as a pseudoscience, citing Karl Popper. Popper stood in opposition with socialism and the like, so including scientific socialism in this article may lend a subjective political viewpoint. The entry itself even states "The theory has been criticised by its opponents [...] as being pseudoscientific." GreenlandGneiss (talk) 09:08, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
This entry stands out in the psychology section as being a surgical intervention and not a theory or treatment, and needing citations. There seems to be enough medical sources about the topic, but they don't bother to disprove possible positive psychological effects at all (trepanning is used more in archeology and burr hole in modern medicine, with distinctions with craniotomy and craniectomy). At least for some milder claims the risks involved seem to weight much more than the lack of evidence for the claimed benefits, the lack of extensive studies on the matter hopefully doesn't need to be justified. Another way to include it in the article would be referring to practices from the past, but the purpose/role of the procedure even in relatively recent times doesn't seem to be clear enough for that. I was mostly wondering how well this compares with other similar entries and wanted to clarify what we are or should be talking about in this one, if some better refs come along, it would be even better. Personuser (talk) 00:30, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
I have recently added information on historical materialism, which was charactrerized as a pseudoscience by Karl Popper and others. This claim appears in one form or another in several Wikipedia articles (Historical materialism, Criticism of Marxism, Marxism, Falsifiability).
My edit was deleted with no explanation other than that I have "tried this before with scientific socialism". I have not made any edits to this page before 09.05.2021, at which point mentions of "scientific socialism" were removed from the article. I am in no way affiliated with the user who was the author of those edits. The contents of my edits was completely different.
I have re-added my paragraph. I believe Popper's critcism is notable enough to be included on this page. I have provided sources that discuss the claim in detail, as well as mentioned simmilar views by other thinkers to demonstrate this was not a singular opinion. I believe that the paragraph is written in a way which clearly demonstrates that Popper's claim is not an absolute truth and criticism of Popper is mentioned. Therefore I don't see any reason to delete it, especially if the sole rationale is "someone else wrote a simmilar, but ultimately different thing in the past". I'd like to hear comments on this. KtosKto64 (talk) 00:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
This phrase redirects here but as far as I can see there is no entry. What’s the deal? RobP (talk) 19:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
I'm confused as to why this topic has been included as pseudoscientific? Or at least how the article indicates what is pseudoscientific. The claims that are flatly unscientific are the ones attempting to conjure a more recent Western source for the Dogon's knowledge (of a lighter fainter star in orbit with the main, no mention of a white dwarf). These supposed exchanges aren't recorded or effectively preserved in any way, assuming their existence is therefore unfalsifiable, ergo, pseudoscientific. Killswitchwp (talk) 21:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
This edit request to List of topics characterized as pseudoscience has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The broken link to Aura from the Aura (paranormal) article:
This edit request to List of topics characterized as pseudoscience has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The section on "Historical materialism" under "Social Sciences" under "History" should be removed. The only justification given as to why it is pseudoscience is that it is non-falsifiable, which also applies to other theories generally considered to be true, such as evolution by natural selection.
Furthermore, the section says, "Historians are overwhelmingly against historical materialism, as is the case with all theories of history", but the section on history does not list any of these other theories as pseudo-science. Because it would be unmanageable to list every totalizing theory of history under this section (religious, racial, economic, environmental etc.), the subsection on historical materialism should be removed.
Thank you Y2ursp7cr (talk) 05:26, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}}
template. There is enough talk page discussion, not just in archives, but even right above. Y2ursp7cr Please read through before opening requests. Hemantha (talk) 07:07, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
On 11 Decemer 2021, on her first article edit, user Jordanna.Nolan (talk · contribs) made this edit, replacing minus signs with dashes in 9 comment closure strings "-->", resulting in the hiding of a lot of content. I have tried to undo this (), but there still seems to be hidden content, visible in the edit window, but not in the rendered page. So I have restored the situation of 26 November 2021, prior to Jordanna.Nolan's first edit. - DVdm (talk) 11:54, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Note: I will have a look at other users' edits, made after 26 Nov 2021, and make some changes. - DVdm (talk) 12:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
I don't think anyone has ever claimed this theory is scientific. Why is it included in a list of pseudo-science? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.180.92.37 (talk) 07:10, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
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health section, Rolfing - "memories storied in muscles", shouldn't it be stored? CamphorNoodles (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
On my Talk page here, I was asked about this edit and edsum. It was a very lazy edit, because I never looked at the page, just the diff and page history. I was looking for a quick and easy way to justify the removal of an innappropriate addition. It does not appear to have been a copyvio.
Instead, it was a couple of sentences and a huge number of refs with copious notes that did not support the placing of "Economics" on to a list of topics characterised as Pseudoscience. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 02:46, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Sorry to read about the cancer. 22 yr survivor here after having experienced for 8 yr outward indications something was wrong, then voila, chemo, radiation and a body fat count of about 1% so that I could attest that I did have a six-pack that reminded me of lamb chops! Keep up the spirit!2603:8000:D300:D0F:D5D:8295:289E:24F5 (talk) 03:23, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Men are significantly affected by the moon. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34520928/
--InvestInSuccess (talk) 08:02, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
A 2015 systematic review in Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine found that Feldenkrais has "broad application in populations interested in improving awareness, health, and ease of function". Meta-analysis showed significant improvements in both balance and functional reach. The authors noted, "as a body of evidence, effects seem to be generic, supporting the proposal that [Feldenkreis] works on a learning paradigm rather than disease-based mechanisms. Further research is required; however, in the meantime, clinicians and professionals may promote the use of [Feldenkreis] in populations interested in efficient physical performance and self-efficacy."
Cite: Hillier S, Worley A. The effectiveness of the feldenkrais method: a systematic review of the evidence. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2015;2015:752160. doi: 10.1155/2015/752160. Epub 2015 Apr 8. PMID: 25949266; PMCID: PMC4408630.
Ocaasi t | c 20:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
EMDR is an evidence-based therapy that is endorsed and utilised by government agencies and psychiatric associations around the world. It was founded in the 1980s by a prominent psychologist/academic and has been subject to the scientific method since day one. I understand that there’s been some limited academic accusations of pseudoscience, but as you note on this page – they’ve been refuted. The mere fact that it’s placed on a list like this (alongside topics such as ‘phrenology’ and ‘lizard people’ conspiracy theories) implies that it is pseudoscientific. The casual reader will simply place it in the same basket as those topics. Please can you consider removing it completely. The pseudoscience accusations are listed on the main EMDR Wikipedia entry, so they will remain cited.@ 1.157.112.63 (talk) 00:29, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
Resurrection is the concept of coming back to life after death. Death is the irreversible cessation of all biological functions that sustain an organism. In a number of religions, a dying-and-rising god is a deity which dies and is resurrected. Belief in the resurrection of the dead, and Jesus' role as judge, is codified in the Apostles' Creed, which is the fundamental creed of Christian baptismal faith. The Book of Revelation makes many references to resurrection, about the Day of Judgment when the dead will be raised. Resurrection is often confused with resuscitation. Resuscitation is the process of correcting a physiological disorder (such as lack of breathing or heartbeat) in an acutely ill patient. Resuscitation is an important part of intensive care medicine, anesthesiology, trauma surgery and emergency medicine. Well known examples are cardiopulmonary resuscitation and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. 98.192.49.136 (talk) 02:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
I am in STRONG disagreement that GBD qualifies as pseudoscience. First, it was an opinion on policy, that is, by definition, not pseudoscience. Nor is targeted attention to the vulnerable population "pseudoscience" - we don't vaccinate mice against smallpox. I don't feel any objective editor would include the claim that the GBD contained an "impossible idea". That line alone should clue anyone in on the problem. Herd immunity, the ineffectiveness of various US State policies, and the FACT that resources are limited aren't pseudoscience. It is really unfortunate, imho, that, right or wrong, a different opinion on what the best policy should be is subject to name calling.174.130.71.156 (talk) 12:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
It is not entirely clear how it ended up on this list, given that no one has ever made the claim that 12-step programs were confirmed scientifically as the only treatment for addiction or a cure, but the vast majority of substance use disorder and addiction medicine professionals tend to see the value of 12 step programs, but just typically in conjunction with other medicinal and psychological therapeutic regimens. In fact the only thing that really would place it on this list based on how pseudoscience is defined here would be if Dr. Bob’s written views were taken to speak as a verification of 12-step programs as a form of science, which is ironic because the Doctor’s Opinion in the Big Book of AA, which actually would be considered both a form of narrative as well as case study, phenomenological, and even to an extent ethnographic forms of qualitative research. Still, based on how many things on this list don’t totally fit the definition listed on here as pseudoscience, I understand the reasoning for including. However, as a Wikipedia article, it should be important that the information provided, even for something like a list of pseudoscience topics, should be as unbiased as possible. Otherwise, I mean then wouldn’t that be just as unscientific? I say this because the two articles used for the 12-step program entry on this list are both secondary source online magazine articles, and given that neither of those media outlets are psychological, medical, or scientifically based at all, and given the nature of both of those articles which I found and read, the source material used is extremely one-sided, which is all the more concerning considering that same “pseudoscientific” program model, that has at least some support from the supposed experts, has spawned more than 200 types of “Anonymous” fellowships and has tens of millions of active and in recovery members on all inhabited continents and most countries, even Iran and is made available online in sparsely populated countries such as Greenland as well as countries less conducive to open in-person, attendance such as The Philippines. Borrissj (talk) 12:43, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Please note that due to the controversial nature of the label "Pseudoscience", we must demand a reliable source from an appropriate source in order to include it. If something seems to be obviously pseudoscience, then either such a source likely exists somewhere or it isn't notable enough to warrant inclusion. The inclusion criteria must necessarily be strict enough that notability should be established at the main article first, using RS. So ensure that the main article first contains proper information documenting that the subject is labeled as pseudoscience before entering the item here.
@Some1@Fountains of Bryn Mawr more precisely, we need sources showing that experts or noted commentators have described the program as pseudoscience. We don't need to show it is pseudoscience. I believe we have that below in the sources I've linked. Though to comply with WP:FRINGE and WP:MEDSCI we also should say something along the lines of "Though recent evidence suggests it is as effective as other treatments in providing relief from alcohol use disorder" etc. Probably needs workshopping. But you get the idea. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 19:07, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
...these findings suggest that AA is indeed a pseudoscientific treatment, persisting by virtue of intuitive appeal and strident adherents despite weak empirical support...To conclude, the role of AA in the science-based AUD treatment enterprise has been highly controversial....from a scientific standpoint, there are reasons to be critical of AA’s outmoded etiological model and to question the strong identification of formal treatment programs with AA principles (Kelly, 2013). Participation in community mutual-help groups like AA will not be for all patients, but, for some, AA may very well enhance formal treatment efforts.
At the heart of the debate is the quality of the evidence. AA critics have argued that AA is a cult that relies on God as the mechanism of action [11], and that rigorous experimental studies are necessary in order to convince them of AA’s effectiveness. Their concern is well-founded. As will be evident from this review, experimental studies represent the weakest of the available evidence. However, the review also will highlight other categories of evidence that are overwhelmingly convincing with respect to AA effectiveness, including the consistency with established mechanisms of behavior change
No experimental studies unequivocally demonstrated the effectiveness of AA or TSF approaches for reducing alcohol dependence or problems. One large study focused on the prognostic factors associated with interventions that were assumed to be successful rather than on the effectiveness of interventions themselves, so more efficacy studies are needed.
All we really need is to show some experts have characterized AA as pseudoscientific. And we clearly have that in Lilienfeld and Kaskutas. We don't actually have to show it's pseudoscience to have it included in this list.The ever-growing definitions of AA have reached a point where they tell us more about each author than about AA as an organization or a framework of alcoholism recovery (Miller & Kurtz, 1994). AA has been variably depicted as a society (Wilson, 1949), social movement (Room, 1993), culture of recovery (White, 1996), system of beliefs and speech event (Makela, et al, 1996); spiritual program (Miller & Kurtz, 1994), and a religious cult (Bufe, 1991). One of the most pervasive characterizations of AA is that of a “treatment” for alcoholism (Bebbington, 1976; Tournier, 1979; Emrick, 1989; Najavits, Crits-Christoph, & Dierberger, 2000; McGovern & Carroll, 2003). In 1994, psychologist William Miller and AA historian Ernest Kurtz, wrote a seminal article noting popular and professional misconceptions about AA. Using AA’s own literature, Miller and Kurtz challenged these misconceptions.
But I would say an appropriate and DUE treatment would be to say something along the lines of "AA has been criticized as pseudoscientific, a religious cult, etc. but recent reviews of the evidence have shown it is effective blah blah blah"Just my 2 cents. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 19:04, 27 January 2023 (UTC)AA/TSF interventions produce similar benefits to other treatments on all drinking-related outcomes except for continuous abstinence and remission, where AA/TSF is superior. AA/TSF also reduces healthcare costs. Clinically implementing one of these proven manualized AA/TSF interventions is likely to enhance outcomes for individuals with AUD while producing health economic benefits.
inasmuch as science does not deal with spiritual realities, exorcism cannot be considered a pseudoscience unless believers in it start making claims that could be subject to scientific enquiry. 142.163.195.41 (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
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