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Kigo was one of the Language and literature good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||
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To-do list for Kigo:
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Even for something so short, I have pretty of questions and disagreements about this stub, so I will probably be doing some editing of the page in the near future. My problems with the page include:
1) Senryu did NOT derive from seasonless (muki) or miscellaneous (zō) haiku. The very short answer is that haiku and senryu both derive from haikai-no-renga, not senryu from haiku.
2) A collection of kigo (season words) is a kiyose. A collection of kigo along with commentary on the kigo and example haiku is a saijiki.
3) Kigo translates as "season word", but it can be either a word (e.g. 'snowmelt' is a Spring kigo), or a phrase (e.g. 'cranberry raking' is an Autumn kigo).
4) In my opinion, "a proper haiku must use a kigo" is not a neutral POV (my problem is the "must"). I will concede that it is the majority opinion in Japan and maybe even among English-language haiku poets. I'd probably rephrase that as either "a traditional Japanese haiku should include a kigo" or "a classic Japanese haiku should include a kigo". Although English haiku are more likely to use seasonless topics (e.g. pigeon) or even be kigo-less, even modern japanese haiku can be use seasonless topics or be kigo-less (see Makoto Ueda's Modern Japanese Haiku: An Anthology, University of Toronto Press, ISBN 0-8020-2147-6 hardback ISBN 0-8020-6245-8 paperback) and especially many of the free-verse haiku of Taneda Santōka. Refering to the work of Japanese scholars, William Higgonson in his The Haiku Seasons ( Kodansha International © 1996 ISBN 4-7700-1629-8) said that Shiki wrote a few hundred haiku that are classified as zō (miscellaneous), and even Bashō wrote around ten as zō.
5) The link to a missing Wikipedia "List of kigo" webpage should probably be removed because I will be adding links to a number of good lists of kigo that already exist on the internet. There should, however, be a small list of example kigo included with this article.
gK 13:35, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC) revised 11:10, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Greetings.
There is much debate as to what is haiku, most of
which is due to the divergent Western style from the
Japanese style and the confusion of which style is
being defined. Except for a few exceptions (muki),
JAPANESE haiku have kigo. The Japanese culture has a
much greater affinity and emphasis on the seasons than
the West does. When the West adopted haiku, their
interpretation of Japanese translated haiku was that
they were about nature in general instead of about
seasons in specific. Being that many Japanese kigo
are too subtle by Western standards, Western readings
of JAPANESE haiku usually missed the seasonal
association. So WESTERN haiku are free form in that
they don't require kigo and although the WESTERN haiku
were once required to be about nature instead (which
often had kigo incidentally) they don't anymore and
now the focus is placed on the topics being chaste.
However, if you intend to use a definition that
WESTERN haiku require a kigo then may I suggest
labeling the haiku a style of haiku such as
neo-classical haiku. I wouldn't recommend the terms
classical or traditional which might also suggest the
5-7-5 form. Although Western haiku originally had a
syllabic form of 5-7-5 most are now written in free
verse.
The article speaks that kigo are culture/region
specific and uses pumpkins for an example but than
goes to describe Japanese seasons in detail. I don't
sense a clear distinction between Japanese and other
region's kigo.
In the West the 'harvest' moon or 'autumn' moon is an
autumn kigo but not the moon in general, while
depending on adjectives and phrasing it is actually a
kigo used in all four seasons by the Japanese.
Although the article is very informative and clear for
the most part, I would like to see it clarify when it
is speaking of Japanese haiku/kigo or some other region's.
Michael Baribeau May 6, 2005
.
I like haiku but I don`t know much about the history. However, I would think the Tanabata and Bon festival paragraph belongs in summer rather than autumn? Andycjp 14/4/2005
Thanks:
Filiocht: The Japanese have a number of defaults, such as Blossoms=Cherry Blossoms, and Moon=Autumn Moon. "Fruit" however, does not have a default, but has to be specified as to the type of fruit, which could be a summer fruit (such as cherries, raspberries, watermelon, etc.) or it could be an autumn fruit like the nashi pear or the other fruits that I mentioned after the nashi pear. Basically what I'm saying is that your fruit edit doesn't work under the category of "Common kigo" because "fruit" by itself can't be a kigo.
The one thing that I think the Kigo article is currently missing are a short "Kigo and haiku" and short "Kigo and renga" section. The haiku section could mention the famous "frog" haiku of Matsuo Basho which is already translated in the haiku article, and point out that frogs are a spring kigo. A whole renga, even a short 36 stanza kasen renga would be way too long for the kigo article or even the renga article, but maybe a single stanza would be appropriate in the renga section. 12:19, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
................................
Your LINKS
You could link your kigo examples to the ones in the Kigo Database, there is more kigo-related information than in the links you provide just now. Most of them are already here. Nashi is not a very common Japanese kigo. Reduce the samples to two or three of each season would be enough, I suggest for this introductory essay.
Check the seasonwords with explanations here
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/
I also wrote an intro to the kigo database now here with some examples
http://www.worldhaikureview.org/4-1/whcjapan-p2.htm
Gabi
It is an interesting topic, and necessary but the first paragraph seems to be confused for me a bit.
There might be a confusion; as far as I know
And I think the quotation the above make a confusion on those points. --Aphaea* 02:18, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
re:Must be seasonal: Unless you are going to say that, for example, much of what Taneda Santoka wrote was only zappai and not haiku (which is the way that many people feel), then this is not absolutely true. BlankVerse ∅ 02:42, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
........................................................
From Gabi
Kigo are the rule of Japanese haiku, not the exception. This should be made clear in a basic essay about kigo, I suggest.
WCH World Kigo Database
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/
WHC World Kigo Discussion Forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WHCworldkigo/
Well I meant I thought the sentence the below was a digression: those internal stanzas have no direct relation to haiku. It should be written in (or moved to) renga.
"Note, however, that most of the pre-Meiji poets such as Bashō were primarily haikai no renga poets (that is, they composed linked verse with other poets), so they wrote plenty of miscellaneous and love stanzas for the interior lines of a renga.
But I think we have to refer attempt haiku without kigo in Taisho era, too.
Saijiki is a term with such Japanese-cultral/haiku-specific overtones that it seems a little odd to see examples such as "Dominion Day" and "siesta" listed. Seeing how a saijiki is essentially a collection of kigo anyway, it seems a little redundant to have a collection of kigo under Saijiki, especially when more follow immediately in the next section. It seems like the examples should be merged and categorized in a way similar to the article called 季語一覧 in the Japanese wikipedia. That said, it might be interesting to see what new "season words" have arisen in other cultures and languages with the spread of haiku. CES 14:21, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
(A parenthetical note: this page has been improved a lot recently- nice work!- but the bolding looks a bit maniacal. Like reading William Blake. ;) Mark1 08:13, 5 May 2005 (UTC))
...........
Saijiki on various topics, for example
Saijiki for Buddhist Events
http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2005/01/saijiki-of-buddhist-events.html ...
Chapter SAIJIKI here lists a lot more topical ones
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2006/12/seasons-and-categories.html
Gabi.
I was a student of the late Fujita Akegarasu (1934 - 2004). Akegarasu sensei believed kigo is essential to the art of haiku. Kigo to the Japanese writer of haiku is part of the foundation of the poem. From my (non-Japanese studying Japanese haiku) view, what this means is a melding of feeling using the kigo as an anchor. I am not sure if "anchor" is the right word, perhaps, "catalyst" is better, in that, kigo, does not itself change, but, rather acts to help the reader feel the depth of the verse.
That is, the "heart" of the haiku. As has been mentioned earlier in previous discussions on haiku being from the beginning of a "renga" sequence, then, more stand-alone as Shiki sensei believed, it became haiku from the hokku. The hokku gives a strong hint as to what haiku should be. Hokku was the "greeting" to get the linked verse started. In this, hokku set the framework, season and setting for the group to continue. These aspects were retained in what became haiku. In fact, if you take the hokku by itself, you essentially have haiku.
This is still very valid in haiku of Japan today. If you want to confirm that assessment, just look at any collection of haiku from the proliferation of haiku circles (haiku writer groups) in Japan today. I would like to see the rest of the world adhere as closely as possible to this Japanese spirit when writing poems that represent the haiku art.
Retain both kigo and kireji in spirit and practice as essential components of any haiku. The techniques I currently feel sound are: developing a world saijiki; and using equivalent punctuation for the Japanese kireji. Also, there are many more reusable components such as kakekotoba (word play) that may cross the translation bridge between English and Japanese.
As with any literary congress between two diverse cultures... something will inevitably be lost in translation, but, the essential spirit of the haiku art supported by "ARTifacts" such as kigo and kireji (to mention just two) will limit that loss to a minimum, I do so hope.
~chibi (haigou for Dennis M. Holmes)
A question: I refered some saijiki I have and they are written in Japanese. Should I list them also in the References section or leave those non-English books? --Aphaea* 09:00, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
We should link to Japanese calendar somewhere — maybe instead of Chinese calendar?
someone removed uguisu from Spring kigo section. I strongly oppose it. Uguisu, sorry I don't know how it is called in Eglish, this little bird is the most important bird kigo in the spring in my opinion. It appears alread in Kokinwakashu or Manyoshu. --Aphaea* 07:17, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
In Higginson's Haiku Handbook he says that "festival" (matsuri) is an all summer kigo since almost every city and town has a festival, usually associated with a local Shinto shrine. BlankVerse ∅ 08:34, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Autumn Festival is a kigo
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2005/01/autumn-festival-aki-matsuri.html
Festivals of Japan - Matsuri
http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2005/06/festivals-of-japan.html
I just checked at Google. Like many Wikipedia articles, this article is the first listing at Google when you search for "Kigo" (see (). BlankVerse ∅ 03:36, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
I have put in a request at Wikipedia:Peer Review as the next step before nominating this article as a Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. BlankVerse ∅ 14:23, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
Feel free to ignore any of these suggestions!
Fg2 11:35, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
These are all very good points, and either you or I can go ahead and do some editing on the Kigo article (this is a Wiki!). As for repeating the info on zō and muki. There is a problem in the non-Japanese haiku community in that the word "kigo" has been in common usage for about 50 years, but many of the underlying and related Japanese concepts are not well known. I may have gone a little overboard in emphasizing this info. There is another problem that I am not sure that I have been able to provide a good cure for. For many haiku poets, both Japanese and non-Japanese, haiku absolutely must have a kigo. I have tried to respect that position, but still show that for some people haiku do not absolutely have to have a kigo. Showing that there are haiku with zō and muki is an attempt to show a half-way point between the two positions. BlankVerse ∅ 15:16, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
Organizing common kigo? Should it just be alphabetically, or should each season also be divided into the same categories as shown in the Saijiki section (Season, Sky and Heaven, Earth, etc.)? BlankVerse ∅ 15:55, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Here are a couple more photos to consider.
Commons has a page on lotus. My photo (right) is now a Featured Picture on Commons (a tighter vertical crop is also available) and several other excellent pictures by other photographers are available.
Also, crape myrtle in front of the ancient pagoda at Toji, a temple in Kyoto.
Fg2 12:01, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
A couple of shots of Kinkaku in the snow at Commons:Kyoto#Kinkaku-ji temple 金閣寺. Fg2 21:58, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
And how about sounds like Image:Japanese nightingale note05.ogg (songs of male Japanese bush warbler - "uguisu" in spring)
Some more candidates:
Thank you for commenting out the New Years fireworks. Even though I try to be cognisant of cultural differences, I am just sooooo used to the association of fireworks with the New Year that I didn't even think about Japan being different until AFTER I had added the picture. I was going to edit it out myself, but got wrapped up in doing other editing and then forgot. Is there a Japanese holiday that is usually associated with fireworks?
For the Koinobori, there is also a nice picture in the English Wiki Koinobori and Kodomo no hi articles, which would go with my desire to add both kigo and pictures related to human activities.
For the Hina Dolls, there is a different picture at Hinamatsuri, but I think I like the Japanese Wiki one better.
For your typical autumn dish, I got the translation 秋刀魚 【さんま(gikun)】 (n) pike (fish); saury. Pike (fish) is Esox, which is not the right fish. It should be Pacific saury, or Cololabis saira. The EN Wikipedia calls that a Mackerel pike, so I guess that I should add the JA photo to the EN stub article (or copy the JA photo to WikiCommons, and then link).
I liked your photo of the rice harvest, and there are more pictures at ja:稲作 and ja:田. There are a couple of photos at Paddy field, but again they aren't as nice, so it looks like there are a couple of more JA Wiki photos to copy over.
For the last picture, I assume that it is a kadomatsu, 門松 【かどまつ】 (n) New Year's pine decoration. Is this another one? ja:Shimekazari kumano01.jpg BlankVerse ∅ 16:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
At right: not a poet, but a poem with a kigo.
Thank you for nice photos. As experiment, I put two photos you suggested. Later you would like to modify them in more appropriate way or replace with other photos - as for the new year ornament, it is not kadomatsu (pine at gate) but "shimenawa" - dvine rope (made by straw). Both are for welcoming the New Year, but different ones (perhaps on Commons we can find photos of Kadomatsu, too...). --Larus.r 18:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
The section of examples of significant kigo is great. But it is limited to the nature too much, there are already fests but ordinary things in life are seldom referred. For example, there is no reference to rice cultivation! (Taue, inekari and so on). And it lacks still traditional favorite in Japansee poetry (like "crying deer" [Autumn] or "yamabuki" [Spring] ... (sorry I don't know how English people call yamabuki, but if I recall corerctly I saw a pic in Commons ...) --Larus.r 13:31, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
............................
Yamabuki is a plant > see here
http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2006/12/yellow-rose-yamabuki.html
.............................
The "Japanese haiku: a topical dictionary" is part of the Japanese Text Initiative of the University of Virginia Library. They have a moderately-sized kiyose (list of kigo), with a smaller number of saijiki-like entries with example haiku, photographs, and even an occasional sound sample. For the New Years subsection of the Common Kigo section, I've added asterisks (*) after the Japanese name for the kigo that is an external link to the topical dictionary entry. I would like to have some feedback on this addition to the article. Is it worth continueing and adding to all the kigo for which the topical dictionary has larger entries? BlankVerse ∅ 08:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
In preparation for trimming down some of the kigo that are in the Common Japanese Kigo section of the Kigo article, I've created a new article, List of kigo. For the new article, I have divided each month into the usual categories (The Year, The Heavens, etc.). I also integrated into the List of Kigo all of the kigo that were in the Saijiki and Non-Japanese Kigo sections of the Kigo article. For many, but not all categories, I have also alphabetized the kigo within the category, and will try to finish that within the next day or two. Some of the photos will also need to be moved around to make things look a little less cluttered (at least when I view the page at 800x600).
Also, I have reworked the To-do list on this Talk page, so if you click the Purge link, you will see the ambitious new To-do list. BlankVerse ∅ 10:05, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Though I was the one who began to add every month to the list of kigo, I propose to trim most of month name from the current list. It seems to me enough
So we can trim three of four similar redundant entries.. --Aphaea* 19:58, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Kigo article has been submitted for review as a Good Article at Wikipedia:Good article candidates#Media and the arts (literature, media, music, film, games)/ Although the article is currently just under the 32KB requirement [at 31.6 kB (4816 words)], I still listed it as a long article. BlankVerse 10:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I, as a native japanese, wonder what the word means. Perhaps, this is misunderstanding or mis-spelling. On what reference this word can be find? --124.25.23.226 14:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the following from the "History of kigo" section:
Following scholarly precision, the term haikai is used here for the pre-Shiki form and haiku for the post-Shiki form, though popular usage often anachronistically applies haiku to both pre- and post-Shiki verse. Much of what is said here of kigo use in haiku applied to haikai (and the hokku of renga) as well.
Firstly, it is untrue in the sense that the convention which it specifies is not followed in the article; secondly, the convention which it specifies is in any case incorrect: 'haikai' was (and continues to be) used to describe (narrowly) the linked verse form also known as haikai no renga (or renku), and (broadly) the literary genre which includes renku, haiku, haiga, haibun and senryu.
There is a great deal of undesirable inconsistency in the article between the use of 'hokku' and 'haiku'. The usage question is not complex:
Hokku is the term for the opening verse of a renga; it was also used, pre-Shiki, to describe such a verse even when presented independently;
Haiku is the term used by Shiki for standalone hokku; it has come to be used retrospectively by the overwhelming majority, to describe all standalone hokku, including those penned before Shiki's time, even though such verses were known as hokku at the time of writing. While some vociferous argument can be found regarding nomenclature (see e.g. David Coomler's blog) it is largely irrelevant to this article.
I'll come back to this shortly and make a consistency edit, but if anyone wants to make a case for a particular position please do so.
--Yumegusa (talk) 11:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Done that, though the bit in "Must haiku include a kigo?" on Basho is problematic in this respect, as it is unclear whether (standalone) haiku or hokku (from within renku) are being referred to. Probably both combined. But it leaves a fairly glaring inconsistency. Ideas anyone?--Yumegusa (talk) 01:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
A large number of the external links listed under 'References' appear to be in direct conflict with WP:EL which frowns on links to Yahoo! groups and blogs. Yet the information to be found in Gabi Greve's WKD (to which most of those links refer) is both reliable and useful. Leave them in in defiance of stated WP policy?--Yumegusa (talk) 01:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
A good article is—
Well written: (a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct; and (b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation.[1]
Factually accurate and verifiable: (a) it provides references to all sources of information, and at minimum contains a section dedicated to the attribution of those sources in accordance with the guide to layout;[2] (b) at minimum, it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons;[2] and (c) it contains no original research.
Broad in its coverage: (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;[3] and (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias. Stable: it does not change significantly from day-to-day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.[4] Illustrated, if possible, by images:[5] (a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and (b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.[6]
This articles fails many of the above criteria, specifically:
2b) There is only one citation in the whole thing., means:
i have no idea if 2c) is passed.
Also it has MOS problems: there is a lot of unneccesary bolding, and all the bullet points disrupt flow, the sections are out of order, and the inconsistancy and linkfarming mentioned on the talk page are worrying.
As the sourcing and rewriting problems seem to require a lot of work, i think it is uncontrovertial to say this is not a "Good article" according to our standards, so it must be delisted. It's an interesting topic, so i hope that subsequent improvment will be followed by renomination for GA.Yobmod (talk) 08:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
In the Kigo and seasons section there appears the sentence: "A little later in the year pumpkins are also associated with the pumpkin pies that are often part of the US Thanksgiving Day dinner along with turkey and cranberries": I wonder why, in an account of something specifically Japanese. One could pepper the article with analogues in other cultures across the world, but it is not clear to me how this would help clarify understanding of the use of kigo in Japanese poetry. Certainly I cannot see any justification for singling out one non-Japanese culture for comparison. Is there any objection to removing this sentence? JamesBWatson (talk) 13:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I undid the following addition: "However, to an island nation with a massive population, farming is a vital industry and even the smallest increase in production is heavily researched. As any grower or agriculturer can attest, the phases and characteristics of the moon are of increased importance during both the harvest and seeding seasons. It is widely known, yet still falls under the realm of pseudoscience, that seed germination is sped up by a notable margin if sowing is done in cooperation with phases of the moon. Depending upon the type of crop the influence of the moon can strengthen the root system, influence yield, or effect flowering and all this diverse alteration of crop growth is contingent on mere hours."
There are several reasons:
--Daniel (talk) 18:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
This page is almost entirely uncited, and most of it is a list of kigo. It seems like listing words belongs on List of kigo. Can we just remove the lists from this page to help it be more focused on what a kigo is? Also, hi, I work at the Brigham Young University library as their Wikipedian-in-Residence and I've been looking at haiku-related pages this week. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 22:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
I found a citation for the list of Southern California season words! It is the blog of the Southern California study group. I think it is a great example of how kigo change based on location. However, I'm not sure if we consider it a reliable source. Thoughts? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 19:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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