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This is an archive of past discussions about Kamma (caste). Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
1. The Old Post-Kakatiya section was essentially more of an Origins section, which is already present, and it repeated some information present in the Origins section. Therefore, I shifted the origins content, namely the Belthi Reddi folktale and the descent of Velamas and Reddys from Kapus, into the Origins section.
2. I have written a new section for the Post-Kakatiya section. I am going to explain each sentence and its justification below:
- "The demise of the Kakatiya Empire resulted in confusion and anarchy for sometime, before the Musunuri Nayaks brought stability to the region." (This is a direct usage from the Kakatiya page that is exceptionally sourced.)
- "The Musunuri Nayaks, who Telugu historians have stated are Kammas, led a confederacy of Telugu nobles to liberate the Telugu regions from the rule of the Tughlaqs." (There are a grand total of 7 citations attesting to their roots as Kammas. All from the post-1990 era, including ones from 2000s, except for one in 1988. That is the fact and I have written as such. The other part of the sentence is a usage from the Kapaya Nayaka article, and I was not the one who phrased it that way initially.)
- "The Vilasa Grant of Prolaya Nayaka, where he bemoaned the devastation of Telugu regions under the Turks, sought to legitimize himself as the rightful restorer of order following the Kakatiyas. Kapaya Nayaka, who was the cousin of Prolaya, later succeeded him, and the capital was shifted to Warangal following Kapaya Nayaka's ousting of Malik Maqbul, who was the governor of that area for the Delhi Sultanate. The Musunuri Nayaks were succeeded by the Recherla Nayakas." (These sentences should not be controversial. They reflect the main-pages of these articles, and I used as much direct phrasing as possible from the likes of Eaton.)
- "Cynthia Talbot states that the modern-castes of the Telugu states did not originate until the late stages of the Vijayanagara Empire." (This is a critical piece of information included in most-post Kakatiya articles before Vijayanagara. I have stated what she has written. If there are more historians that agree with her, do provide citations in the Talk Page so it can be rephrased.).
- "Telugu historians disagree with that statement. For instance, B.S.L Hanumantha Rao, states that the post-Kakatiya Andhradesa (Telugu regions) experienced a triangular-conflict between the Velamas, Kammas, and Reddys, and K.Satyamurthy noted that the post-Kakatiya period saw the Kammas, Reddys, and Velamas, among others, leading Telugu society." (This reflects the other part of the equation to show Telugu historians, with all theirs positives and faults, disagree with Tolbot. Dr. Benbabaali herself attributed the word Kamma to describe a specific community to the 10th century, which contradicts Tolbot's conclusions. As Ms. Talbot's work is mentioned, there is no harm in mentioning the views of local historians since the two specific ones I have cited are in the 1990s.)
3. I have written this in the most agreeable language without the usage of "Peacock" or other glorification terminology. Much of what I added is not my own writing, but rather the work of other great contributors on Wikipedia. Everything is properly sourced with as many as 7 sources and reflects the current main-pages of those articles. Callofduty259 (talk) 02:49, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
I am afraid it makes no differences how many hundreds of Andhra historians "disagree" with Cynthia Talbot. Talbot has done the research and published it in internationally refereed journals and Oxford University. They have nothing to counter it with, except folklore. This is POV and not acceptable. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content. In general, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication.
Talbot is a minority opinion that is contradicted by her own international peers and ignored by Indian historians". What do you think? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
The list is so small.There are many other prominent Kammas being left out like Mohan Babu,Mahesh Babu,Sujana Chowdary,PSG,Chandrababu Naidu,Vasireddy Venkatadri Naidu/Nayudu,Galla Jayadev,Kesineni Nani,K Haribabu,Pullela Gopichand,Ramoji Rao etc I appeal to add them under the respective section. Andhra sepoy (talk) 12:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
"The Kammas were largely reduced by the status of peasants in the post-Kakatiya period." This statement incorrectly implies that most Kammas were not involved in agriculture at an ordinary level before and during the Kakatiya era. My second point is that scholars have clearly showed that caste formation in Andhra took place during the Vijayanagara era. Finally, this is in the wrong section. I considered moving it to the post-Kakatiya era, but that section already mentions their agricultural roots with Velamas and Reddys. Would have been redundant and contradictory. That's why I struck it from the article. By LovSLif (talk) 19:15, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
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