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This is an archive of past discussions about I Have a Dream. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I can't believe that this article said that "I have a dream" was the first phrase of the speech. Whoever wrote that must have never listened to the speech or even read it. In that case, why the hell were they writing an article on it?! What's more, why did noone else pick it up? CGS 23:16, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC). This is just a term used.
Can someone please add the approximate time that the speech began? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.188.71 (talk) 23:13, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
It appears that the park ranger in the featured photo is not the ranger who was actually there. This is a whole new ranger! Check it against the video - easier seen in the Ken Burns National Park show. 70.197.1.170 (talk) 02:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)jw
hello For a long time, this page included a claim that Kennedy's reaction to the speech was simply to say, "He's good." I haven't been able to find any reference, outside Wikipedia, to this quote, so I've deleted it from the page. Please provide information, and preferably a citation, if you know of any support for this quote. —Steven G. Johnson 02:48, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)
I've included an extra verse to the speech. It may be me, but I've heard this part recited more often than any other. If you wish to remove the section, please explain here. Thanks. Dean.l 18:52:50, 2005-09-06 (UTC)
This part should be merged with Martin Luther King's page and deleted220.247.252.252 13:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I read an article once that suggested that the famous part of this speech was an afterthought; and extemporized when a supporter said something like "tell us about your dream!" I am not sure, but have an idea that the supporter had heard King speak at another gathering. Could someone who knows the truth add some detail about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.63.45.165 (talk) 15:16, January 20, 2006
I just listened to an audio recording of the speech where audience comments from individuals were audible, but did not hear anything like the above "tell them about your dream". Also, the flow did not seem to fit with the above. Could this be folklore that was able to survive before actual audio recordings were so readily available on the Internet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.188.71 (talk) 02:37, 18 May 2011 (UTC) Also the Wikipedia topic on Mahalia Jackson mentions her singing at this event, but does not mention this detail. Regardless of her success and fame, if this story were true would it not have been a singular event above all others to be mentioned in her biography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.188.71 (talk) 02:49, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Someone added this without citing any reference:
Please provide a source for this, as a quick Google search doesn't turn up any other references to this alleged quote. (I'm curious to know how Kennedy pronounced the parentheses, too!). —Steven G. Johnson 18:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I suppose it is possible the parentheses was meant to suggest that the emphasis was on the "I". Nina 137.111.47.29 (talk) 04:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Can someone please flag this to be expanded? There is so much more that could be said about this speech than what is already contained in the current versions of the article (as of Feb. 2006).
For starters, there should be a section on how the speech was received (several sources I've come across imply that the speech was not run on Television/radio stations in the south when Dr. King gave it). In addition, there needs to be greater elaboration on the speech’s impact on American race relations and on political rhetoric in general. Finally, the whole debate as to whether or not the speech is in the public domain should in and of itself be at least as long as the current version. (Note: I also made some minor edits - removed language that was derogatory, i.e. one of the greatest speeches in American History relied on the use of "platitudes" etc. - not very accurate or complimentary) —Anon 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I suppose this is considered the most famous speech by most people, so why say it is the most famous speech?--Robin.rueth 17:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The wording under debate is "the most famous public speech by Martin Luther King", not "most famous ever by anybody". I don't think it's especially remarkable to name something "most famous" (or more weakly "best known") if we're only talking about one individual's oeuvre. Of Dr. King's speeches, this is the most famous. We call "I Have a Dream" its "popular" nickname, is that something we need a scientific study for? I am not saying the article is great, but this is nitpicking. --Dhartung | Talk 02:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
The World Wide School page linked gives a different answer to the copyright issue; which is correct?—Mutt Russell, 12:15, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I came to this article to read the speech, and found it wasn't in here. Granted, there are a couple of links to it, but still - it seems wrong to write an article about how important the speech was, its style, and how it was recieved, yet neglect to put in the speech itself.Yarilo2 14:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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] <a></a> [null I have listed this page on ]Wikipedia:Request for copyright assistance. Cacophony 23:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
The CBS "decision" doesn't really count. The estate won the intial decision. CBS appealed and got a favorable ruling regarding "limted distribution" and the case was remanded for determination. The parties settled out of court. That means no decision. However the claim of copyright is certainly plausible. I do not encourage anyone to distrube this text without permission. At the same time it is incorrect to claim Copyright has been established.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 15:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
On a somewhat different subject the whole copyright discussion is not sourced. Further the line "Unlicensed use of the speech or a part of it can still be lawful in some circumstances and jurisdictions under doctrines such as fair use or fair dealing." I believe is not encyclopedic and should be deleted. If there is no objection I will delete the line. --CooliLowe (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
This is something that I've often wondered about the speech, but I'm nowhere near close enough to an expert on the civil rights movement to answer it: around 6:45 or so ("let us not not satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred," etc) I often think that King is responding to Malcolm X and his peers in the black nationalist movment. I guess what I'm getting at is that I would like to see some discussion on this page of the speech in the context of the greater civil rights movement, but I personally don't feel qualified to add anything myself. --thither 07:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Did gospel singer Mahalia Jackson either whisper or call out to King, who was about to sit down, "Tell them about your dream, Martin. Tell them about the dream."? Or did she mention it before his trip? So far this seems like urban legend, or at best, anecdotal. I've inquired of Snopes as well. NjtoTX 14:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Part of this speech is used in a song by Gwen Stefani called 'long way to go'? -Anthony- 09:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
In his autobiography (The autobiography of Martin Luther King Jr., edited by Clayborne Carson) Dr. King mentions that he never planned to say "I have a dream" but once he said it for the first time in the speech, he didn't go back to his prepared speech and spoke off-the-top of his head. Should this be mentioned more in-depth?
The text " King stopped delivering his prepared speech and started "preaching", punctuating his points with "I have a dream." The speech was drafted with the assistance of Stanley Levison and Clarence Benjamin Jones[14] in"
Makes it very confusing who wrote the speech. Did Stanley Levison and Clarence draft the "I have a dream" speech? Or did they draft the original prepared speech which Martin Luther veered off from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.135.80 (talk) 11:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I came across an amazingly blatant instance of vandalism on the first line here. I'm not sure if it'll be listed in some edit history here, but if it is, please block whoever did it. Something about a "big hairy cock" instead of "I have a dream". I edited it back to what it was supposed to say -- but there might be more instances in the rest of the article; could somebody please run a thorough check? 77.106.158.223 (talk) 16:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)Nizingur
That first sentence appears to be a popular target. I recently saw that someone had changed the first line to read: "I Don't Have a Dream". I took out the offending "don't". --Jelsova (talk) 20:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
The reference to Barack Obama is completely irrelevant and does not belong here. There is no obvious link between Obama and Martin Luther King, Jr. except perhaps skin color... and is that not exactly the wrong sort of thing to put in King's "Legacy" section? -- Jane Q. Public (talk) 20:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I do not agree with the above comment. The fact of the matter is that Obama becoming the first major party candidate for President is part of the legacy of the Civil Rights movement and definitely part of the Dream MLK Jr. had. However, I do think it is weird that it was posted that he accepted the nomination (in the past tense) before it actually happened. --96.246.82.143 (talk) 16:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I changed it to present tense. Feel free to change it to past tense after Obama accepts tonight. --CooliLowe (talk) 16:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree that Obama has nothing to do with the legacy of King's speech (no more than any other black person in a high rank, at least), so I'm going to be bold and delete it. -- wr 87.139.81.19 (talk) 11:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
To say that Obama's ascendancy is part of the legacy of the civil rights movement somewhat negates what MLK was saying. I would suggest that the MLK would have said that Obama attained the presidency because of the content of his character rather than the colour of his skin, and to attribute it to the civil rights movement sounds too much like affirmative action. This, however, is opinion. Much like the previously suggested obverse view. Nina137.111.47.29 (talk) 05:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Was King's speech broadcast live on TV back in 1963? How many spectators saw it on TV back then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.241.1 (talk) 13:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Also, does anyone know the time of day when the speech began?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.188.71 (talk) 11:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't know how to put a semi-protection lock, or get someone else to put a lock on this page, but I'm sure everyone following this page would like to see a lock to make people without an account stop practicing with this page. I have no clue what to do about it since I'm really new to Wikipedia, so could someone put a lock to stop IP address only users from editing or tell me how to do it? Williamrmck (talk) 13:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I've added a {{POV-Section}} tag to Speech title as it uses some non-neutral and WP:PEACOCK terms. The final sentence states: Thus, this speech is rightly called by that phrase which makes it so famous and so immediate to the moment of its delivery. This seems almost gushing and not at all adhering to WP:NPOV. Should the sentence be reworded or removed?
Additionally shouldn't the word preaching contained in "quotation marks" in the previous sentence have a cite? as preaching is potentially a loaded term and/or POV. Sanguis Sanies (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Why not reproduce the whole text instead of just excerpts? It's barely longer than the excerpts included anyhow. I think it's famous and important enough to be included verbatim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.158.189 (talk) 01:10, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
I believe the parts that are "similar" to Archibald Carey belong in this article. The previous reference to snopes urban legend page was removed, correctly, imo. But Snopes was a convenient reference for the text of both speeches. They are both widely known. If someone wants to quote another encyclopedia or source please do. The previous reference from Stanford made light of the comparison and the one there now from ^ ""I Have a Dream" (28 August 1963)". The Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute. http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/kingpapers/article/i_have_a_dream_28_august_1963/. Retrieved January 19, 2009. is both NPOV and not an active link,
What kind of objective encyclopedia lets someone's own foundation be the final word on if they plagiarized??
Just show the text, stop hiding facts!! 24.23.89.145 (talk) 17:57, 28 August 2010 (UTC) Ok, I used the end text from the exact same MLK encyclopedia. The text is trimmed to 1 small paragraph and the source can not be disputed without the rest of the section being questioned also. 24.23.89.145 (talk) 17:58, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I would call this the main article and the authorship issue the side article. The real main article is the one on Martin Luther King, which is locked to prevent this fairy tale view of his life from being challenged by the facts of his life. When kids are forced to write their essay on this speech, they will come here from google and not authoship issues. Still, it seems a decent compromise for these side pages. 24.23.89.145 (talk) 18:22, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
There's no rhyme or reason as to what's "key". To make an entirely unsourced section and say that parts of the speech are "key" is patently WP:OR. Quote it or don't, but at least give some reason as to what's being quoted; don't just quote willy-nilly. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 20:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
The article seemed very ad hoc and I've been trying to make a little more sense out of it. There are some new section headers now. I had split "rhetoric" and "content" but it just wasn't looking right, so now they're together in a big section on "the speech". I know how to proceed with reasonable expansions at "background", "responses", and "legacy"—I'm a little less certain on how to treat the speech itself. As discussed above, it's difficult to know what to include without outside sources. But even then, outside sources individually discuss every part of the speech, many times over, because of how commonly discussed the speech is! Maybe the solution is that all parts of the speech (which is not long) are fit at least to be discussed separately. And then a second section might talk about "rhetorical" aspects of the speech as a whole. (This is not my specialty and I will admit to being perplexed by statements like "Thus, the rhetoric of the speech provides redemption to America for its racial sins.") Any help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks & peace, groupuscule (talk) 05:07, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Moving discussion from User talk:TonyTheTiger:
You uploaded File:I Have A Dream sample.ogg a while back. Is there a reason that it ends in mid-phrase? I don't know how to crop the audio myself, but it seems like it would make more sense to end it around 25 seconds than the current 30 seconds. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 03:03, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello there! I am thinking about expanding this article to FA so we can feature it as a TFA on August 28, 2013, the 50th anniversary of the speech. We are using the Gettysburg Address as an FA model. Here's what we need to do:
All are welcome to assist in this process. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
King's ancestors should be mentioned in greater detail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.174.122 (talk) 11:14, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
203.199.198.252 posted this comment on 22 January 2014 (view all feedback).
I expected the whole contents of the speech both in form of text and audio
Any thoughts?
BigBureaucracy (talk) 21:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC) You can find both in the "Links" section at the bottom of the page.
nytimes / Michael Gonchar writes:
Background: The speech that the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered on Aug. 28, 1963, [...] was not the speech he had prepared in his notes and stayed up nearly all night writing.
Dr. King was the closing speaker [...], and the “Dream” speech [...] almost never happened. The march itself almost never happened, as David Brooks writes, because the Urban League, the N.A.A.C.P. and the 'Southern Christian Leadership Conference' either chose to opt out or were focusing their energy elsewhere
before the events in Birmingham, Ala., in May 1963, with fire hoses and snapping dogs turned on protesters, helped reignite the call for a national march. The speech almost never happened because Dr. King didn’t think he had time to say all he wanted to say in the five minutes he was allotted — at the end of a long, hot summer day before the crowds were ready to disperse and go home.
"the events in Biormingham" are described in the article May 1963
I think some of that should be added to the article. Someone / arguments against that ? --Neun-x (talk) 10:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
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change is to was in first sentence 92.16.63.181 (talk) 22:55, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Ran across this today, which talks about a speech which Dr. King gave at Booker T. Washington High in Rocky Mount, NC, on November 27, 1962. "King's speech at the North Carolina school -- at 55 minutes -- was longer than the Lincoln Memorial address. But the refrain was very similar -- in large chunks verbatim." The speech was recorded and was just recently restored & digitized: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/us/north-carolina-mlk-jr-i-have-a-dream-recording/index.html Gmporr (talk) 10:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Question: Are the quotations where Bible verses are mentioned, meant to be quotes from Dr. King's speech, or quotes from the Bible? The way I read it, I was assuming the latter. But the passage in Isaiah does not start with "I have a dream". Removing those 4 words and just using "Every valley shall be exalted..." would be appropriate if the quote is meant to be from Isaiah rather than Dr. King, but if it's meant to be from the speech, then that section should probably be made a bit more clear. Gmporr (talk) 04:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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Perhaps a slightly more interesting legacy than from an "Australian alternative comedy rock band" is the 1988 single 'Truth Of Self Evidence' by Reese & Santonio, i.e. Kevin Saunderson and Santonio Echols. This classic techno track is built around two voice samples from King's speech.
Refs: - http://www.discogs.com/Reese-Santonio-Truth-Of-Self-Evidence/release/1137702 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Ps6oil7OU
Schallwelle (talk) 20:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
There should be a section on Prathia Hall and her inspiring many of the words and concepts of the speech, including "I Have a Dream", in Dr. King's unwritten portion of the complete speech. She gave her speech in September, 1962 at a burned down church, and King first used it in November of that year. There is a good source on her pagewhich quotes Michael Eric Dyson in the Chicago Sun-Times, and Dyson also used the data in a book. Personal note, I was the first to publicly release this information, during a talk at an academic conference on the 1960s held in 1993, and actually was the first to interview Ms. Hall about the topic, so probably someone else should add it into the page. Thanks. Randy Kryn 14:40, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
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