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This is an archive of past discussions about Heavy metal music. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
Should we add hard rock on stylistic origins? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 19:42, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
http://teachrock.org/lesson/the-roots-of-heavy-metal/ Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 20:48, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Well, you could check the list of all reliable sources in Wikipedia. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 00:31, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Here’s another link: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Heavy_metal Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 00:37, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Sixty Minute Limit - Please stop changing every instance of "metal" to "heavy metal". It is unnecessary. We dont' need to spell it out every single time, in the same way that we don't need to mention a person's full name every single time we mention. Again, please resist urges like this. This article is a WP:FA. It's not going to have minor writing style issues like that. Sergecross73 msg me 12:15, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
I only do it because saying only “metal” is colloquial. But I’ll stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sixty Minute Limit (talk • contribs) 12:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and you could tell me this in the my talk page, not the heavy metal music talk page. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 12:19, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
And also, should their be PMRC’s dirty fifteen? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 11:59, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
The PMRC was a organization that existed in the 1980’s that wanted labels to warn parents of the material in an album, it had heavy criticism because it was accused of preventing freedom of speech, most of the artist where heavy metal musicians (8 artist were heavy metal musicians). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sixty Minute Limit (talk • contribs) 15:31, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
In 1985, the PMRC also released what they called the "Filthy Fifteen", a list of the 15 songs they found most objectionable.[1]
This is the filthy fifteen, it also contains the reasons that it was in the chart (though most are incorrect because of the PMRC’s tendencies to over react on messages the songs had). You can make more research of your own by going to PMRC’s Wikipedia page. But if you have a question about it, I can help.
# | Artist | Song title | Lyrical content |
---|---|---|---|
1 | Prince | "Darling Nikki" | Sex/Masturbation |
2 | Sheena Easton | "Sugar Walls" | Sex |
3 | Judas Priest | "Eat Me Alive" | Sex |
4 | Vanity | "Strap On 'Robbie Baby'" | Sex |
5 | Mötley Crüe | "Bastard" | Violence/Language |
6 | AC/DC | "Let Me Put My Love Into You" | Sex |
7 | Twisted Sister | "We're Not Gonna Take It" | Violence |
8 | Madonna | "Dress You Up" | Sex |
9 | W.A.S.P. | "Animal (Fuck Like a Beast)" | Sex/Language |
10 | Def Leppard | "High 'n' Dry (Saturday Night)" | Drug and alcohol use |
11 | Mercyful Fate | "Into the Coven" | Occult |
12 | Black Sabbath | "Trashed" | Drug and alcohol use |
13 | Mary Jane Girls | "In My House" | Sex |
14 | Venom | "Possessed" | Occult |
15 | Cyndi Lauper | "She Bop" | Sex/Masturbation |
References
But we could that 8 of the artist were heavy metal musicians. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
And should Canada be considerd a regional scene. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 16:00, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
I don’t think Germany should be in regional scenes without Switzerland. Germany is obviously huge in terms of heavy metal bands (such as Rammstein, Destruction, Tankard, Sodom, Helloween, Kreator, arguably Scorpions, etc.) , but Germany redirects to Teutonic Thrash Metal, wish was a regional scene that included Switzerland (with having very little influential heavy metal bands, only having Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, and Coroner). Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh and in addition to nu metal and grindcore, crossover thrash omits guitar solos, should I add it? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm looking for sources, but meanwhile, since Poland and the Netherlands have heavy metal sections in the countrie's music pages, then we could add them. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 17:44, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
There should also be a section on extreme metal. Including bands such as Sarcófago, Amon Amarth or others. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 12:07, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
I know it’s an umbrella term, but it’s better to creat that section that has “sub-sections” on the genres that extreme metal covers. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 13:16, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh, if speed metal doesn’t, should we create one? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 13:18, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
In the speed metal page it doesn’t say that it is a extreme genre of heavy metal, and I know it is an extreme genre of heavy metal, should we add it? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 13:24, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
And also, should Light metal music be in derivative forms. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 13:28, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Then in subgenres. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 17:05, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Issan has found some sources that say light metal is a subgenre of heavy metal. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 17:06, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, then. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 18:58, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Poland and the Netherlands have heavy metal sections in their music pages, we should add them.Sixty Minute Limit (talk)
China also has a heavy metal page. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 02:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Added those three countries, since you don’t need a source for that. They already had sections in their countrie’s music pages. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 19:02, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Should southern metal have it’s own page? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, let me find one. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 01:18, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
Well, I wish Last.fm was a reliable source. I couldn’t find one that went in depth on it. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 01:32, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
At least for now. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 01:32, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
Light metal is only getting deleted by anonymous users, no users. The other time it got deleted’s summary is extremely similar to the summary done today, I think the editor in question isn’t the same person, but with other IP addresses, he might be sock puppetring or his IP address changes often. But who knows? I strongly suggest light metal be protected. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 20:04, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
But what about my theory in sock puppetry, he might be, and I’m not telling for that user to be blocked, put it is probable. If the edit summaries are extremely similar (such as what happend today), it is a probable reason for him to be accused, but I know that isn’t enough, but it’s better to be on the look out for sock puppetry. But who knows? He might be just begging. I know is just speculation but still, I’ll be on the look out. Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 00:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73: Hey so, is it alright if I added that New Orleans scen3 to local scenes?
@Sergecross73:@Issan Sumisu: I’m adding this image
it’s already on Euronymous’ page.
SML-Growl n’ Screetch 00:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
I added grindcore as Ann example of a genre that omits guitar solos. Is that fine? Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 11:53, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
an* Sixty Minute Limit (talk) 11:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
This[1] says that grunge is a fusion genre of alternative rock, punk rock, and heavy metal, should we move the genre to the fusion genres section? Because grunge is currently in derritative forms. ~SML • TP 22:36, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73: And it’s also unsourced. ~SML • TP 22:39, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
@Issan Sumisu: Same as said above. ~SML • TP 23:23, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73: I looked, I saw no reference saying that grunge was only a subgenre of alternative rock. ~SML • TP 01:25, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
@Sixty Minute Limit: Maybe I'm wrong here, but I assume that a fusion genre is a mix of two edit different, distinct styles, whereas if there's more than three then it is a sub-genre of one, and derivatives of the other two. I could be completely wrong though.
@Issan Sumisu: Well, atleast for me I consider a fusion genre to be a subgenre of two or more genres. And derivative forms to be related genres. ~SML • TP 10:22, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73:@Issan Sumisu: This source[2] calls post-metal a “style” (wich is used interchangeably with genre or subgenre) of heavy metal, and I’ve never seen a reliable nor unreliable source saying that post-metal is a derivative form of heavy metal music, if someone can direct me to one, please do so. ~SML • TP 12:33, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
@Sixty Minute Limit: Yeah, I'd definitely say post-metal is a sub-genre, and that source supports it. A lot of people just have a misconception that everything with "post" in the title isn't a sub-genre of it, when it clearly is. Like, post-rock is definitely rock, just like how post-black metal is black metal.
@Issan Sumisu: True. Well I’m going to put post-metal in the subgenre box with the source.
Now there’s no derivative forms, hardcore punk is probably one but that wouldn’t be sourced. ~SML • TP 14:03, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
@Issan Sumisu:@Sergecross73: The change may be undiscussed, but it is realiably sourced, Sabbatino had little reason to delete garage rock. ~SML • TP 14:08, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
I think it should be mentioned somewhere in this page.. defenetly not in countries but in other topics maybe. ~SML • TP 03:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Anyone? The page has been quite, that’s not that normal, especially here... ~SML • TP 15:47, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
I found this talking about their scene. Should it be put in the local scenes section in the infobox? ~SML • TP 21:26, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Wouldn’t it better to have the HatNote go to heavy metal? ~SML • TP 22:04, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
Blackened death metal has a a page. It should be mentioned in the infobox atleast. ~SML • TP 22:42, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
It think the Women in metal section might be better to put in History section, as a subsection. ~SML • TP 19:38, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Rant not helping article |
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Assume you're someone who just heard about heavy metal music, and you're going to wikipedia to see what it's all about. What should such an article include and applied to the current situation, not include? The answer is simple, it should give an overview of the topic at hand, including its history, defining traits, and a list of bands that can be sited as heavy metal. The topic of "The importance of women in heavy metal" is not an overview idea or even an after thought. It just plain makes no sense to include such a specific topic at the overview level. Because of this, I think it should be removed, or at least given its own page if it's really that important of a topic. Either way, it should be removed from this specific page. 216.167.232.155 (talk) 15:58, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
That’s controversial, the snowflakes are not going to back you up, but at least I’m neutral until there’s a better argument. ~SML • TP 16:01, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
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IMO "Women in heavy metal" fits better in the subculture article. Otherwise, I think we can just put the paragraphs into each related parts of the Heavy Metal music article. It wasn't like females were never welcomed in the metal world, you know. --- Vc06697 13:50PM 24 Sep 2018 (Hongkong time) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vc06697 (talk • contribs) 05:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
Trap metal and biker metal have pages, can they be in the infobox? ~SML • TP 17:45, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
Heavy Metal was not a widely used term to describe a musical genre until after the adult fantasy science fiction magazine Heavy Metal came out with their animated film of the same name in 1981. Not all the bands associated with the film could even be considered hard rock , Devo and Stevie Nicks come to mind and Journey BUT Black Sabbath with The Mob Rules was and i believe this association is when the term started becoming widely used to describe the musical genre. The imagery of Dio with horns up \m/ compiled with the term ...yeah that's when all hell broke loose. That's the way I remember it. (HA)
His Assholiness (talk) 04:04, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Metal has been part of my life since at least 1970, so I'm not "a hater" (or whatever Oprahesque term is presently en vogue) when I say this article is far too long for its own good. It's become so sprawling that it's essentially suffocating under the weight of the bloat. People wander in and paste their trivia just about anywhere they happen to be.
By Wikipedia standards, it's at least twice its manageable size, therefore difficult both to read through and to access via mobile devices. I'd like to see suggestions as to how it could be productively split.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 07:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
The term 'heavy metal' refers not to all varieties of metal, from black metal to symphonic metal. but to a specific subgenre with a 'classic' sound. A taxonomy of music is incomplete if there is no metal subgenre to encompass classic bands like Led Zeppelin and newer bands such as Pentakill. Additionally, bands who combine heavy metal with other subgenres such as Unleash the Archers could not do so if heavy metal were not a subgenre of its own. Information on Metal and Heavy Metal should be split between two separate pages.
09:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.228.211.200 (talk)
The genre's lyrics and performance styles are sometimes associated with aggression and machismo
Is this sentence really needed at the very beginning of the article? Does someone really believe that the topic of machismo or aggression is in heavy metal. Actually Heavy metal themes tend to normally revolve around fantasy, swords and dragons, where is the machismo there? About the aggression, can be talk about a lot of musical genres. The sentence is written by someone who doesn't know anything about metal and want to discredit it.
I proceed to remove it.
--NowForEurope (talk) 09:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Does Women in heavy metal need to be a complete section in the page. Can’t it be a subsection? ~ ~SML • TP 22:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
The US needs to have a credit in the country of origin section. The History section of the page itself mentions tons of American proto-metal and early heavy metal acts as being formative to the genre (Blue Cheer, Jimi Hendrix, Steppenwolf, Coven, Iron Butterfly, Grand Funk Railroad, Mountain, Vanilla Fudge, Alice Cooper, MC5, The Stooges, Quiet Riot, Blue Öyster Cult, Sir Lord Baltimore, Kiss, Aerosmith...) and the originating genres (hard rock, acid rock, psychedelic rock, progressive rock) all have American influence themselves. There are noted American influences in metal going back to The Kingsmen and Screamin’ Jay Hawkins. Black Sabbath didn’t single-handedly invent the genre, and of the notable proto-influences, only two were from the UK (Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple). I realize those two bands are very popular, but they clearly did not entirely invent the genre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:400:F535:5186:BBB2:72B3:7608 (talk) 17:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
So, did this gain any traction? I see a single comment of agreement, but you can’t say that Heavy Metal is entirely British whatsoever. You have information on this very page that contradicts that.
Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and Black Sabbath are no more “heavy metal acts” than their inspirations Blue Cheer, Vanilla Fudge, and Iron Butterfly. All of whom are American. Blue Öyster Cult. Who are definitely metal and are one of the more notable bands in the genre. Dust, Mountain, Steppenwolf, Alice Cooper, even Jimi Hendrix, and the early influence of bands like The Kingsmen and Screamin’ Jay Hawkins.
Again, all of the influencing genres are American. We have credits for the UK on genres that it has much less to do with, and vice versa, you cannot say Heavy Metal was entirely invented in the United Kingdom. It was not. Drytalkplease98 (talk) 15:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! Drytalkplease98 (talk) 15:50, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
I’m not sure what there is to deliberate here?
There are other genre pages on Wikipedia in which countries like the United Kingdom get co-credits on genres like proto-punk with much less influence than the US has on heavy metal.
You have sources that confirm the American influence. You discuss the influence of a vast number of American bands in the article. EVERY SINGLE INFLUENCING GENRE LISTED has American involvement.
You can’t say it was invented in the United Kingdom, because it wasn’t. That’s about as honest as saying The Beatles invented Rock music. Drytalkplease98 (talk) 13:41, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
More sources literally cited on this page that DIRECTLY relate to originating locations, as well as American bands that influenced the genre, are sources numbered [133], [134], [135], [140], [143], [144], [145], [150], [151]...need I say more? From this very page. The entire history page incessantly discusses the American-British involvement in the creation and influencing of the genre. Drytalkplease98 (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Per Ghmyrtle, I reverted the page to the pre-2017 wording. Drytalkplease98 (talk) 13:12, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Sergecross, the edit to remove the US from the infobar was made without any issue, and ever since then, that edit has been defended.
The source already given for the sentence in which the originating countries are stated never cites specifically the US or the UK, but it cites tons of primarily British and American influences. That is more than enough.
If it hasn’t been cited that the United Kingdom, specifically, originated Heavy Metal, it shouldn’t be in the info bar either, by your standards. Grafton56 (talk) 18:43, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
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