Loading AI tools
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
>BRIAN]] • 2006-01-15 23:21
Also, "For example, Houdini's name plus Bessies' name and subtracting Houdini's favourite number is equal to eleven, (7+5-2=11)" doesn't count as logical. Ezradf 05:29, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Was Whitehead on the boxing team at McGill? If not the "boxer" reference should be removed. Cafe Nervosa 01:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Why is is considered relevant to this article to mention that Sidney Hollis Radner, the person holding the official seance each year, is a "Jewish Homosexual" ? This should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.122.135 (talk) 15:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
in the section listing the references throughout the years, for the year 2001 there are several references taking place not in the year 2001, such as the naming of buster keaton, and the founding of a museum. someone should fix it. 76.22.61.43 00:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I remember clearly reading somewhere that Houdini picked the name "Harry" in honor of Harry Kellar, who was a famous magician before him. Should we change this in the article?<<Coburn_Pharr>> 17:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Moved a soliciation for aid in proving Jaqueline Beaumont's claims here in order to preserve NPOV in this article.
The submitter added that all information from that interview is reserved, which is rather ambiguous. Does this mean that we can't use it for the Wikipedia? I removed it from the article, but put it back if you disagree. (Though IMO it doesn't fit into the existing article very well.) -- CYD
I agree with CYD: it doesn't fit. The paragraph submitted by Lir is nice and succinct, and should be sufficient, don't you think? Stormwriter
is it true that harry houdini was the first person to make a successful plane flight over the australian continent? my info says it was on 3/6/1910.
I don't know about the date, but it is true according to Houdini!!! by Kenneth Silverman, which also has pictures of the event.
Houdini was invited by the Aerial League Of Australia, although some had claimed to have been the first to fly in Australia, there was doubts on the truth of these claims. He flew his plane, a Voisin Biplane with his name painted on its side on the morning of 31 March 1910 at Diggers Rest a small town north of the city of Melbourne. He crashed once before flying at a high of 30 metres around a 3 km course and landing safely. There is a plaque at the site commemorating that event, also a street around the towns largest park is named Houdini Rd. added by ETKwriter 2009
So, why does it say "Ehrich Weiss (born Weiss Erik in the native Hungarian)", as it using "Ehrich" in the English, and "Erik" in the Hungarian? Which is the correct spelling for Houdini's real name? nroose Talk 10:31, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
His tomb says WEISS prominently. 'Weisz' would have been the Hungarian transliteration as sz is pronounced like English s and s like English sh, for example, Budapest is pronounced boo-duh-pesht. There is, as far as I know, no double s (ss) in Hungarian, so 'Weiss' would have looked strange there, though the family was of German origin.--86.91.42.242 19:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Guys, PLEASE! Everytime I look at this page I see a different spelling. Here are the facts. Houdini was born as Erik Weisz. I'm looking at a copy of his actual birth certificate reprinted in The Houdini Birth Certificate Committee Report (SAM 1972). The most reliable biography, Houdini!!! The Career of Ehrich Weiss by Ken Silverman says on page 8: "Born Erik Weisz in Budapest on March 24, 1974."
As to Ehrich -- I have no idea why people are dropping the first "h". There are dozens of examples of "Ehrich" in Houdini's own hand. To see one, check out page 178 in The Original Houdini Scrapbook by Gibson.
Born: Erik Weisz
Name adopted in America: Ehrich Weiss
--Zencato (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Good. That's settled. Now for a further question. If he was born into the Weisz family in Hungary, how come we're saying:
Huh? Surely, regardless of its German origin as Weiss (or Weiß), all his family members had a surname spelled Weisz in Hungary. Or are we talking about the name they had after they left Hungary? -- JackofOz (talk) 13:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Folks -
Houdini was born as "Erich Weisz" in Budapest - when his father, Rabbi Meyer immigrated to the U.S. the family name was changed to "Weiss".
Also there is no name Ehrich in german language - and Erik is the nordic form of the name Erich (like Erich Honecker, for example) (: 78.50.50.190 (talk) 09:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
p.s. when little erich was born, he and his jewish family and all fellow hungarians were citizens of the austrian empire. - they all spoke german (in the family they spoke "jiddisch"). the birth certificate was in german. and his name was german, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.50.50.190 (talk) 09:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
p.p.s. dieser unleidige ehrich.... take a look at the german wkipedia - erich. believe me guys this ehrich was a mistake (just like the weiss - he changed the last letter to z when the family immigrated, in the bc it was weisz). there has never been - is not - and hopefully will never be a name spelled ehrich. btw - eric is the english form of erik (erich) not the hungarian one or so. i´ll list the foreign forms for eric:
* dänisch: Erik * englisch: Eric, Aric, Erick, Erik, Aerick * estnisch: Eerik, Erik * finnisch: Erkki, Eero, Eerikki * französisch: Éric * deutsch: Erek, Erik, Erick, Erich, Eric * isländisch: Eiríkur * italienisch: Erico * japanisch: エリック (Erikku), エリク (Eriku) * katalanisch: Èric * koreanisch: 에릭 (Erik) * niederländisch: Erik * norwegisch: Erik (bokmaal), Eirik (nynorsk) * philippinisch: Ayic * polnisch: Eryk, Irek * portugiesisch: Erico * russisch: Эрик (Arik) * slowakisch: Erik * spanisch: Eric * schwedisch: Erik, Eric * tschechisch: Erik * ukrainisch: Ерiк * weißrussisch: Эрык (Eryk)
(german wiki) bye 78.50.50.190 (talk) 09:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
to punch him in the abdomen in order to demonstrate but Houdini
NPOV? Scott197827
Can you elaborated on that please? What are you tring to say.--mexaguil 02:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
As if his name is not enough trouble, the father is listed as "Herman Mayer Weiss" in the pbs.org article for the American Experience. How about if I lokk for him in the census and that way we can have a third opinion. It will be the father telling what he prefered to be called. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 02:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
His father's name was Mayer Samuel Weiss. Herman (sometimes called "Armin") was his half brother. That American Experience article has mixed the two. As much as I respect PBS, that American Experience article is a poor source for info. --Zencato (talk) 18:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
If someone wrapped him up with duct tape from the toes to his neck, would he be able to free himself? 201.23.64.2 23:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know (and I'm not sure if it's in the article), he actually challenged people to trap him in different ways. - some guy
Is it really neccessary to say that he was "one of the" most famous magicians or escapists of all time? Didn't he pioneer the genre to the fame it's at today? I just don't see why you don't just say THE most famous. - just some guy
Well, there are some people who can challenge you on that. ONE OF THE BEST is an opinion open for debate.- Random passer-byer
No, there's no debate. Who else could possibly be the "most famous magician or escapist of all time"? There's no other plausible contender. Tom NM (talk) 19:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I made a few corrections and additions to the Houdini article, but I know these are topics of debate, so I thought I should give my sources.
The first is the correct spelling of Houdini's birth name. I've changed Erik Weiss it to Erik Weisz. I get this from The Houdini Birth Research Committee's Report (1972), which includes a photo copy of the actual birth certificate found in Hungary. As to the spelling of his name after the family came to the U.S., I don't know where that "Erich" spelling came from as there are numerous examples in Houdini's own hand of the "Ehrich" spelling.
I was also able to fill in the birth dates of Houdini's parents from "Houdini: Escape Into Legend" by Manny Weltman, which is THE best reference for all information on Houdini's early life. I'm using the birthdate that appears on Mayer Weiss' tombstone, even though Weltman notes his marriage certificate shows him to be of an age that would suggest he was born earlier. But let's go with the tombstone. (BTW, that same marriage certificate calls Mayer Weiss a "soapmaker", not "Rabbi", but we'll leave that alone for now.)
I've also corrected information on who exactly witnessed the dressing room assault in Montréal. No way was Bess an eyewitness as the article originally stated (maybe this came from the 1976 TV movie which put Bess in the room). Houdini withholding this incident from Bess is well documented. The two witnesses where Jacques Price and Sam Smilovitz (sometimes called Jack Price and Sam Smiley). Both gave accounts of the incident to insurance companies and their accounts generally agreed. A fantastic source on all this is The Man Who Killed Houdini by Don Bell, who tracked down both Smiley and Price, and also uncovered exactly who Whitehead was and what happened to him.
I've also fleshed out the section on Houdini's movies, adding the titles of his films. The original article incorrectly stated that the Houdini Picture Corporation made three films instead of two. I know some list The Soul of Bronze as a HPC Houdini film, but while Houdini appears to have copyrighted this title (hence it appears in some film encyclopedias), there's no evidence the film was ever made. Of course, I would love nothing more to be proven wrong and discover there is a "lost" Houdini film out there!
I also changed the title of the 1976 Paul Michael Glaser biopic from The Great Houdini to The Great Houdinis. This was the title on the movie as it first aired in 1976. For the 1977 repeat, the title was changed to The Great Houdini for some reason. If you need evidence, the novelization carries the original Great Houdinis title. Also on my website, Houdini Lives, I have a pic of the original TV Guide add.
And that's it for now. :) --Zencato 23:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I've heard him referred to as one before, but I don't know that its true. Is it? --Havermayer 16:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• No. In the Haldeman-Julius Monthly of October 1925 (one year before Houdini's death) Marcet Haldeman-Julius wrote: "Houdini himself, shrewd, clear-headed, refusing to accept any substitutes for truth is, I submit, of the very stuff of which agnostics are fashioned. But I do not presume to doubt his statement that he believes both in God and in a Hereafter."
No - Houdini was an active member of the Masonic fraternity (mbr of St. Cecile Lodge in New York City largely made up of men in show business) and had a Masonic memorial service performed at his death. One of the requisites for mbrship in the fraternity is to have a belief in a Supreme Being; an atheist cannot become a Mason, then or now. (i.e. a Mason may be Christian, jew or Moslem but NOT an atheist). An aside: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was also a Mason (Dr. Watson's character is a 'Mason' in the Sherlock Holmes series) GAE66 00:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
many publications list his birthday as April 6th ... ?
Houdini's birthday was March 24. However, he celebrated it on April 6. In a letter to his brother (reprinted in The Original Houdini Scrapbook, page 174), Houdini says April 6 is his "adopted birthday" as that is the day his mother always wrote to him. --Zencato (talk) 18:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
There was a story today referring to a new biography of Houdini, claiming he was a spy who used his world-traveling magic acts as merely a cover for his spying operations (for Scotland Yard). The story can be found here. I wanted to add this to the page, but I didn't read the book, and these MSN and Yahoo news pages expire after a while, so I didn't. Perhaps someone can read the book and modify the page to include this new interesting claim.--PsychoticClown 08:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
{{cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (help)
I think the book also implies that Houdini may have been murdered by these spiritualists that he was debunking. He also got a lot of tail and possibly went both ways. I want to pick this book up, sounds really interesting.
Detailed footnotes for The Secret Life of Houdini can be found here: http://conjuringarts.org/houdini/index.shtml -- I deleted some text that claimed the book had no primary source material. The sections on the spying allegations and debunking spiritualists still needs some rewriting, though. 24.188.182.235 09:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
He has appeared as a fictional character in a range of media. Putting this in the "Legacy" section would start to bloat it and experience shows that it starts to make some editors nervous. I recently started: Nikola Tesla in popular culture and Mark Twain in popular culture and have proposed a Thomas Edison one. It strikes me that it would make sense to have one entitled: Harry Houdini in popular culture. I'll start digging around for examples and post them here (the immediate one that springs to mind is Necronauts) but I also wanted to open the floor for other people to add ideas too. (Emperor 19:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC))
The section under 'Magic' about planes and movies really doesn't fit the section and should moved. Perhaps to a new section?65.100.48.231 16:55, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Magic - Aviation - Movies should all be their own sections. They were originally, but the formatting vanished and they've all run together. It's confusing. I've recreated the sections. --Zencato (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Geoff Barker 23:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)== Redundancies ==
In the first paragraph under Birth and Emigration, I find it a bit redundant to include both
"(although he claims to have been born in Appleton, Wisconsin but his birth certificate was later found after his death)"
and
"From 1900 onwards Houdini claimed in interviews to have been born in Appleton, Wisconsin on April 6, 1874, but his Hungarian birth certificate was uncovered by researchers after his death."
Also, under the Magic section, I don't think we need
"In 1910, while on a tour of Australia, Houdini brought with him a primitive bi-plane with which he made the first controlled powered aeroplane flight in Australia, at Diggers Rest, Victoria."
and
"He also bought a plane and was the first person to fly in Australia."
I've tried to change both of these, but the article keeps getting reverted. 67.150.212.44 07:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Never mind. Looks like the changes stayed after all.67.150.212.44 07:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Along the same lines, does this sentence even make sense? "Houdini initially focused oral sex acts and at one point grew a penis on his forehead." It makes no sense in isolation and has nothing whatsoever to do with the text following it in the second paragraph under "Magic." Sounds like the result of someone's prank.
I think there is an incorrect spelling of the aeroplane Houdini flew, it should be "Voison" not "Vioson" Geoff Barker 23:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)Geoff Barker
Please be clear on Houdini's siblings; first some of his brothers are mentioned, then a sister, then a name which hasn't come up before (Willi?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.163.217.119 (talk) 14:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC).
Houdini was featured at least once as a character in the Dark Horse comic book, Spawn.
Should other fictional accounts be included?
69.218.8.5 23:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC) Tony 12/23/6
I am just an amateur puzzler, magician and historian. Still, looking into this book briefly, (I am reading something else now) I have observed selective materials which indicate sloopy history, sensationalism, innuendo, fiction and a love of conspiracy. If it is in one place, most likely it is in others. Larry Sloman, one of the two authors, is best known for his collaborations with "shock jock" Howard Stern and David Blaine.User:Kazuba 8 Jan 2007
Can somebody double-check the spelling on this or provide a citation? A Google search on this phrase yields exactly two results: this article, and a strange comment on a YouTube video. Capedia 03:27, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Someone with the IP address 213.106.232.34 has added a strange story that is obviously nothing other than vandalism. I've taken the liberty of reverting the page to remove this (I forgot to sign in. My IP in the history is 72.72.201.246). Popisfizzy 18:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello all. I'm a Houdini collector, historian, a member of the Magic Castle, and I run a Houdini website (www.houdini-lives.com). I would strongly encourage the use of Kenneth Silverman's “Houdini!!! The Career of Enrich Weiss” as a primarily source for information and fact checking. Information on Houdini, even info contained in encyclopedias, can be wildly inaccurate, and myths about Houdini continually find their way into modern biographies. I really feel the Silverman book is the best, most accurate Houdini biography ever written. Silverman himself is a Pulitzer Prize winning biographer. The book is also meticulously soured in a second book, "Notes on Houdini!!!" I consider it my "Houdini Bible.” --Zencato 19:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've contributed a section on Houdini's movie career, which I consider my specialty. I also think Houdini's brief but noteworthy aviation career deserves its own section, but I will leave this to others (or for myself on another rainy day). I also built up the Wiki article on Houdini’s Chinese Water Torture Cell. --Zencato 00:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Under the 'Magic' subheading it reads, 'In 1892, Weiss became a professional rapist'; really?
I did a little more work in the Magic section. --Zencato 23:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
The wikipedia entry for Moe Howard contradicts this and claims it is true.
stephen_trentalange 04:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I've messed up trying to undo a long string of vandalism entry by entry. I don't know how to do a single undo back to the last clean entry (guess I need a lesson). Can someone please fix? Thanks. Sorry.
--Zencato 16:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
UPDATE: Okay, I think I fixed it. --Zencato 17:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
The entry describes Houdini as "Hungarian", but he left when he was four. Why is it not "Hungarian-American" or just "American"?
I agree. Houdini was an American, where he lived all but the first 4 years of his life and was a US citizen. Biographies should describe nationality by citizenship, especially in cases where the subject moved as s very young age. Entry changed to Hungarian-American pending consensus of whether he should be considered solely American of Hungarian descent, or Hungarian-American. Defer to the latter since he was born in Hungary. Piperdown 12:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
eeehm...he was an austro-hungarian. born in buapest ruled by the austrian emperor and hungarian king Franz-Josef (u know, k&k and stuff^^).
what about: H.H. was an american magician of austro-hungary origin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.50.50.190 (talk) 10:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the second paragraph, was Conan-Doyal once H's friend? The paragraph seems to suggest so.
In the third paragraph, I can't tell what is goind on. Did Ford claim to have received a message from H and his mother? Did he claim to have the code that H gave to Bess? Was the "code" made public at some point? It is all very, very unclear. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lporrel@yahoo.com (talk • contribs) 01:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
Read all about it: - Throw 03:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
why is this article locked? i read the discussion and found no explanation why it is locked. παράδοξος reality is Wikipedia παράδοξος 04:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
deleted the obvious, sorry παράδοξος 04:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
My vote is to re-lock this article. Of all the articles I watch, this receives the most vandalism.--Zencato (talk) 19:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Some suggestions from reading the book Secret Life:
Could his wife had [i]really[/i] kept a candle lit for ten years? How big would this candle have to be? Fr0 03:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Hey gang. I did a little work on the page. First, I fleshed out that timeline with info on his career. I thought it was silly to have a timeline that was basically a summery of birth and immigration facts and then, bang, death. While I didn't cite my additions, these are all very well-known major events in Houdini's life and can be confirmed via any biography. Next, I added the info about the famous 1936 final Houdini Seance to the Legacy section. I'm wondering if this section shouldn't be rearranged chronologically by year? It's a bit of a mess right now. Last, I added a new section on Houdini's appearance and voice. Hope this is okay. I do find something like this of interest and value when the subject lived before sound film. I especially think the info on his voice recording is very interesting. --Zencato 20:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I've done a bit more. I added a section on his aviation career and also on the Mirror challenge, which is possibly the most famous single escape of his career. --Zencato 00:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Currently, an entry in the Legacy section states: 1985 - Will Wheaton played Houdini in Young Harry Houdini, a made for TV movie which aired on ABC as a "Disney Sunday Movie." The film also featured Jeffrey DeMunn as the adult Houdini. DeMunn first played Houdini in the film version of, Ragtime.[25]
Will Wheaton is a musician; Wil Wheaton is the actor who starred in the movie.
Mliguori333 11:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I heard that his clavicle was not attached to his sternum, which allowed him to escape from straight-jackets. I believe this is actually a relatively common congenital condition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tkjazzer (talk • contribs) 06:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I could be wrong but I have doubts about Houdini being
"a skeptic and investigator of Female Breasts"
Perhaps this should be looked into. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.98.58 (talk) 20:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Can someone verify the "appendix being on the left side" claim made in the Guardian article currently being cited as a source here? http://www.houdinitribute.com/img/deathcertif.jpg certainly doesn't show any such claim that I can discern, but maybe there's an "extended version" in one of the bios/conspiracy books. Even if it were true, it could have been situs inversus or situs ambiguus, although that will require a separate citation to include in the article. -- nae'blis 16:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I've heard a rumor somewhere that Harry Houdini, before dying in the hospital, told his wife "If there is a way to contact you from the other side, I will find it."
Is this true?
71.171.126.104 (talk) 22:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Harry houdini is cooooollll man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.199.189.1 (talk) 13:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
say that Houdini will be remembered more for his adventure in aviation and not as big escaper and magician seems to me such a stupid conclusion...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.99.243 (talk) 06:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Houdini is the one who said that back in 1910 and I think it's made clear in the article that it's now an ironic statement. --Zencato (talk) 18:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Someone changed the location of the Detroit theater where Houdini gave his last performance from the Garrick to the Majestic. This is wrong. It was the Garrick, and I've changed it back (check page 511 in The Secret Life of Houdini by Kalush and Soloman if you want a hard source). I think what is happening is someone on eBay has been selling mock-up theater tickets for "Houdini's last performance" and on the tickets he's put Majestic. Either that person doesn't know the name of the actual theater, or choose Majestic for artistic purposes. But it was the Garrick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencato (talk • contribs) 18:27, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that the guy apparently who made these handcuffs is shown on Wikipedia,as coming from Hertfordshire in England. I always thought Nathaniel Hart was from Birmingham. How can I find out who put Hertfordshire on the Wikipedia listings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.43.54.142 (talk) 11:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I've changed it back to Birmingham. The Mirror account clearly states the maker was from Birmingham. --Zencato (talk) 21:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
The BBC broadcasted a radio special on infamous residents of Hertfordshire and had an entire segment on Nathaniel Hart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.158.223 (talk) 14:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Under the category Death there is a contradiction. Houdini’s last performance claims "Houdini died of peritonitis from a ruptured appendix at 1:26 p.m. in Room 401 on October 31 (Halloween), 1926, at the age of 52". Houdini refused medical attention claims "He died at 4:35pm.[26]". What is correct? 193.213.31.248 (talk) 15:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
1:26pm is the time on the death certificate. --Zencato (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Under the category "Death" should the first mention of peritonitis be hyperlinked to its article []? --Getthebikes (talk) 18:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)(G/T/B)
I found several inconsistencies and mistakes in this article, right from the get-go:
Harry was born in manzanillo, mexico in 1994 A copy of his birth certificate was found and published in The Houdini Birth Research Committee's Report (1972)...
...Houdini's father was Mayer (Mayo) Samuel Weiss (1829-1892). Weisz was a rabbi;...
There are also many redundancies, as well as contradictions throughout the entry.
March 28th, 2008
Like the commenter in section The last two paragraphs of "Debunking spiritualists" are unclear above, I find the last paragraph confusing.
-84.223.120.228 (talk) 19:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I come from Brooklyn and remember as a child, his tomb being vandalised more than once. I cannot find article about it.Combatant (talk) 21:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I also remember that the Amazing Randi had a copy of the Bust that set atop his grave and that the American Society of Magicians will reach out to him everytime it was vadalized to replace it with his as a mold. Can anybody find old information about this?Combatant (talk) 22:02, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Of all the articles I watch on wiki this one receives the most vandalism. I thought is was a good idea when it was locked a while back. Maybe the powers-that-be should consider re-locking it? --Zencato (talk) 21:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
FYI, One of Houdini's biographers won both a Pulitzer prize and a Bancroft prize, and deserves an article on his own and a hot link in this article. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC) Stan
I've created this article. It includes a section on other magic museums, of which some of you are knowledgeable. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC) Stan
Who put in the line that he could regurgitate keys on command? Also, I would much appreciate a reference and source, I need it for a project. That would be much appreciated!! Thanks!! Bardanskirata (talk) 23:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
It is believed that in her mouth was the key to unlock the special handcuff. If she could hide a six inch key in her mouth that is some trick 23:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.99.85 (talk)
in the box under Houdini's picture it says he was born in 1868, but in the article it says he was born in 1874 (and aged 52 when he died). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.91.147.184 (talk) 23:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Good catch. Fixed. --Zencato (talk) 16:52, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Could somebody who's allowed to edit the page please add a link to his article under the 'Artifacts' section? --Kgaughan (talk) 20:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
During the mirror challenge, it states that since the people don't remove the handcuffs, he takes a pen knife out of his pocket and tears it up. I assume this means that he reached into his pocket, while still in the handcuffs, and ripped it up, while still in the handcuffs. Is that what actually happend? Because it seems like it would be difficult to get into a pocket, and rip up a coat while locked into 'the mirror'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.175.211.37 (talk) 03:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Yep, that's what happened. They say he held the knife in his teeth and shredded the coat. There's even an illustration of this in the Mirror account. Maybe I should add the teeth part to the description? --Zencato (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I added it. Also corrected the name of the Mirror representative using Silverman as source. The rep is not called by name in the original sourced newspaper account. --Zencato (talk) 16:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
The last sentence of proposed exhumation section contains no subject, and therefore makes no sense. Who opposed the exhumation?
69.212.80.78 (talk) 04:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
This article contains too many references to "the secret life of houdini." It reads like an advertising ploy on the part of the authors. The in text citations should changed to end text citations to maintain the neutrality of this article.
69.212.80.78 (talk) 04:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Article states Bess put out candle in 1936 - Under Legacy a storm on top of hotel put it out. What what's the true (cited) story?
STP reunion in 2008 is reported as nothing to do with Houdini. Need update (removal).
In a documentary Houdini fell on hard times and tried to sell his tricks. There's nothing of this in the article, should there be? Julia Rossi (talk) 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
A recent reference on exhumation state of play is here. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
This is the post on the refdesk:
they have yet to file court papers to have Houdini's body exhumed.
wasn't he something of an athlete? Should we mention his abilities?
Right now the Legacy section has inconsistent tenses -- switching mostly between past and present tense -- it should all be in past tense, and would probably be even better written as prose instead of as a list. I will try to get back here in the next week when I have time and do it, but if any enterprising soul reads this and has the time and the drive and gets to it before I do, that would be great. Brainmouse (talk) 20:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
in the area of the article on Houdini regarding the proposed exhumation I see where facts became arye. George Hardeen is Theo Hardeen's grandson thereby making George Houdini's grandnephew by blood not marriage. George is not related to him through his wife, but his brother. The family disputing it from occurring was his wife's not his. Facts otherwise appear accurate in that area, other than families getting crossed.Looking4knowledge (talk) 04:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I see no mention of his attempt at being buried alive, one of his tricks that almost killed him and which he never attempted again. 78.86.230.62 (talk) 19:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
There is no source for this new "Occult Committee" section, and even if sourced, it's connection to Houdini seems tangential at best. --Zencato (talk) 20:11, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Harry Houdini the great magition he preformed his first trapeze act at nine years old he was called "The Prince of the Air" so join in find out the great edventure this immigrant did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
harry houdini is the bomb digity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.58.127 (talk) 21:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
I am curious as to why the photograph of Houdini's grave marker was deleted from this article. This was a good photograph that appeared alongside the photo of his gravesite. Apparently, someone wanted the photo to be deleted, but I don't know why this action was carried out. Does anyone know why the photo of Houdini's grave marker was deleted? This deletion was the result of somebody's opinion, and opinions can boomerang.
His wife clearly stated she did not want any photos to be released after Harry's and Bess's death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.149.61.103 (talk) 22:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
The image File:Grim game.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --21:47, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
The section on Death has been deleted and the two photos of Houdini's gravesite have also been deleted. One of the problems with Wikipedia is that ANYONE can make a destructive edit to an article. There is NO reason why the gravesite photos should have been deleted from the article. As far as I'm concerned, this deletion constitutes vandalism.
Somebody said that Houdini's wife didn't want images of her husband's burial site to be published. That is a ridiculous reason for deleting the photos. Nobody controls the press, and nobody has the right to block publication of quality photographs that are not obscene or defamatory.
The photographs of Houdini's burial site should be reinstated into the article, and the person who deleted the pictures should be blocked from making future edits.
There is an excellent photo of Houdini performing his Chinese Water Torture Cell in the Library of Congress. I beleive we can use photos from their collection (the top photo of Houdini in chains come from the LOC). Can someone please upload it? Sorry, I don't know how. We can then add the picture to the "Notable esacpes" section, and we can also use it on the Wiki page about the Water Torture Cell. We get double use. :)
It's #3 pic located here: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/varstg:@FIELD(NUMBER(3c12434+3g03290+hs013))
Does anyone know more about this picture?
I'm guessing early 1920s publicity event, but no further idea as to what, where or why. It's part of a series including pictures of the same men with Commissioner Daly, Jack Kearns, Billy Gibson. Any information more than welcome! -- Michel Vuijlsteke (talk) 12:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Can someone in authority here at Wikipedia please review my website (http://www.houdini-lives.com) and consider it for inclusion in the External Links? The site was deleted because it was deemed an "Amazon/Ebay affiliate site." While, yes, I do include Amazon links on my site (as do almost all the other sites in the links), I have absolutely NOTHING to do with Ebay and, as a rule, only report on auction news after the auction has closed. I also report on ALL auctions -- online and otherwise -- that feature Houdini memorabilia, props, and posters. My site's mission statement is clearly stated on the Home page:
I do think this site is a unique source for Houdini information and a valuable link (and I think many Houdini collectors and experts who frequent the site would agree). I would also encourage you to look at my own contributions to this article to see the level of my commitment to providing accurate up-to-date information on Houdini.
I added my site when I saw it was no longer in the links. But then I saw that it had been delated by a mod, so I re-delated and decided to plead my case here. I hope if you throughly review the site you will recognize it as a very valuable and unique information source and decide in my favor. Thank you. --Zencato (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
houdini-lives.com has been re-added. Using a secure browser, when I view that site I cannot see anything useful. I can click myspace, facebook and twitter, and there is an advert for a book. Is the content at "Click for latest news" because I don't see anything helpful there either. Johnuniq (talk) 01:56, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
There are various webpages here and there, claiming that Houdini was a Mason, and with the release of Dan Brown's new novel this week, this speculation is probably going to increase. In order to head off a flurry of anon edits, does anyone have a reliable source with information on Houdini's purported link to Freemasonry? --Elonka 06:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
According to the site below, he was born Erik Weisz and it was Americanized to Ehrich Weiss. I'd change it, but I'm not sure what his real relatives' names were. Can anyone confirm this and get the real names of all his relatives listed in the article as well? http://www.stampsofdistinction.com/2008/07/10-facts-you-didnt-know-about-houdini.html
Damaband (talk) 04:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
In Houdini's article, the BURIED ALIVE section appears twice. I don't know how this happened, but the error should be corrected.
Anthony22 (talk) 23:39, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
The BURIED ALIVE section is not repeated. It might of been your computer stuffing up or something...
Please comment on whether this article should say Houdini was born as Erik Weisz or as Ehrich Weiss. If we can reach some consensus, future unwarranted changes can be reverted with a link to this discussion. Some paraphrased comments from earlier are:
Johnuniq (talk) 03:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
== I was reading The Executioner's Song by Norman Mailer and noticed in Chapter 19 a reference to Houdini, alluding that Harry Houdini(as Weiss) is an ancestor of Gary Gilmore, the subject of the book. This is a work of "fiction based on fact", but this reference doesn't seem to refer to anything else in the book, so seems to be from the fact part. Since this is an older book, I was wondering if this has been investigated 22:44, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
For those who have access to the original source material, I'm curious as to what happened to Whitehead afterwards. I found a source here that talks about it and says that nobody blamed Whitehead, he became a minister afterwards and vanished into obscurity, etc, but it's interesting trivia and I'm wondering if those who work on the sources on this article might be able to add it in context. Thanks. SamuelRiv (talk) 21:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please add to the Legacy portion of this article, the following:
2010 The new HBO series Boardwalk Empire makes several references to and features an appearance of Hardeen (Houdini's brother) as performed by actor (Remy Auberjonois)as an Atlantic City Boardwalk attraction circa 1920/1921.
This information can be verified and added to by simply searching Houdini's brother Boardwalk Empire. Thank you!
Thomaszocher (talk) 04:42, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I would edit the line, but I guess it's locked for editing.
"The show closed in New York on March 27, 2011, and then was to be displayed in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Madison, Wisconsin. Art & Antiques Magazine Winter 2010–11 issue reported on this exhibition."
Sure, I guess it will probably become true in a few days, but still... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.185.52 (talk) 06:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I deleted that from the death section for what I'd hope are obvious reasons, I'm gathering that this is some sort of joke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.35.246 (talk) 16:14, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be nice to allow the picture of Bess grave to be beside houdini on wiki at least if they weren't allowed to be berried together at least wiki should allow them to be together —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.142.1.236 (talk) 08:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
How ironic...or is it coincidental? Dorothy Young--the last surviving Houdini assistant--just died. She was 103 : http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5inDI-IOwdqiL9why6rg6fc4hN5Eg?docId=6344486 and http://www.washingtonpost.com/dorothy-young-harry-houdinis-last-surviving-stage-assistant-and-nj-arts-patron-dies-at-103/2011/03/23/ABbqiiKB_story.html . 69.140.66.37 (talk) 05:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please add an additional publication: "On Deception", published 1906. The book is currently available from Amazon, with a new foreword by Derren Brown: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deception-Derren-Brown/dp/1843916134
Under Legacy 2011: Band "Foster the People" release a single titled "Houdini" on their EP, "Foster the People-EP" 70.70.213.90 (talk) 05:36, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Houdini is also mentioned many times in the book The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon. He is protagonist Josef Kavalier's idol.
- Peach (talk) 22:47, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, in the Jim Butcher series The Dresden Files the protagonist, introduced in the 2000 novel Storm Front Harry Dresden is named after Harry Houdini and a number of other stage magicians. The characters full name is Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.
Grotonomus (talk) 05:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Benchmade knife company made a multitool in 2010 called the Houdini pro Rescue Cutter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.108.201.137 (talk) 01:19, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
In the original 1995 production of EFX at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Nevada, the ghost of Houdini, played by Michael Crawford(Phantom of the Opera), appears to his widow, Bess, during a seance. Kristy (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please Add Section:
Houdini the Master Mason
Harry Houdini[1] was initiated in St. Cecile Lodge No. 568, N.Y., July 17, 1923, Passed to the degree of Fellowcraft July 31, and Raised to Master Mason August 21. In 1924 he entered the Consistory. Houdini gave back to the Masonic fraternity of which he was so proud, including giving a benefit performance for the Valley of New York which filled the 4,000 seat Scottish Rite Cathedral and raised thousands of dollars. In October 1926, just weeks prior to his untimely death on that Halloween, he became a Shriner in Mecca Temple.
Under "Death" section please change
"Houdini's funeral was held on November 4, 1926, in New York, with more than 2,000 mourners in attendance"
to
"Houdini's funeral was held on November 4, 1926, in New York,[43] at the Elks Clubhouse in New York. Services were conducted by Rabbi Tintner who joined in the Elks "Hour of Remembrance," a tribute was delivered by Rabbi Bernard Drachman and eulogies by Loney Haskell of the Jewish Theatrical Guild and Henry Chesterfield of the National Vaudeville Artists, followed by a service by the Society of American Magicians, and concluded, as by tradition of the fraternity, with Masonic Rites. [2]"
"1953: Houdini, a mostly fictionalized biopic of Houdini's life, was made. This movie ... has contributed, in part, to several misconceptions about Houdini's life. For example, it portrays the cause of Houdini's death to be the magician's failure to escape from the Chinese Water Torture Cell. (Curtis's Houdini agrees to seek medical attention "when the tour is over.")"...
The following is the result of text added in April and recently updated: "A full sized replica of the Mirror Handcuffs, as well as a replica of the Bramah style key for it, is on display to the pubic at the Houdini Museum in Scranton, PA. The only pubic display of this style cuff anywhere in the world." That is unsourced and describes a replica: perhaps it should be removed unless someone can provide a reference, and explain how it helps this article. Johnuniq (talk) 10:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The text above and as it is in the article says "pubic" twice instead of "public." I was going to fix it, but the article is locked due to vandalism. - The Black Fox —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.57.167.125 (talk) 04:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
After taking statements from Price and Smilovitz, Houdini's insurance company concluded that the death was due to the dressing-room incident and paid double indemnity.
what dressing room? 77.177.135.1 (talk) 22:40, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
The "Proposed exhumation" section is fascinating and well referenced; what I question is whether we need it in a section unto itself. I do not question notability - but it just seems the section was designed as a smear of the Kalush-Sloman biography.
I don't excuse their behaviour, nor do I object to the section as-is. I only object to it being a section unto itself. If there were more to it, I'd say leave it in its own section.
I propose moving it to the very end of the "Death" section. Djathinkimacowboy 02:37, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
My recent edit to the exhumation subsection was recently reverted. I have undone that revision, but another editor reverted it, saying something about "Wikipedia's voice". That sounds really reasonable. Not.
Why did I edit that way? Here:
"NEW YORK, March 23 -- Determined to right a historic wrong, a group that included authors, lawyers and a forensic pathologist called a news conference Friday to unveil a bold campaign to exhume a dead book. No, wait. To exhume a dead body. Well, that's what they said, anyway. But the more they talked about exhuming the body, the more it seemed like the point was reviving the sluggish sales of a nearly moribund book. Specifically, The Secret Life of Harry Houdini: The Making of America's First Superhero, by William Kulash [sic] and Larry Sloman. Published in October, this door-stopper purports to reveal new and astounding elements of the great magician's life and death..." -from Segal, David (March 24, 2007). "Why Not Just Hold a Seance?". The Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301850.html. Retrieved March 24, 2007.
That is hostile to the biography, to the authors, and it clearly calls the book a door-stop, though the haec verba term used in the article as you see is "door-stopper"...which is the term we use in my family to mean "door-stop".
So, no, the edit stating the article is hostile to the book and the authors (as already cited with the citation of the article itself) and none of this is original research. As to "the voice of Wikipedia", well, aren't we all that voice?
Let's actually read citations before we go round accusing editors.
You're not dragging me into an edit war. Discussion should happen here, but I am calling for an RfC. Djathinkimacowboy 09:19, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
== Harry Houdini == As to the revert you made at the article: "Published in October, this door-stopper purports to reveal new and astounding elements of the great magician's life and death..." from Segal, David (March 24, 2007). "Why Not Just Hold a Seance?". The Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301850.html. Retrieved March 24, 2007. Why don't you actually read the cited materials before accusing an editor of "original research" and "uncited comments"? It's all in the article. The language is hostile. My edits were already cited with the original citation, no point in citing every word I add when it's verifiable. I have undone your revert. Djathinkimacowboy 08:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Then read it again....I do not wish to bandy semantics with you, but you are simply mistaken about this.
That article does call the biography a "door-stop", only using the term "door-stopper" and you know that.
As to your quote of my edit, I did indeed say "hostile", which the article is. You are now obfuscating a fact by saying I made that up - the article made it up, not I. Can you be a bit more fair in your unwarranted evaluation of my edit?
And I have already said I am not going to edit war, I have no intention to do so and never have. The fact that someone else hopped in minutes after you tells me nothing.
Please do not remove the rfc request! Djathinkimacowboy 09:43, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Please practice what you preach, then. Rude! You are in no position to call me rude. And I asked that the tag not be removed...did I ask you specifically?
Furthermore, please do not instruct me about the best way to clarify a long post. I did that for ease of reading. Does that bother you for some other reason? Djathinkimacowboy 09:52, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
The "hostile article" might be obviously true, but nevertheless such text should never be used in an article—to do so is known as expressing an opinion in Wikipedia's voice (that term is commonly used in various noticeboards; see WP:NPOV). An article can say that a certain source claimed X, but an article never states X unless X is an uncontroversial statement of fact. To say that a certain article is hostile is clearly an opinion. If it is the opinion of an editor, it does not belong in the article. For example, why is the opinion stated? An answer might be "in order to counteract the reliable source"—that is original research. Johnuniq (talk) 09:55, 26 November 2011 (UTC)The Washington Post added to the furor by stating in a hostile article (in which they refer to the Superhero biography as "a door-stop") that the press conference was not orchestrated by the family of Houdini.
Please do not tell me how to edit on Wikipedia, and do not obfuscate this further. If a citation is verified as obviously hostile - which this reference clearly is - then what you say makes no sense. Or are you saying I need to find another citation that says the article was "hostile"? - even sillier. Do you read the rules very closely? Anyone has the right to an rfc. You make it seem as if you'd like to strip this right from me. Djathinkimacowboy 09:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
I quote the "Impartial tone" sec. from point of view:
"Wikipedia describes disputes. Wikipedia does not engage in disputes. A neutral characterization of disputes requires presenting viewpoints with a consistently impartial tone..."
Let me state that I read clearly in the article that it was hostile - a dispute with the authors and their book on Houdini. I did not state anything else, not even what I just stated here. I simply stated what I saw throughout the article; it is clear to anyone who reads the article. It was hostile, as I read it, because Kalush and Sloman generated a phony exhumation story for publicity.
More importantly, the article was hostile to the book. It calls the book a "door-stopper" (a/k/a a "door-stop") and I really can't imagine why you all deny that the article states that. Are you reading the same article I'm reading?
So I was not and am not saying either reference source is anything other than what I verified. That is the Wikipedia standard too: verifiability, or verification. Does that help justify the reason for my original edit? I don't want to be accused of edit warring again.... Djathinkimacowboy 12:42, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
DVdm, I've learnt a lot all right - still do not know where you're coming from regarding all this. I feel I am in the right, but I follow procedure and I'm certainly not edit warring. According to some editors here, I have no rights at all. Furthermore, I doubt whether you're being particularly helpful at this point. The issue is: a source that serves as a backbone for a section should be described accurately when necessary. Doing that is not an exercize in point of view, is what I am arguing. Djathinkimacowboy 04:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
That is all babbling. Johnuniq admits the article is negative. That in itself is a consensus that it is negative, or reads as negative - and I said over and over, I am not trying to nail one source over another. Djathinkimacowboy 04:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Somehow I feel the rudeness and pettiness knows no bounds here. Frankly I am disappointed with the unfriendly, unhelpful tenor. Yes, I know, you want a source that says, blah blah. DVdm, now that you've got your dig in you may wish to leave this behind...as I already have. Djathinkimacowboy 15:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I suggest the same to you. Never have I regretted awarding a star before, but now.... Djathinkimacowboy 15:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Hope no one will protest to my removal of some frankly silly minutiae and grammatical corrections from the article. We don't need to know every time Houdini's name was mentioned or every time he inspired someone.
I also removed the cumbersome explanations about Google's patents. There is such a thing as notability. Djathinkimacowboy 13:10, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
My above heartfelt apology extends to you here, Rich Farmbrough. Djathinkimacowboy 07:33, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Extended content |
---|
|
Some of the text is available from online sources, I haven't looked to find all of it, haven't looked for the papers, but it's obviously very significant and needs to be included in the article which presents Harry as Australia's first aviator. I have the full text in the publication in front of me, if anyone needs more.
-(Indonesian: Penyulap, Lit. Magician) Penyulap talk 19:49, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
In this edit a few paragraphs were added to the article. One of those is shown on the right in the table below. The text on the left is from the blacklisted link mentioned above.
suite101 | article |
---|---|
He was not the only man attempting to make history. In 1909, a man named Colin De Fries attempted to fly a Wright Brothers plane in Sydney. In March 1910, at the same time as Houdini, two other men, Fred Custance in Adelaide and Ralph Banks at Diggers Rest in Victoria, were attempting to fly. Banks had a Wright Brothers craft and Custance had a Bleriot monoplane. | He was not the only man attempting to make history in Australia. In 1909, Colin De Fries attempted to fly a Wright Brothers plane at Victoria Park Racecourse in Sydney. In March 1910, at the same time as Houdini, two other men Fred Custance in Adelaide and Raplh Banks at Diggers Rest in Victoria, were also attempting to fly. Banks had a Wright Brothers craft and Custance had a Bleriot monoplane. |
That is clearly a copyvio. Are you suggesting that the text added to Wikipedia in that edit (23 December 2011) was on Wikipedia first, and was then copied to the external site? As I explained at your talk, it is common for several sites to have similar text—it can be hard to determine which holds the original. At any rate, it seems clear that the text added to Wikipedia was copied from somewhere. Are you saying it wasn't? Are you aware that copying text into Wikipedia is not permitted: even if attributed, we do not insert significant amounts of text from other sources. Johnuniq (talk) 10:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
... There is not and never will be a requirement that a citation to a printed source include a weblink. If the text appears in a reliable source, that's all that's needed..... The fact that similar information is on a blacklisted site is, as somebody else already pointed out, completely irrelevant.
— --Orange Mike, Talk 20:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
The aviation section has been badly mangled by all this. Zencato (talk) 19:02, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Seamless Wikipedia browsing. On steroids.
Every time you click a link to Wikipedia, Wiktionary or Wikiquote in your browser's search results, it will show the modern Wikiwand interface.
Wikiwand extension is a five stars, simple, with minimum permission required to keep your browsing private, safe and transparent.