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hoo-- this page needs a rewrite... I have no doubt to the facts and figures, but the grammar needs a lot of work, and it could use a bit of organization. Anyone with a comment? I will get started this weekend.Davejenk1ns 12:33, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It is extremely difficult to critique and not offend someone, or many, that have obviously worked very hard to bring this article to its current level of completion. However, after just reading it for the first time, I felt let down and misled by the superb section titles that at no point in time of their content describe what was promised. Design, for instance. I fully expected to learn about the DESIGN. As in, what individuals (by name) had their hand in a) the preliminary design, b) the contract design phase, and lastly, c) who or what agency acted as "design agent" and tackled the massive job of creating every single detailed working drawing that the builders need to get started. I think this type of information is interesting and essential to a famous design such as Essex class.
Similar paragraphs could be said about the promises made by the title DEVELOPMENT, and one I didn't see but would love to read CONSTRUCTION.
Like I said in my opening. it's so easy to criticize and so hard to do the work. I'm just sharing what I feel the types of detailed information ship fans are hoping to find once they land on any ship article. Thanks for listening. Xl five lx 10:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Heck, I have serious doubts about some of the facts (if not figures). The 3rd paragraph states: "U.S. carriers had the same amount of deck armor as their British counterparts." No, they didn't: in fact that entire paragraph needs a rewrite as it's pretty incoherent, along with the factual inaccuracies. John DiFool —Preceding unsigned comment added by John DiFool2 (talk • contribs) 03:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
This article still needs to be rewritten for clarity, even if it means greatly increasing the word count. At many points in the article the language is cumbersome and it is very unclear to which vessel(s) a particular statement refers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.31.201.32 (talk) 03:53, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Propose to merge Ticonderoga class aircraft carrier into Essex class aircraft carrier. The building of both type overlaps. The Essex class usually describes both the short-hull (Essex) and long-hull (Ticonderoga) variants, with little difference between the two othet than length. As such, there is consideralble overlap between the two articles, and neither article is that long. Post war, some of both types underwent the same types of modifications (such as receiving angled deck), while others of both types remained unmodified. Most historical assessments deal with the entire history of both types together. -BillCJ 05:28, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd accept the merger, but it'd have to be carried out very delicately. Like you have stated, the Ticonderoga isn't really a separate class as much as its a slight modification of the Essex design, but you'd still have to explain that progression in the new merged article. Shoot me a message if you need any help with this. Andyuts! 18:21, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, in the absence of any objections, I am proceeding with the merger. I hope to have it done within the next week or so. -BillCJ 15:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I have completed the major portion of the merger, and the Tico class page has a redirect. The following tasks remain to be completed:
-BillCJ 19:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Why are there specs for the Midway class carriers (totally different class) on this page? Some ships are clearly missing from the list of ships (e.g. USS Boxer). -h27kim 21:54, October 24 2006 (PST)
I find it quite surprising that this passage was allowed to stand for so long. They were not even the largest warships during the war, or even the largest American warships of the war (Iowa Class). Secondly, the end of the Industrial age is rather imprecise, I suppose the end of WWII is a pretty good date for it but it is certianly not the only date.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 01:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Since I criticized (see above in rewrite), now maybe I can help on one tiny thing to make amends. Know that opening line that is so important to communicate the class' uniqueness yet so hard to put into words and have people actually understand it?
Essex was a class of aircraft carriers of the United States Navy, which constituted the 20th century's most numerous class of heavy warships, with 24 ships built.
You're having the very same problem we had. How to phrase a challenging point so it flows smoothly and is easily understood by anyone on their first pass. "most numerous class of"???? Wow. I kinda think I know what you meant - you guys certainly know what you meant - but they, those average joe guys, likely are saying wow too - or worse, what the heck does that mean?
We had the exact same problem with the Casablanca class escort carriers and here is what turned out to be the solution. It will solve your problem as well.
The Casablanca class Escort aircraft carriers were the greatest number of, not only escort carriers, but also, any size aircraft carrier ever built to a like-design by any nation at any time. Fifty of these were laid down, launched and commissioned within the space of a little more than one and three-quarter years - November 3rd, 1942 through July 8th, 1944.
Now, adapting this verbiage and order to Essex might look something like this:
The United States Navy's Essex class aircraft carriers were the greatest number of heavy warships ever built to a like-design throughout the 20th Century! Twenty-Four of these were built ... blah ... blah ... blah (you guys can take it from there)
One last thing: Since the whole criteria of your point absolutely hinges on the word HEAVY, I don't think you have much choice but to emphasize it somehow. Italics, Bold, something - some way. Good luck, hope this helps, even just a little. Oh, one last thing: Regarding were the Essex's the largest ships ever built by the yards that built them OTHER than Newport News? No way. The Navy yards pumped out the odd Essex just to relieve Newport News the burden of building all. These same Navy yards also built BBs. So, there goes that Essex the largest from those other yards thing. Xl five lx 10:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
1. I dont see the rationale for putting the picture of the Lake Champlain where it is. First of all, there's just no need for it. If people actually read the article, they'll realize that Essex carriers started as axial deck, and later received angled decks. I dont get the urgency to put both pictures right at the beginning.
2. More importantly, putting an image right next to the infobox cuts off the flow of the text. At least on my computer, the picture comes between the contents box and the text. The Manual of Style cautions against sandwiching text between two images. I dont see why cutting off the text with two images or an image and an infobox is better.
3. The Manual of Style also says you should start with a right aligned image, which this is not. It also says you should not fix thumb sizes, which this one is.
4. Why Lake Champlain? If the important thing is to show the basic form of the Essex class, I'd show an unmodified ship. Lake Champlain was an oddball with the straight deck and SCB-27A configuration. (I know a few carriers served in the Korean War in this configuration. Still not typical.)
5. Can you put two images in the infobox? That would make sense to me. This format doesn't.
6. Failing that, how about replacing the current infobox image with an unconverted carrier? That's how they started, the angled decks came later. It would seem fitting that they also came later in the article.
M Van Houten 23:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
This last sentence seems to be inaccurate unless I'm misunderstanding something. CV-10 Yorktown was never scrapped - she's preserved at Patriot's Point. It would be accurate to say all were decommissioned, but not that all were scrapped. The Dark 15:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
U.S. carriers had the same amount of deck armor as their British counterparts.
The US carriers DID NOT have the same amount of deck armor as UK ships, they had the same amount of HANGER DECK armor. Suggest that this be changed to "hanger floor armor" to be clearer.
In addition, the UK ships had 3" of FLIGHT DECK armor - which the US ships did not.
I added the "Ships Today" section, as I think it's interesting to have a section devoted to the final fates of the ships; also, it's worth pointing out that four of the ships can be visited. This section is really minimal right now; feel free to expand and correct. — Johan the Ghost seance 15:58, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Also added the Apollo section, which I think is worth mentioning -- 5 ships of the class took part in the manned missions. (I didn't look at the unmanned ones yet.) And it wasn't just chance; the reason, I think, was that they had 4 independent power plants; maybe someone can find a source for that and add it.
BTW, the post-war section looks to me like it could be oragnized a bit and split into roughly-chronological subsections; post-war, korea/vietnam, rebuilding, space program, anti-sub, etc. Comments? — Johan the Ghost seance 17:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Looking over the individual articles there is no mention of air wings durning the mentioned periods. Especially difficult to find is information about post 50's straight deck operations and ASW ops which could be included. The ASW information would really help improve the sad state of the ASW_carrier page which as it stands is mostly a unresearched list of light carriers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.100.72 (talk) 17:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
It looks like the ASW ships operated S-2 Tracker, E-1 Tracer, and SH-3 Sea King also A-1 Skyraider are shown in some pictures but with unspecified mission[1]. Did these ships carry any defensive fighters? I have found the USS BENNINGTON operated A-4B in 1964 and 1965 but the role is uncertian I don't think the sidewinder was used with the A-4 at this time.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.100.72 (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
See USS Bennington (CV-20), will these be good? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.162.82 (talk) 11:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
All of the Israeli and US A-4 air-to-air kills were with zuni rockets, the only mention I see is the later Australian and Argentine aircraft. Perhaps not for fighter cover but just for extra close air support in Vietnam? I put a sample ASW and CVA air wing in USS Bennington (CV-20), but nothing on post was un-angled land deck ops or aircraft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.174.182 (talk) 21:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
~~~~
). Otherwise others have to dig through the history and add signatures so that folks can make sense of the conversation. Cheers, — Johan the Ghost seance 15:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)The 1956-57 air wing consisted of the following one squadron each of the following: FJ3 Fury, F2H Banshee's, F9F Cougar fighters, AD-6 Skyraider, AD-5N Skyraider, and AD-5W attack aircraft, AJ2 Savage bombers, and F9F-8P photo reconnaissance planes.[2]
As an ASW carrier a typical air wing on an Essex class ship in the 1960's such as the [[[USS Bennington CVS-20|USS Bennington (CV-20)]] consisted of two squadrons of S-2F Tracker's, a squadron of Sikorsky SH-34's ASW helicopters which were replaced in 1964 by SH-3A Sea King's in that role. Airborne early warning was first provided by EA-1E's modified for the AEW role, these were upgraded in 1965 to the E-1 Tracer which is built on the same frame as the S-2 Tracker. During the years 1964 and 1965 a squadron of A-4B Skyhawks were also embarked.[3]
Above from info I grepped on the USS Bennington, The Essex ships that served into the 80's I belive were given F-18's to retire the Phantoms since they couldnt do F-14's but I need a source. Seems thse were Midway class ships. Below is from the USS Orskany
For a typical 1969 attack carrier configuration such as the the USS Oriskany CVA-34 deployed with Two squadrons of F-8J Crusaders, Three squadrons in A-4E Skyhawks VAW-111 in {{E-1 Tracer|E-1 Tracers]], VAQ-130 in EKA-3B Skywarriors and RF-8G photo Crusaders. In 1970, the three A-4 Skyhawk squadrons were replaced by two A-7A Corsair II squadrons.[4] The F-4 Phantom II was considered too heavy to operate from the Essex class ships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.174.182 (talk • contribs) June 7, 2008
The a-4 was apparently used as air defense for CVS designated ships working up in 1962 and apparently ending around 1965 here is the best CVS link I could find http://www.skyhawk.org/3e/va64/va64.htm as well as Attack_Squadron_46_(United_States_Navy)#Early_years showing skyhawks armed with the AIM-9 Sidewinder, although at this time the USS Randolph (CV-15) was a CVA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.124.230 (talk) 15:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I read on some internet sites that any of these ships, had a tripulation of as much as 5,000 persons.Other sources put as just 3,500 persons in each ship.The article doesn't tells how many persons were the tripulation of this ship.Agre22 (talk) 02:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)agre22
It's not addressed, but IIRC, there were complaints about the deck-edge elevators not being as suitable due to exposure to sea & weather. Can anybody confirm/refute & add? Also, use of overhead suspension demands an increase in hangar height & consequent increase in tophamper & instability. Was this accounted for in the design? I don't see it mentioned. (I confess I may have missed it...) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 10:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Some more clarifications needed.
Which ones?
Was there also an issue of the increased spot strain of impact at touchdown? And some changes.
Startling? I rewrote.
The link has damn all to do with the hangar, & angled deck was postwar. I deleted or rewrote to fix it, adding it was the Brits who innovated the canted deck (as they call it, I believe), in 1952. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 17:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
"redesignated Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH) amphibious assault ships" Now, I understand the two aren't synonymous, but isn't there a less awkward way of phrasing it? (I couldn't find one that didn't ask for deleting one or the other...) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 18:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
This is something that could use an illustration to show. From reading it I can't tell how much more of a bow there was on the long-hulls. Was it entirely above the waterline? or was the lower hull longer too? GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Trekphiler, I think you should review the discussion behind the decision taken some time ago to merge the former Essex-class and Ticonderoga-class articles into one. To add my points here: 1) the Navy never recognized or listed a separate "Ticonderoga" class; all ships were originally listed in the Naval Vessel Register as the Essex class (except Oriskany, which was commissioned as the lead ship of her own class). 2) The terms "long-hull" and "short-hull" are actually rather misleading; there was no difference in the hull design p-to-p or below the waterline. The extended bow flare was in essence little more than an AA sponson. Moreover, the Navy rarely considers superstructure alterations as creating a new "class"- even the angled deck refits never rated a class change. The addition of a helo hanger to later Arleigh Burke destroyers doesn't mark a separate class either. For that matter, Jimmy Carter is still a Seawolf-class sub despite being 100 feet longer than her sisters! 3) If you've never heard the term "subclass", well, then you haven't read a lot. It's by no means uncommon to refer to, say, the Kent, London and Norfolk subclasses of the County-class cruisers, a usage in fact found on that Wiki page. 4) In the interests of amity, however, I propose as an alternative "Tigonderoga group." --Solicitr (talk) 16:51, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Where does "essex" come from? This needs to be included.96.52.0.249 (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
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