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The exact day of Rohm's death is 1stJuly1934.
It's wrong 2ndJuly1934 of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.211.95.158 (talk) 21:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The London Times [ 2 July 1934, in an article datelined 1 July ] and the New York Times [ http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/opinion/02iht-oldjuly02.html?_r=1 ] both put out that the execution of Roehm and its particulars (refused offer to commit suicide, etc.) were announced on the evening of July 1st. 1 July is also the date provided in the German Wikipedia entry: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.202.178 (talk) 06:07, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
This page needs better source material. Source 2 is particularly poor. While it looks respectable, it's actually from a right wing christian group calling itself a university - not an actual recognised educational institution. It should be removed and replaced with a better source, the information itself is avaliable from many more reliable sources.
this should be removed -> ^ * Scot Lively en Kevin Abrams, Excerpt fromThe Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, Founders Publishing Company, 1995, door Kevin Lively t.b.v. Cultre Wars, 1996
I have just completed translating Röhm's book "Die Geschichte eines Hochverräters" (Franz Eher Verlag, 1928) for a UK publisher. This autobiography covers his early life and his activities in the Reichswehr and as leader of various armed militia groups (not the SA) until 1925. Since Röhm was being watched, and was bound by the Law for the Protection of the Republic to report honestly in any publication relating to that subject, the contemporaneous material in his book is more valuable and reliable than all scholastic studies of the period then and ever since. It is a disgrace that academic historians lie - that is the only word for it - in order to promote a political philosophy of the present. In particular the facts of the Beer Hall Putsch as promulgated by historians are false if we accept Röhm's version. There is no reason to doubt that he is truthful. Over the course of the next few weeks I would be planning to make alterations to the various entries: Röhm, von Lossow, Kahr, the Beer Hall Putsch and so forth. In all cases my reference source will be the aforementioned book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoffreybrooks (talk • contribs) 19:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Reference 11, Hitler's War is a book by David Irving, who, to put it mildly, is not seen as a reliable author on what Hitler did or did not privately know, even if he does reference another author John Toland in the book. A direct reference to Toland or some better source is needed. Seos (talk) 15:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I've read both that he was gay AND that his homosexuality was fabricated as a pretext for his murder.
It's widely accepted that he was indeed homosexual. But this fact was known long before his muder, so it's not really reason for this.
Here are some more references for Rohm's sexuality: Spartacus Schoolnet Boston Globe Peter Tatchell Simon Wiesenthal Centre University of California Book catalogue The Guardian DJ Clayworth 17:30, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Ernst Röhm was one of the most prominent of a number of early Nazi party members who was an alleged homosexual and his homosexuality was ultimately the pretext used for his removal during the purge of the SA.
I have rewritten the section for several reasons - it was too much like a book review, contained errors (the name Schdtzl is obviously wrong - even German requires a vowel) and was not encyclopedic in style. That Rohm was gay is well-known and need not be based upon one or another book review. Further, this is not the place to discuss theories of Hitler's sexuality. Eusebeus 20:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I worry that some of the terms used in this article with reference to Röhm's sexuality have too much of a contemporary feel; words like 'outed' 'closet', and even 'gay' itself. Röhm made no great secret of his sexual inclinations, which arose, in large measure, from his military background, with a strong emphasis on both on misogyny and manliness. White Guard 00:42, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
You are quite right White Guard. Rohm's sexuality had more in common with the ancient greek practices of homosexuality within the military than with the modern connotations of homosexuality. Cauld1 (talk) 15:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
How open was Roehm about his homosexual lifestyle? Did all the high-ranking NSDAP members know he was a practising homosexual? If so, how did he rise to such a high position in a very anti-LGBT party? Why did Hitler turn a blind eye to it, and how was it not a source of ridicule toward Hitler and the party that one of its most prominent and powerful members was homosexual? Nietzsche 2 (talk) 00:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
I found a picture online of Ernst Roehm, but I cannot read German and cannot tell if it is copyrighted or not. Picture--Lucky13pjn 19:39, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)
(Erich Retzlaff is the author of Wegbereiter und Vorkämpfer für das neue Deutschland, which means roughly "Trailblaer and Early Combatant for the new Germany"; DHM turns out not to be the publisher (which was probably a NSDAP house organ) but the "German Historical Museum", located in the former East Berlin.)--Jerzy(t) 17:47, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
German-language chronlogy of his life: --Jerzy(t) 17:47, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
I think there is some discrepancies here. Rohm did not start the SA nor was he a member of it. Please check out Kampfbund and we need to coordinate the information accordingly.WHEELER 20:49, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Just a heads up - some of the images of Ernst are now broken links, and have empty picture boxes. Anyone know what the story was there? --NightMonkey 01:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
There would appear to be some conflicting factual information in this article. If Röhm spent fifteen months in prison after the abortive Beer Hall Putsch in November 1923 he could not have formed the Frontbann in April 1924. Also the suggestion here is that he spent his time in prison in Landsberg alongside Hitler. Can this be correct? White Guard
I don't believe Roehm spent any time in prison following the Beer Hall Putsch, and certainly not 15 months:
"When the Munich police fired on the Nazi parade, leaving sixteen Nazis dead in the streets, the intended coup was smashed. Two hours later Roehm was persuaded to capitulate at Army headquarters and was taken into custody. Roehm was one of the nine in addition to Hitler who were accused of treason. Although found guilty, Roehm was discharged on the day sentence was pronounced." --from page 67 of "Hitler's Henchmen" by Louis Leo Snyder; Publisher: David & Charles (November 15, 2005); ISBN-13: 978-0715320334
"Whereas Rohm, released on probation immediately after the trial, at once tried to reassemble the shattered nationalist armed organizations, Hitler, even while still in Landsberg prison, began to dissociate himself from Rohm, to drop the military presuppositions of his plans for seizing power, and, as he proudly stressed later, remained 'immune to advice'." --from Chapter 11 in the 1999 book "The Face Of The Third Reich" by Joachim C Fest; based on "Die Geschichte eines Hochverraters" the autobiography of Ernst Röhm, published in Munich, 1928 Badlermd (talk) 21:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Here's further evidence from Wikipedia itself that Roehm never served prison time for the Beer Hall Putsch: "Both Röhm and Dr. Wilhelm Frick, though found guilty, were released." Badlermd (talk) 03:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
This article is swarming with inapplicable contemporary american political terms such as 'leftist', 'lefty', 'conservative', 'president', 'commander in chief', etc etc. This really has no place in this historical article, a general cleanup is required.145.97.223.119 23:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Please see my comments concerning the terms used to describe his sexuality-they are completely out of place. White Guard 23:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Paul von Hindenburg, until his death, was both "president" of Germany and "commander-in-chief" of the army, or Reichswehr. Communists and even Social Democrats in 1930s Germany may fairly be described as "leftists," although not "lefty." Historical figures such as Hindenburg, Von Papen, and Blomberg, may fairly be described as "conservatives." Nazis may fairly be described as "rightists" or "right-wing," but probably not "conservative," as the Nazi vision of society is more properly described as "radical."
In any article about the era, the text should use English-language equivalents. Hitler in 1933 should therefore be described as "chancellor," not "Reichskanzler."--Mcattell 17:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I have removed vandalism from this page, I suggest this article should be semi-locked for the time being to stop blatant and anonymous vandalism. Neil Evans
I've been intently working on the article Night of the Long Knives, and some of its ancillary articles. As I initially found them, these articles seemed to share a common myth: that Hitler was hoodwinked by others in the party, including Göring, Himmler, and Heydrich, into believing that Röhm was planning a putsch against him, and that Hitler only very reluctantly ordered Röhm's arrest and death.
This is most emphatically not the case. Hitler was an shrewd political operator. He gained control of the movement, kept control of it during his time in prison, and used it to seize absolute power in Germany by remorselessly calculating the usefulness of his subordinates, and had no compunction about eliminating them if they had become a hindrance to him.
This is precisely what he did in ordering the purge that became known as the Night of the Long Knives. Röhm and the SA were very useful to Hitler during the years of his ascent because they could be counted on to terrorize political opponents. Because of that, Hitler tolerated the notorious reputation of the SA and its leadership for drinking and brawling. He also therefore tolerated Röhm's homosexuality.
One Hitler had seized power, however, there was no longer a need for a private militia that could smash up political meetings. He now had the full apparatus of the modern state, including the police forces, jails, and concentration camps to take care of that.
Röhm and the SA had outlived their usefulness to Hitler. That alone might not have resulted in a purge. However, Röhm's politics and especially his insistence that the SA supplant the Reichswehr was direct threat to the traditional army, including Hindenburg. By 1934, Blomberg, Hindenburg, and the rest of the army leadership made it clear to Hitler that if Röhm and the SA were not immediately brought to heel, they would declare martial law.
Once Hitler knew he had to act, he did so relentlessly. Hitler ordered Himmler and the rest to fabricate evidence implicating that Röhm was involved in a plot, so that he could later show this "evidence" to a grateful nation. It is very similar to Hitler's modus operandi when he fabricated evidence of a Polish raid on Germany, in order to create a pretext for the invasion of Poland.
Every serious history of the era, by reputable historians, agree on this: Hitler wanted Röhm eliminated because he was a threat to the army and, to a lesser extent, the Nazi's principle supporters among the wealthy and the middle classes. Hitler did not reluctantly order the purge because other Nazis had fooled him. Let's get our facts straight. --Mcattell 16:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Parts of this article are too long. The section marked "downfall' that describes the months before the purge in great deatil -- probably too much detail. It needs to be edited for length, but otherwise contains good writing. Also, references to historian Shirer, or any other historian, do not belong in the text. The text should contain individual facts that are properly sourced.--Mcattell 17:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
This section should be removed, and its information interwoven with the body of the text where appropriate.--Mcattell 17:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Although I've flowed the text, much remains to be done.
Gwen Gale 20:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Is professionnal pedophile an occupation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.129.94.248 (talk) 12:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to say that the German quotes about his final minutes are totally wrong. This needs to be cleaned up. I speak German and it is nothing but gibberish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.115.8.18 (talk) 11:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I reverted the recent edit herein where the NSDAP was written out as National Socialist German Workers' with the link going to the Nazi Party. It was never known by that name; it can be written as: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) or National Socialist German Workers' Party or Nazi Party. Any of those will do. Kierzek (talk) 02:41, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
First paragraph: “ …was a German military officer and founding member of the Nazi Party.” There is a common error made that Röhm was a member of DAP before Hitler. I was always skeptical of that as I could not imagine what would have attracted him to this seemingly totally insignificant fringe group. This misconception seems to be a case of one author simply following another in error. (I know of another such case regarding the Battle of Gettysburg.) Although William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is a work replete with citations, the author gives none while discussing the early days of DAP. I have always suspected he relied upon non-attributed verbal sources of dubious reliability at that late date. This is, I presume, the origin of the error.
I recently confirmed my doubt by contacting an eminent historian and expert on the Third Reich. He responded:
Röhm joined the DAP in late 1919 with the membership number 623. Hitler began attending meetings in September, so a bit before this. His membership number was 555 (the numbering began at 500 to give the impression it was not the tiny fringe movement it actually was). So Röhm joined AFTER Hitler.
Hitler was already making an impression with his speeches at the Party's meetings and attracted the attention of the Reichswehr, where Röhm was embedded with his Freikorps. So both Hitler's prominence in the DAP and the Reichswehr's interest in the organization would have drawn Röhm into the party. He was also a member of other far-right groups in Munich.
He suggested a new biography of Hitler by Volker Ullrich as documentation.
Röhm was not a founding member of DAP and was not yet a member when Hitler joined. As I always suspected, he joined because of Hitler.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I changed one of the photo credits from Leader to Stabschef which was deleted, I then changed it to Chief of Staff which was also deleted. If Stabschef is not acceptable, why then does the Wiki page for Sturmabteilung then have a section about the Leaders which then shows this:
In September 1930, to quell the Stennes Revolt and to try to ensure the personal loyalty of the SA to himself, Hitler assumed command of the entire organization and remained Oberster SA-Führer for the remainder of the group's existence until 1945. The day-to-day running of the SA was conducted by the Stabschef-SA (SA Chief of Staff); a position Hitler designated for Ernst Röhm.[39] After Hitler's assumption of the supreme command of the SA, it was the Stabschef-SA who was generally accepted as the Commander of the SA, acting in Hitler's name. The following personnel held the position of Stabschef-SA:
Otto Wagener (1929–1931) Ernst Röhm (1931–1934) Viktor Lutze (1934–1943) Wilhelm Schepmann (1943–1945)
I don't understand why my giving the image his correct title of Stabschef-SA was deemed unacceptable because it was not an English speaking title, yet Wiki clearly has an entry explaining just that? It clearly says Ernst Röhm was Stabschef-SA and not leader, it clearly states Hitler was leader, yet the image is not allowed to have the title Stabschef-SA? What would be wrong with having it and making it a link to Stabschef-SA so if anyone was interested they could read further on it in an English Wiki page on the subject? I even changed it Chief of Staff and that was deleted. I don't understand why it's ok on one Wiki page but not on another — Preceding unsigned comment added by Troy von Tempest (talk • contribs) 05:59, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Recently several awards were added by one user, with citations, and quickly removed by another as being too trivial. Most of the awards each have wikipedia articles about them, ie Military Merit Cross (Bavaria), Silesian Eagle, Golden Party Badge, Blood Order, List of honorary citizens of Munich, which on face value would suggest that they are not trivial. One award (Prinzregent Luitpold-Medaille) had no article. Could we please clarify why such content not suitable for this article? @Beyond My Ken and Troy von Tempest: Thanks, Batternut (talk) 08:00, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
A compromise which was reached on this issue, or at least a cease fire, was that if a person was notable enough that it is of immense academic interest to know all of their awards, then a separate "service record" article may be created. For instance Service record of Heinrich Himmler or Service summary of Douglas MacArthur. The awards must be well cited and it must be undeniable that there is academic interest in having a complete list. -O.R.Comms 03:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
I believe that the aspect ratio of the infobox image in this article is such that presented at the infobox's default value it is too large, the visual equivalent of SHOUTING. I suggest that the current size is more appropriate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:04, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Large sections of the article are unsourced, or at least it's unclear what the citation is. This needs to be improved. I have tagged these sections the with cn tag. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:38, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Franz von Papen morreu em 2 de Maio de 1969 e não como dizem neste artigo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8A0:6F17:C101:8158:5F83:1DDD:D0CF (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Is there any information on Rohm's earlier life and when exactly he came out as a gay man or when he began to experiment with it. Could it be before World War 1? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.130.228 (talk) 09:46, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Röhm was killed because he had resisted standing the SA down, and because Hitler needed the powerful industrialists on his side. Röhm wanted to transform society in a way that Hitler, the army and the industrialists did not want. (Westerhaley (talk) 13:45, 15 May 2021 (UTC))
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