Loading AI tools
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is an archive of past discussions about Episcopal Church (United States). Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
The Constitution of the Episcopal Church lists only two names:
It is quite understandable to feel the latter to be awkward, especially given the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Episcopal Church of Mexico, and the other like named provinces in the Anglican Communion. However, unlike all those others, its jurisdiction is not limited to just one country; the Episcopal Church has long included a substantial number of non-US dioceses.
At this point, basically nobody but nobody calls it the "Protestant Episcopal" anything, and the name is retained for historical reasons alone. Indeed, a primary reason behind adding the name "The Episcopal Church" as an official name was precisely because it's not NPOV to say "Protestant", and the word irks many Anglicans
And, since it gets to decide its own name, it chooses not to piss off its own members outside the US, rather than worry about non-members in other Anglican churches around the world. It's just one of those quaint little weirdnessess that is so common in Anglicanism. :)
I would be happy to add a disambiguator in parentheses, but only if it's accurate: and "United States" just wouldn't be accurate.
--Tb 23:38 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
There's nothing that says we have to have organizations under thier constitutional names; we have them under the most common, most recognizable, less ambigous name available. Episcopal Church, USA and ECUSA are used by the church it self on its website, I see no reason we can't use one of those here. The Episcopal Church could be the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Phillipine Episcopal Church, or the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem & the Middle East which has parishes in thirteen countries. - Efghij 00:37 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
We should have organizations either under their consitutional names, or under a correct descriptive name. "Episcopal Church, USA" is, unfortunately, neither. (Frankly, if it weren't likely to raise hackles, I would vote for just such a change of its name.) I added a reference to the problem on the page itself, which seems like a good idea; if you can think of ways to improve it, that would be great too.
The church's website is (unfortunately) incorrect. alas, they are trying to solve a hard problem. As I said, I have no objection to a disambiguation, but it should be *correct* and not merely an oversimplification. The issue isn't just that the Episcopal Church is in more than one country; as you point out, so is the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East. But note that that latter name correctly describes the broad spread of that church. If it were called "The Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and Egypt", it would be very wrongly titled. Similarly, "USA" is just not an adequate descriptor of the name of the Episcopal Church. If there were a good disambiguator, we could add it in parentheses. I agree completely that we should try to do this. But it needs to be correct. The fact is that the actual reality (out there in the world) is confusingly ambiguous, and while we might prefer a more ordered reality (and it would be easier to describe in the encyclopedia!) we can't declare the reality changed just so that it's easier for us to describe.
It's a similar problem to the adjective "American"; regardless of whether it is or is not unambiguous, it's the adjective we've got. We don't rename "The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America" just because the name is ambiguous between the continent and the country.
--Tb 00:45 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
It just strikes me as rather nitpicky to say that we can't call this Episcopal Church in the United States of America or Episcopal Church, USA or ECUSA because the church includes dioceses outside the US, when the church's own constitutional name includes "... in the United States of America". I agree that this may not be the best discription, but it used by the church itself so there is no reason that we can't use it. - Efghij 01:54 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Well, we could certainly pick parts out of the two different names and fuse them together into a new name. I think that, particularly with official organizations, part of the job of an Encyclopedia is to give the correct name. Which is exactly what's going on here. Certainly all those other possibilities should (and do) have redirects. I welcome any suggestions for how to disambiguate it *accurately*.
The problem is that of the two names, the first is now disparaged, and the second is, well, it. And was explicitly and deliberately chosen to not have "United States" in the name.
The rule of thumb, seems to me, should be: give the correct information, and if it's confusing, explain the confusion. --Tb 02:00 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I suppose it's fine now, the confusing aspects are explained. I changed the example to the Middle East, because I thought that was the Church most likely to be be thought of as the Episcopal Church. (because of the in) - Efghij 02:40 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Ok, perhaps it is. It's one of the newest Provinces of the Anglican Communion (at least, with this name). Actually, outside the US, even when "Episcopal" is an official part of the name, the word "Anglican" is more often heard, and I suspect this is true in the Middle East as well. The only substantial exceptions are the Philippines and Scotland, I think. It's also multinational, which makes it a better example too, I think. --Tb 02:42 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)
It is important to appreciate that just as the Episcopal Church in the USA has several acceptable names, "Scottish Episcopal Church" is not the only name of the episcopal church of Scotland. "Episcopal Church", "Episcopal Church of Scotland", "Scottish Episcopal Church", "Episcopal Church in Scotland" are all used. (the last can be found on the title page of the Scottish Book of Common Prayer). More generally, Episcopal can be a synonym for Anglican.
In other words, the Scottish church is not the <Scottish Episcopal> Church, it is the Scottish <Episcopal Church>. Wikipedia users from Scotland should not be faced with an article that says:
'"The Episcopal Church" = (ECUSA)......The "Scottish Episcopal Church" on the other hand can be found (several paragraphs down)... '
So either the title should change or there should be a clear disambiguation paragraph _at the top_. Seeing as Scots are quite aware that theirs is not the only Episcopal Church in the world (is the same true the other way around?), I think the second option is probably more user-friendly. Andrew Yong 08:55, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Noting that National Headquarters at 815 should be there probably, the official name used here is "Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America". I agree that one should used the abreviated as the title for the article, however one need not use that to refer to it within other articles as the link to this page is easily altered in appearance, thus one could use ECUSA or plainly the Episcopal Church in reference to this article, just making sure they have ARTICLENAME|ECUSA in their link.
I noticed a change in the first sententce (fixing vandalism) that also changed
"The Episcopal Church or the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America is the American national church of the Anglican Communion."
to
"The Episcopal Church or the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America is an American national church of the Anglican Communion." (Emphasis added)
As far as I know, the Anglican Communion only recognizes one institution per nation. For various reasons the choice of article (the/an) is currently very politically charged and keeping NPOV seems to require a decision one way or the other. An official list of members only lists the ECUSA for the United States.
Robwaldo 03:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
As of the 2006 General Convention, the official name of this instiution is "The Episcopal Church" abreviated TEC. "in the United States of America" has officially been removed due to the solidification of the IXth province consisting of primarilly central/south american and carribean provinces. One wonders if this should be changed to "The Episcopal Church (TEC)" to reflect their recent official name change.
CJJDay 05:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Right, is it just me, or does the new paragraph that has been added about the election of a homosexual bishop strike anyone else as seeming superfluous in context? It doesn't fit the flow of the page, and, further, without having mentioned in depth other means by which the Episcopal Church traditionally defines itself on the page (e.g. scripture, reason, tradition; or the Book of Common Prayer) it seems rather strange to devote a paragraph to a simple matter of current events. Besides, Gene Robinson covers the issue fully and within context.
I'm going to take down the paragraph; if anyone disagrees with my reasons, please throw your opinions up here on talk. --Charleschuck 20:21, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The source of my recent edit comes directly from the Canon Law of the ECUSA. See Title II, Canon 7, Sec. 6, subsection B: It's reproduced here:
(b). It shall be the duty of the Custodian of the Standard Book of Common Prayer:
1. To arrange for the publication of such proposed revision;
2. To protect, by copyright, the authorized text of such revision, on behalf of the General Convention; which copyright shall be relinquished when such proposed revision or revisions shall have been adopted by the General Convention as an alteration of, or addition to, the Book of Common Prayer;
3. To certify that printed copies of such revision or revisions have been duly authorized by the General Convention, and that the printed text conforms to that approved by the General Convention.
See http://www.mit.edu/~tb/anglican/legal/gc.canons.html. -iHoshie 10:06, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
It's true that the Custodian is responsible for ensuring that the text passed by the General Convention is the text that is published. However, the Custodian is in no way responsible for creating that text; in the case of the 1979 BCP, that happened over the course of 25 years of discussion by liturgical scholars, priests, and lay leaders, and was approved by General Convention. I've removed the sentence for clarification, and will add more information about how the BCP text is decided upon.
00527 14:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
No offence, but why should there be a template of approved translations of the bible on the translation's pages? If a person wants to know which translation are approved by the Episcopal Church, they would search for 'The Episcopal church'. As it is, the pages for several translations (none, I am aware of, are specific to the Episcopal Church) are now cluttered with an ugly template. Are we going add templates for all translations aproved by the Southern Baptist Convention, Latter-Day Saints, Local Church Movement, Watchtower Society, etc? The RSV and KJV would have dozens of little boxes at the bottom.
If there are no objections, I will be removing these soon.
What is the difference? I know that Episcopalians don't follow the Pope. What else? Do E. believe in the Holy Trinity? Do they celebrate Mass or have a Holy Eucharist? Is there a stress on a particular doctrine, eg. Baptists with baptism, Pentecostals with gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc. Do the preachers, reverrends, etc. have to be celibate? Is there an official Episcopalian stand on abortion, cloning? Can woment be pastors, reverrends, etc.--Jondel 03:44, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
To add to that, generally, in Anglican churches, unity comes from practice: all Anglican churches are liturgical churches following some version of the Book of Common Prayer or a derivative of it. In most congregations, Holy Eucharist (sometimes called "mass") is the primary service on Sundays. In Anglicanism, there are three orders of ordained ministry: deacons, priests and bishops. In ECUSA, all three orders are open to women. Celibacy is not required of clergy.Rockhopper10r 22:58, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
The Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America are indeed in full communion: Rockhopper10r 9 July 2005 17:08 (UTC)
Only two dioceses have two full-fledged cathedrals: Iowa and Minnesota. The Diocese of Lexington has a cathedral and a "cathedral domain", which is essentially a chapel at the diocesan conference centre. The Diocese of Pennsylvania has one: Philadelphia Cathedral (formerly Church of the Redeemer). The Diocese of Bethlehem, in Pennsylvania has one cathedral (Nativity, Bethlehem) and a pro-cathedral (St. Stephen's, Wilkes-Barre). We can add a bit about some dioceses having a pro-cathedral, but it is not technically the same thing as having two cathedrals.Rockhopper10r 18:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Can you tell me where you got this information? I've never heard of any diocese not referring to the seat of its bishop as its cathedral. Thanks.
00527 14:23, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The paragraph as written implied that "High Church," "Low Church," etc. are specific churches; in fact, they are styles of worship. Within an individual parish, for example, there can be a "Low Church" service at one time and a "High Church" service at another. I have removed it for the sake of clarification.
There can be theological differences associated with each group, but those are a very marginal aspect of the Church as a whole, and don't really merit inclusion in a general article.
00527 14:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I've added a succession box to the bottom of the Frank Grimes page. Edmond Lee Browning is the previous presiding bishop but does not have a page.
It might be worthwhile to add pages for them. Or perhaps not. Markkawika 13:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Do you mean Frank Griswold?
Deaghaidh 9:32, 20 January 2006 (EST)
Neither of these are included in the provinces listed in the first paragraph, yet they are both under the jursidiction of the Presiding bishop, and should be included.
Convocation of American Churches in Europe : Brussels, Paris, Frankdfurt, Weisbaden, Munich, Genvea, Florence, and Rome.
The adjective in the title, describing the church, is "Episcopal", but the adjective I usually see describing people, schools, etc, that belong to the church is "Episcopalian". Is this viewed as incorrect by ECUSA members? I ask because I keep seeing edits around wikispace (almost invariably from anon IPs) that replace "Episcopalian" with "Episcopal", which sounds odd to me. /blahedo (t) 03:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Columbia University's list of "250 Greatest Alumni" describes Jay as, among other things, "a founder of the American Episcopal church". Is there any truth to this? Thanks! --198.59.190.201 06:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
A new WikiProject focussing on Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion has just been initiated: WikiProject Anglicanism. Our goal is to improve and expand Anglican-reltaed articles. If anyone (Anglican or non-Anglican) is interested, read over the project page and consider signing up. Cheers! Fishhead64 06:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Bard College is currently listed under Colleges affiliated with the Episcopal Church. While, historically, Bard maintained a relationship with the Church, and served as a seminary for many years, the college has been non-sectarian and unaffiliated with the church for many years. I thought I would note this here and allow discussion before removing this particular factual inaccuracy. Burndownthedisco talk 04:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Unless this is a new development, the Episcopal Church officially recognizes Bard College as an affiliated institution in the 2006 Church Annual. In addition the Bard College article affirms this affiliation. Furthermore, as a part of the affiliation, Bard's college chaplain is an Episcopal priest. It should not be removed. CJJDay 05:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I find that I have to bring up the name argument again and argue for the use of Protestant Episcopal Church (whether or not in the USA comes after or not.) I realize that in common use, and as of several years ago in legal use, that the term Episcopal Church refers to the major Anglican body in the U.S. However, the term Episcopal Church is not affirming of, and rather offensive to, those religious bodies who are also episcopal churches (i.e. those with an episcopacy), not limited to but including the Eastern Orthodox Churches, Roman Catholic Church, Armenian Apostolic Church, etc. I argue for the use of the term Protestant Episcopal Church on this website (which strives for impartiality), since: 1.) this was formely the most widely used term, 2.) is still a current legal term for that body, 3.) is used by a few organizations connected with that body (such as the Protestant Episcopal Cathedral Foundation in Washington, DC), and 4.) that body still retains legal ownership of that name (as was established somewhat recently in court).
I know many argue that the use of Protestant Episcopal implies to some that this body is not catholic. However, the term protestant simply means opposed to papal supremacy and, by Anglican understanding, this need not be opposed to the term catholic. In fact, the term Protestant Catholic Church was used for many years in colonial Maryland. I know very few Anglicans who would agree with the statement that, "Anglicans are (or should be) directly under the authority of the pope." Perhaps, this sensitive issue could be considered...
MiguelJoseErnst 06:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I think this naming question got hashed out fairly well at Talk:Episcopal Church (disambiguation).
Apparently, in modern English, Episcopal no longer means the same thing as episcopal, and wiktionary isn't the only dictionary to say so. It seems the capitalized meaning was directly inspired by Scotland and USA's Anglican churches. Unfortunately, all Wikipedia articles start with an upper case letter, but fortunately, the vast majority of editors that write a wikilink to [[episcopal]] or [[Episcopal]] really do intend to link to [[Episcopal Church in the United States of America]], or would do if they knew that the word "episcopal" just means "of a bishop".
You will find now that the following titles redirect to Episcopal Church in the United States of America :
As the exception to the rule, Episcopalian redirects to Anglicanism (another great article). My reasoning for that exception is at Talk:Episcopalians.
There is a link at the top of the ECUSA article to Episcopal Church (disambiguation), that in turn links to Bishop as well as to several churches with Episcopal in their name. It solves most peoples problems of being able to navigate the encyclopedia easily, but unfortunately, it reflects the English language's bias in favor of Anglican Episcopal churches over perhaps a billion Christians in other churches with bishops and episcopal polity.
I set the cat amongst the pigeons in August, and in September, we fixed up the disambiguation page and made ECUSA the primary topic for Episcopal and Episcopal Church. That is the best we have done so far, and seems to have been quietly accepted; prior to August, the situation was a confusing mess. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
header 1 | header 2 | header 3 |
---|---|---|
row 1, cell 1 | row 1, cell 2 | row 1, cell 3 |
row 2, cell 1 | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 |
What if the article was named The Episcopal Church (USA)? That would seem to fix all the problems people have pointed out.Bremkus 17:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
A mention of the Anglican Mission in America was recently added to this article under the Liberal and Conservative sub-heading. I removed that mention for the time being because, as writ, the addition seemed misleading. This is the removed text:
The Anglican Mission in America, a conservative group, attempts to provide an alternative to the Episcopal Church in the United States of America, while remaining Anglican. The AMiA opposes the ordination of women and homosexuals.
This appears to suggest that AMiA is a legitimate alternative within the Anglican Communion, an assertion contradicted vehemently by Archbishop George Carey (see , , and .) However, I do think AMiA should be mentioned here, partly because of the controversey surrounding the "illegal" consecration of bishops, and also because several clergy (and in fact entire parishes) left ECUSA for AMiA in 2000 through 2002. I also believe that the various difficulties with AMiA were part of the reason behind the creation of the ACN, and also why the ACN is structured within ECUSA as opposed to breaking away. I am however having trouble finding references to that effect. As a side note, the above statement regarding the ordination of women is partially incorrect in that AMiA does ordain women to the diaconate, and also recognises the ordination women priests who have left ECUSA, although they have decided not to ordain any more women to the priesthood themselves.
Any thoughts? --Wine Guy Talk 20:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that Jen Kilmer had deleted the entire controversies section of this article. I do not believe that such deletion is appropriate, nor do I believe that the other editors who had contributed to that section will agree that such edit was appropriate. The section deleted:
I hope that we can discuss the afore-going deletion to resolve this issue in a manner worthy of the subject.--Black Flag 18:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Someone changed the "ECUSA" and "PECUSA" redirects to point to the Continuing Anglican article. I believe I have now fixed this. Is there anyway to lock the redirect pages???Bremkus 04:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
All articles need updating, but whoever did the last update gerrymandered this article. It looks like hell! Pretty bad for a church. And who added their buddy's pictures for examples of vestments? A crude way to make it on the www? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thurifer (talk • contribs) 07:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC).
I just read the main article and this talk page. I think the article is almost embarassing. What does it say about a communion if adherents can't even agree on a name? Also, what is wrong with the stereotypes that Episcopalians are upper-class, elegant and politically powerful? I am thinking of all my favorite Episcocat jokes. I am being a bit humorous but I am also disheartened. Episcopalians can do better! 75Janice 19:33 UTC, 13 December 2006
I am involved in a discussion with another editor at the article on Talk:George Washington and religion and need someone who is familiar with Anglican theology and dogma (and especially that of the late 1700s) to comment. Here is the discussion in brief... the article talks about the fact (well documented) that George Washington was not a communicant (ie was never seen to take communion) and would often leave devine services before communion. Given the context of the article, it is implied that this indicates he was a Deist. I question this implication ... I think that it might indicate that he was a "Low Church" Anglican. I do understand that I can not add such information to the article - as my personal conclusions would constitute Original Research. But I would like confirmation of whether my thinking is on the right track or not. Unfortunately, I do not know enough about the Church of England at the time, especially the different attitudes of High and Low Church, to know one way or the other. I tried an RFC, but that is being removed as there is not an actual dispute going on (I am trying to find out if there IS something to dispute). I hope someone here can help. I have also posted this on the Anglicanim page. Blueboar 19:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
This is another major issue with the mainstream Church of England. The Episcopal Church unlike the mainstream Church of England and Rowan Williams himself approves same-sex unions and even non-celibate gay and lesbian clergy and bishops. I am just stating facts. The entry should also mention these recent events, related to the first lesbian bishop, Mary Glasspool: "The future of the worldwide Anglican Communion was in jeopardy last night after the Archbishop of Canterbury said that the election of a lesbian bishop in the United States raised “very serious questions”. / Dr Rowan Williams added that the choice of Canon Mary Glasspool to be a suffragan bishop in Los Angeles had “important implications”. The election of Canon Glasspool, who has lived with the same female partner since 1988, is the second appointment of an openly homosexual bishop in the US Episcopal Church. It confirmed fears among evangelicals in the Anglican Communion of more than 70 million people that crucial votes at last summer’s General Convention of the Episcopal Church had in effect ended the moratorium on gay bishops."81.193.215.3 (talk) 01:15, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
This article also shows Rowan Williams open criticism to this recent move: "Dr Rowan Williams criticises election of lesbian bishop, Mary Glasspool". It will be interesting to make a board with the main differences between the Church of England and the Episcopal Church in controversial issues.81.193.215.3 (talk) 01:22, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
The recent ordination of a non-celibate lesbian bishop, in a direct violation of the Lambeth Conference statements made in 1998 and 2008, and their departure from the Church of England over this and other controversial issues seems to raise the question if the Episcopal Church USA might be excluded from the Anglican Communion or to become autocephalus from it. Rowan Williams already criticized several times their moves but I don't know if he already expressed openly what he thinks about their eventual break or exclusion from the Anglican Communion. I found some links that discuss this question : "Dr Philip Giddings, Convener of Anglican Mainstream, England, and Canon Dr Chris Sugden, its Executive Secretary, issued a joint statement on MAY-15: "In her letter to the Primates, the Presiding Bishop of The Episcopal Church (TEC) Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, confirmed that the consecration of the openly gay Mary Glasspool is not a random event but comes from the settled mind of her church./ Sadly, this shows that TEC has now explicitly decided to walk apart from most of the rest of the Communion." "Since that decision by TEC has to be respected, it should result in three consequences. First, TEC withdrawing, or being excluded from the Anglican Communion's representative bodies. Second, a way must be found to enable those orthodox Anglicans who remain within TEC to continue in fellowship with the Churches of the worldwide Communion. Third, the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA) should now be recognized an authentic Anglican Church within the Communion." 1 (Statement from Anglican Mainstream following the consecration of Mary Glasspool as Suffragan Bishop of Los Angeles, USA," Anglican Mainstream, 2010-MAY-17, at: http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/) I know, it is a very controversial question but it should be discussed in here and added to the entry.85.244.227.132 (talk) 17:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
I have removed from the introductory section a lengthy paragraph dealing entirely with modern social issues such as abortion and gay rights. These matters, while important, are fully addressed in the appropriate body section. But by elevating them to the introduction, an article on a church with a 200+ year history is reoriented toward being a forum on which individuals can express their views on modern political matters or emphasize their pet causes. This trivializes the church and its long history, and implies that the most important facts to know about a religious organization, with its own extensive history, theology, structure, and membership, is its position on some current -- and, for all we know, transitory -- social controversy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsquire3 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies.
I note that the lead paragraph had not one, not two, but *three* sentences devoted to the question of the Episcopal Church's stand on gay rights. By contrast, only one sentence was devoted to the entirety of the church's 19th century history, while an additional sentence had to cover by itself the entirety of the death penalty and affirmative action. I think it fair to say that this reflects a rather severe imbalance in the lead toward a modern political issue that is likely to be of intense interest to some readers but hardly a central aspect of the church's very long history and complex theology and structure. I thus intend to reduce these three sentences in the lead to one to establish some degree of balance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsquire3 (talk • contribs) 00:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Not to mention also that the ECUSA is facing a possible exclusion from the Anglican Communion because of his departure from orthodox Anglicanism on the issue of homosexuality.81.193.215.60 (talk) 18:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
In the introduction, it is claimed that the Episcopal Church was active in the Social Gospel movement in the late nineteenth century. In the article on the Social Gospel, it does not mention the Episcopal Church at all until it considers the question of what effect the Social Gospel movement might have on today's churches. Furthermore, it claims the movement peaked in the early twentieth century. If the Episcopal Church was involved in the nineteenth century, and potentially involved today, why wasn't it involved at the peak of the movement? Or is the Social Gospel article wrong? It talks more about other strains of American Protestantism, like Rauschenbusch, and does not mention F. D. Maurice, who despite being Anglican was not Episcopalian. Perhaps we are being a bit too imprecise in our application of terms related to Christian social concerns here?--Bhuck (talk) 22:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Currently in the membership section, there is a reference to an article from the Christian Century, reporting a membership loss of 115,000 for the period 2003-2005. This does not agree with the figures here. These statistics show a membership in 2003 of 2,433,340; for 2005 the number is 2,372,592. By my arithmetic that is a difference of 60,748, not 115,000. Even if we only look at the US membership, the decline is slightly less than 80,000 over the same time period, though arguing that the ordination of Gene Robinson would cause a growth in membership in overseas dioceses of 20,000 baptized members would also seem a bit far-fetched. Furthermore, looking at the figures from 2003 (the first year that overseas dioceses were included in the statistics) until 2010, the two-year period selected does not seem to stand out as having a higher or lower rate of loss than any other two-year period. I therefore do not quite understand why that period is picked out. I added some statistics for 1967-69 to try to balance this, but it still seems that someone has picked these two years as a way of trying to make a political POV argument, which is not appropriate for Wikipedia.--Bhuck (talk) 13:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
In 2009, the 76th General Convention of the Episcopal Church passed Resolution 2009-D010, which requests: “ . . . that all documents, communications, legislation, and publications that refer to The Episcopal Church use terminology that consistently reflects our international character, rather than using inaccurate and non-inclusive terms and names such as ‘the National Church . . . etc.”
The explanation of this resolution goes on to state: “The terminology used to refer to the Episcopal Church should reflect the fact that the Episcopal Church is truly an international, multilingual and multicultural body that can no longer be understood merely as a national, monolingual, or monocultural organization.” <http://gc2009.org/ViewLegislation/view_leg_detail.aspx?id=945&type=Final>
The first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry for the Episcopal Church outlines this international nature, as do official media releases that are issued from the denominational headquarters: “ The Episcopal Church welcomes all who worship Jesus Christ in 109 dioceses and three regional areas in 16 nations. The Episcopal Church is a member province of the worldwide Anglican Communion.” <http://www.episcopalchurch.org/notice/episcopal-presiding-bishop-archbishop-desmond-tutu-discuss-mission-live-webcast>.
In consideration of this, the Communication Office of the Episcopal Church denominational headquarters respectfully requests that the title of this Wikipedia entry be changed to simply “The Episcopal Church”. If that is too ambiguous, can anyone suggest a more appropriate alternative? Please advise - Thank you. Matisse412 (talk) 15:45, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article. If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change.
If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the page name. Otherwise, do not include it at the beginning of the page name. — Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name)
Thank you for this information. If we are able to come up with a reasonable alternative name, I will be back in touch via this talk page. Matisse412 (talk) 15:13, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
As an Episcopalian, I was quite surprised to see that my Church is "formally known" as "The Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society"...because it isn't. After searching the archives, I noticed that this was brought up previously in the past, but correctly rejected as an archaic full name for the Church's national corporate body. In other words, it's both irrelevant to the introduction and misleading (it makes the Episcopal Church sound like an evangelical one, which it on the whole is not.) Furthermore, the only instance that occurs in the body of the article isn't even redlinked, and the two provided references do not provide support for it being the church's "formal name." In fact, the 2006 constitution clearly states "Canon 3 (Of the Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society), Article 1: This organization shall be called the Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, and shall be considered as comprehending all persons who are members of the Church" (emphasis added); making a clear distinction between the Church itself and one of its governing organizations.
As such, I have removed it from the lede, and replaced it with the proper long form name. Please don't regard this as a POV edit, but simply as a correction by someone who has firsthand experience with the Church. Cheers, Zaldax (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm seeing some errors in the "Parishes and dioceses" section. I believe a parish does not elect a bishop's committee. Eligibility to a Vestry depends upon the cannons of the particular parish and diocese etc. 174.52.43.207 (talk) 05:25, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
After reading this article, I am surprised it is rated B class. The whole section on high and low is unreferenced OPINION. "Very" high??? Come on! It either needs a reference that it is somehow different qualitatively from High Episcopal or should be removed. I, personally, have never heard of it (but then again I've not been an active member for decades). I challenge the existence of a recognized body of "very high" churches. The use of the word "very" in describing the most formal of the "High Episcopal" hardly justifies a separate category (in my opinion, its more about size of the Church (and how deep its pockets are) that distinguishes how "high" a High Church service is). The structure description is really bad, all it does it toss jargon around. Actually, I came to this piece to find out what the status is of priests. I find it odd that that term is not contrasted with other priests (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.). I also find it odd that the formal title of the various Church positions are not spelled out. I guess if a Bishop is a active homosexual, then the reader doesn't have to be told that priests are allowed to marry? (Why not? Why not spell out major differences with other priesthoods?). It might also be useful to contrast priests with ministers and reverends and spell out the differences. Also, who is and who is not "clergy" needs explanation. FWIWAbitslow (talk) 20:34, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Something regarding the recent Primates Communiqué should go in the article, but we must be careful to give it balanced and accurate coverage. It is not correct to say that TEC is suspended from the Anglican Communion. Exactly what the statement says is "for a period of three years TEC no longer represent us on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, should not be appointed or elected to an internal standing committee and that while participating in the internal bodies of the Anglican Communion, they will not take part in decision making on any issues pertaining to doctrine or polity." Since the suspension relates to participation on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, it should go in the ecumenical relations section, not in the lead, which is for summarizing the entire article. Jonathunder (talk) 01:58, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, this is a good conversation. Also, Archbishop Welby clarified at the ACC in Lusaka that the Primates' Meeting does not have legal authority over any province. SeminarianJohn (talk) 09:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
In the second paragraph of this B-class article there is the content The Episcopal Church describes itself as "Protestant, Yet Catholic".. From a writing point of view this would suggest that "Yet Catholic", with a capitalized Y following a comma, is some branch of the Catholic belief. I am not familiar with such a branch so surely this is an unintended capitalized word right? Otr500 (talk) 15:45, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
I would like to suggest adding sub-headings under the social issues section. Currently there are paragraphs about financial equality, LGBT issues, abortion, and racial equality, which have nothing in common other than their categorization as "social issues." If this change is made, I believe it would allow each section to be fleshed out more fully, as well as make the article more organized and easy to read. Any thoughts on this proposal?
Michelangelo1992 (talk) 22:38, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
The Anglicanism series template was recently removed from this article and I have reverted it as per WP:BRD. I strongly believe it should be included because it leads to many in-depth links that discuss the theology and history of the Episcopal church, and provides a centralized location for these resources instead of forcing readers to pick through the article for these links.
The relevant help page says that every article that transcludes a given navbox should "normally" be bidirectional. However, since there are so many sub-jurisdictions of the Anglican Communion, I think it would be unwieldy to expect them all to be included in the template. However, if consensus arises, I would be happy to add a collapsible section to the Anglicanism template listing all sub-jurisdictions and thus making the template bidirectional (for this page and every other Anglican page as well). Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks, Michelangelo1992 (talk) 02:32, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello Jonathunder - could you please explain why you reverted my edit and removed the {when} tag? Thanks in advance. __209.179.9.46 (talk) 18:52, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Section 9 could use some clarification, and probably some expansion. I am not knowledgable, or I would tackle it. Rags (talk) 10:46, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Request info on membership distribution, ideally state by state3AUG2017Clive sweeting
Seamless Wikipedia browsing. On steroids.
Every time you click a link to Wikipedia, Wiktionary or Wikiquote in your browser's search results, it will show the modern Wikiwand interface.
Wikiwand extension is a five stars, simple, with minimum permission required to keep your browsing private, safe and transparent.