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I am interested in the assertion that "Charles was not fully to blame". I would contend that he was absolutely to blame (and I think a goodly number of civil war historians will be queuing up behind me in this respect). Or shall we just put it down to society and a deprived childhood :-) user:sjc
I deleted this from the article: "This would appear to indicate that Charles has been canonised as a saint within the Anglican communion." The Anglican Church has no process of canonisation. It does occasionally add saints to its liturgical calendar by acts of councils of bishops. But Charles is either on the calendar or not, and until we find out, we shouldn't guess: the fact that some churches are named for him should suffice. An Anglican saint is fundamentally different, of course, from a Catholic or Orthodox saint, as Anglicans would insist their saints are not to be venerated. -- Someone else 04:30 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)
Oy. Please break up this dense text into paragraphs. -- Zoe
I haven't altered the text that baldly states that Charles was attempting to bring the Church of England "closer to Rome", although this is untrue. Certainly that is was how it was perceived by the Puritans, but Laud was in no way seeking a rapprochement with the Papacy, which is what the current text implies. Rather, Laud was a leader of a tradition in the church that regarded Anglicanism as a legitimate part of the universal catholic church. But as the concept of the church in itself as an institution was unimportant to the Puritans, they saw this as a Romanist tendancy. But the article itself is not a place to debate this, so I left it. --djnjwd
You are factually correct so by all means go and change it. You seem to have a far greater grasp of the facts than the person who wrote the current version. ÉÍREman 01:38 Apr 20, 2003 (UTC)
Should Charles be referred to as "King of England, Scotland, and Ireland," that is to say, of the countries he actually ruled, or as "King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland," that is to say, by the style which he actually used? I think the case can be made either way... john 05:19, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)
God Bless Charles defender of the Cathloic faith and sevant of the Holy father. May Cromwell rot in Hell.
--wow, is that really necessary? doesnt seem like it belongs here...
I've changed the succession table to indicate Charles II as Charles I's successor. Although he did not immediately de facto succeed his father, neither did Cromwell. But Charles II was the next king after his father. Furthermore, under official British jurisprudence, Charles II is considered to have de jure succeeded immediately upon his father's death, and for certain purposes (e.g. peerage creations), this has genuine effect. john 03:28, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I don't know if I agree with this... we include "Empress Maud" and "Jane Grey" in the succession, and I feel they had less of an impact than Cromwell did. To a certain extent, I understand your argument that Cromwell wasn't exactly a monarch, but he did indeed act in a monarchical role during his time as Lord Protectorate. I feel that we would be "altering history" so-to-speak to leave him out of the succession menu, as it would confuse the casual reader. Perhaps we could include in that succession menu/table a link to information about the "temporary republic," instead of Cromwell? To at least make clear the fact that there was a gap worth many years in between Charles I and II? --Wolf530 04:23, Mar 23, 2004 (UTC)
Wolf530 makes a good point. Cromwell may not have been a king but he was very much a monarch. -- Derek Ross 04:30, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Well, I tend to think Maud, at least, should not be in the succession table, and I'd dispute Jane Grey, as well. But a) while Cromwell may have been a de facto monarch, he was certainly not a de jure one; and b) Cromwell's protectorship did not immediately follow upon Charles I's death. There was a period when executive authority was vested by parliament in a Council of State, or some such, from 1649-1653. I would be happy with "Commonwealth" or "Republic" as successor to Charles I and predecessor to Charles II. john 06:43, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
A few things to consider:
I note two things which are wrong. 1) There was no vote in the special court which convicted Charles I and the legend about Cromwell is incorrect. Charles was convicted automatically because he refused to recognise the court and enter a plea. 2) There is some doubt as to whether Brandon, the public executioner, did actually behead the King. The executioner was masked. It is known definitely that Brandon refused when first offered. There are many alternative candidates. J.G. Muddiman's 'The Trial of Charles I' discusses the issue in some depth and advances an alternative theory, although the rampant Monarchism of this book makes it somewhat dubious as a source.Dbiv 12:36, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
3) Here's another one. Nice article, by the way. But I have to wince at the lead-in. The British didn't fear he would become an absolute monarch. He was one! That was the issue, whether he was going to continue as absolute monarch in an absolute monarchy or parliament was going to limit his power. Parliament had no right to do that. The king's will was law. Officialy they were only there to help him carry it out. But they were tired of that role and the British were tired of absolute monarchs. No, the question was not whether the king would assume too much, but of whether the British people would assume too much. The king had all the power and didn't feel he could give any up. This was the first overthrow of an absolute monarch in Europe. The last one went away in 1918. To directly oppose any British king before Charles II meant your head on a pole or hanging in chains at the crossroads. I'm not doing this article so I'm not going to change it right now. Somebody should if accuracy is as important as style and format. If not, history needs to be rewritten anyway.Dave 04:27, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh, PS, gee whiz. The king was not attempting to augment anything by way of power. He was not advocating divine right of kings. The issue was not even in question until parliament raised it! Parliament was only there to serve the king. If it did not the opposing members could be tried for treason. The king was secure in his legal rights. He ruled by divine right. Mary's right was divine. Elizabeth's right was divine. Henry the 8th's right was divine. He didn't even need the pope! Charles I was actually a very nice family man, but a terrible bumbler. He was very hurt and very upset that parliament would not do as he asked; moreover, he did not understand in the least why. If he could have agreed to a limitation of his power they would have let him live, even reign. As for Charles II, he did not establish or reestablish one solitary thing. He was invited, invited, mind you, to come back by parliament at the instigation of the chief puritan general, General Monck, to avoid further disintegration of the state. Charles II was very careful what he said and did. He insisted on nothing and questioned parliament not at all, although he did dismiss it toward the end of his reign when things were going very well. He ruled by being the nicest king ever and with secret French funds. I dare say, someone ought to actually read a book on the topic.Dave 04:46, 30 January 2006 he was a loving man.......but ......(UTC)
This should not have been a featured article - there are some glaring issues. The word "republic" was NOT used contemporaneously to describe the Commonwealth. He was hardly opposed by parliament and by puritans - those puritans who opposed him did so as parliamentarians. --Cruci 21:58, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed (and forgive me if someone else already did) that the person listed in this article as Charles' father is James I of Scotland. This is incorrect, since his father was James I of England. When you click on the link it takes you to the page James I of Scotland, who ruled some 200 years before James I of England and is not Charles' father. The whole line of succession thing and hyperlinks therein are then also wrong. I do not know how to fix it, but hoping someone will so some poor kid doing research doesn't screw up and adults with a history jones aren't disappointed!
66.44.127.67 05:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)KT
Who is the Lady Carey who reportedly took care of him in 1604? Any relation to Lady Catherine Carey or her brother Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon? User: Dimadick
Remember people, its worth not getting sucked in towards a particular sway of opinion. I must say I was left aghast by the number of articles that glibly branded Cromwell's regime a "military dictatorship" making no reservations for the spectrum of historical thought. After all, for every Abbott, there is a Coward.
Just wondering if anyone has a problem with PoV in this section. Stuff like "tried for the murder" when it's a (more or less) legal execution or refering to the leaders of the revolution "regicides". Yes, they caused a monarch to be executed, but regicide makes me think cloak and daggers, poisoned wine, not public execution. Just seems not as neutral as it could be. Any thoughts?
Don't worry. I've changed them all. The whole article is terribly biased in favor of Stuart Absolutism, and I think this is just plainly ridiculous. The person who wrote the article should himself be first hauled to be Court of Star Chamber, and tortured on the rack, then have his body hanged, drawn and quartered. That would certainly teach him a lesson or two about absolute monarchy.
Ah, I should've known this a little better. The Court of Star Chamber cannot put any man to death. Fine. We'll put this author, whoever he is, on the rack, have him confess to whatever crime not known to the law, and then have him re-tried at the Court of King's Bench, then we'll have him hanged, drawn and quartered. This should definitely satisfy his taste for absolute monarchy.
The sentence "members held the Speaker down in his chair whilst three resolutions against Charles were read aloud." confuses me slightly. Why was he unwilling to listen, and why was he made to? --Spudtater 17:34, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
The last sentence of this section is broken: "Due to an unstable absolute power, assassination or capture was at risk for the king and many close nobles including instructors Thomas Hobbes and John Pym." I assume it's trying to say that there was an elevated risk of assassination for several people due to the instability brought on by the King's failure to summon parliament. Having no perspective on the issue, I don't want to make the edit myself. Cerowyn (talk) 20:08, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Charles I is currently in Category:Saints. Surely this is wrong. (If it is actually true, it should be stated explicitly.) Rd232 13:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I note that Clem claims above that "the Anglican church only have two post-reformation saints". If this is so, then presumably the claim in Charles_I_of_England that "Charles is also the only person to be canonized by the Church of England since the English Reformation" is wrong? Who was the other? How does Charles' canonisation differ from people such as Josephine Butler being added to the calendar? Did the demotion of Charles in Victorian times make him a "saint" no longer in official Anglicanism?--PeterR 15:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
What about the Ugandan martyrs, various reformation martyrs etc? I know that they all have Book of Common Prayer feast days on this side of the Pond (US) but I don't know what the Church of England has said about them. If they are on the calender, though, as per the comment above that mentioned there isn't anything more for recognition in Anglicanism, I think this would make the whole lot "saints." Wilhelm Ritter 18:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I actually once knew someone who referred to him as "King Charles the Martyr", so I guess that there are people still out there who think of him that way. Being a Welshman of decidedly Roundhead sympathies, I replied that no, he was Charles the Bloody Fool. A frigid silence then fell for the remainder of the car journey. Darkmind1970 16:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
There is no reason why you can't be a saint and a fool at the same time. Nennius 9/12/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nennius (talk • contribs) 21:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
It would probably be best to clarify that Charles was Charles I of England, but not of Scotland. He was in fact Charles VII of Scotland. -- QwertyMIDX
In Scotland shouldn't his title be Charles, King of Scots? Nennius, 1/8/07
"The oil painting was made on canvas around 1636, and is an example of how Van Dyck tended to mask Charles I's small stature, portraying him in a more dignified manner."
I just made a couple of changes to this article eliminating some obvious trolling. I became aware of them while following the link from the front page, where this article is being featured.
Did no one lock the article from editing, or at least check it for trolling, before letting it hit the featured section?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.137.25.113 (talk • contribs) 00:51, 30 January 2006 (UTC) (UTC)
We don't protect featured articles for reasons explained here Raul654 03:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
i'm sure the ones who have this article on watchlist must have noticed that many unregistered users have started bashing it. is there no way to prevent that? i was thinking maybe a little restriction on who actually edits it, like, allowing only the registered users? i'm getting tired at deleting their stupidities ilya 08:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC) hello everyone
There is a paragraph beginning: "It should be noted here that the lawlessness of the Court of Star Chamber under Charles I..." This can't be right surely? Whatever its faults it must have been lawful as it was the will of an absolute monarch.217.154.66.11 14:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
In the last sentence of the "Early Life", it's not clear to me who the antecedent of "his" and "him" are. From the logic of the paragraph, it could be either Charles I or James VI. I'm guessing it's James, as such a sentence about Charles should occur later in the article, but I'm not sure. Since I didn't know which it was, I was hoping I could point this out and suggest that a Wikipedian who knows this info could fix this sentence. Thanks! --Deville 14:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe it could be interesting to mention that Charles I is also the key character to Alexandre Dumas' novel "Twenty years after", the famous sequel to "The three Musketeers". This is the reason why many French people actually believe Charles I pronounced, while on the scaffold, the word: "Remember", which is totally apocryph. Up to you!
Erm... This is a featured article. You want to get rid of it because? --Young XenoNeon (converse) 19:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
The spelling error in the file name of the picture at the top of this article does us no credit. Somebody who knows how please fix it. Guinnog 20:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
* Or else convince me that 'Charels I' was a correct spelling! Guinnog 20:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Over the course oftime that this page was on the featured articles list this line from "Trial and execution" was removed and re written.
Origional: When Charles was beheaded on January 30, 1649, a moan was heard from the assembled crowd, some of whom then dipped their handkerchiefs in his blood, thus starting the cult of the "Martyr" King.
Re-write: Charles was beheaded on January 30, 1949. Do we want the origional refference to the martyr king re added? -- Faded_Mantis 01:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Why does it say this? He was king of all of Britain and Ireland A Geek Tragedy 16:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Since the article discusses the causes of Civil War and the Scottish Rebellion c. 1638, naming the articles 'Charles I of England' serves to overlook the problem of multiple kingdoms. It diminishes the case for Charles being to blame for the Scottish rebellion and English Revolution by legitimising, de facto, Charles' rule of England first and Scotland second. Charles was not primarily king of England; he was King of Scotland to an equal extent. England was not any more important than Scotland to the monarch de jure. The fact that Charles happened to give more time to ruling England was a contributing factor in his downfall. The article title should stick to de jure titles and obligations, not de facto elements of his rule. Burzhui 12:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but John Kenny's point about "european diplomacy" is misleading and inaccurate. Charles would have used his titles (plural). I doubt that anyone would argue against the case that 17th century England was a more substantial financial and military subject than Scotland, so I am confident Charles would have emphasised that crown over his other titles. However to suggest that, as England is the big deal, it's the correct title is just wrong. It was one of his titles. There is a disambiguation page for Charles I of Scotland. There should also be one for Charles I of England, Ireland and any other realms to which he had claim. These should all point to a page without one or other of his several titles. This is simply the only correct approach, irrespective of the relative sizes of his realms. Please correct this and restore the high standards we expect. As to Deano's point that he's "usually referred to as Charles I of England" - how does that help us? The current monarch of the UK, Elizabeth, is undoubtedly most commonly referred to as the "Queen of England", yet England does not even have any identifiable legal existence. Sloppy shorthand does not make a justification. Paul Coyne (talk) 21:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
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..- . - -.. -.. ..-. -..- .-..- .--. -.-.- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.72.7 (talk) 17:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
It is wrong to say that Cromwell assumed power after the execution of the king. Although undoubtedly a commanding voice, he was only one member of the Council of State which established the Commonwealth. His powers gradually increased after he became commander-in-chief of the army in the summer of 1650 (a post held prior to this by Sir Thomas Fairfax.)
One further small amendment. I've removed a reference to James Duke of Monmouth rising against the 'tyranny' of James II because I believe this to be a highly subjective statement. I have no doubt that is how Monmouth and his allies viewed the rising of 1685. Rcpaterson 23:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
If it was decided by the courts that the king was to be executed, why then was the executioner tried for regicide? That to me is like trying the electric-chair-people in Texas for murder (don't employ someone to do something you don't want them to do) --Username132 (talk) 18:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It's a different regime. I was following orders wasn't a defence at the Nurenburg Trials Bevo74 19:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
The information in the note beneath the portrait was not to the point, and innaccurate. The factual information about the portrait had been ommitted in favour of the speculative.
If one says that "this is an example of the way in which van Dyck masked Charles' small stature,portraying him in a more dignified manner", then the question must be asked, more dignified than what? Are tallness and dignity proportional to each other? I suspect that Charles I may have had dignity, whatever his height.
Moreover, because this portrait serves a particular purpose- the creation of a bust, then height is not an issue. The comment is irrelevant to this painting.
In the case of the other van Dyck reproduced here, the comment might be applied more readily, but in fact the artist has portayed Charles as a small man. His short stature is apparent in his proportions, which the artist has done nothing to disguise.
--Amandajm 15:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I think some mention of the historiography relating to Charles would be helpful in this article. Whig historians see Charles' death as the culmination of the 'revolution' in Parliament's power, that had started under Elizabeth; while others see Charles' death simply as the result of strong temporary internal dissatisfaction, linked to larger issues such as financial problems.
There are also some factual errors on this page: "A writ issued in 1634 ordered the collection of ship money in peacetime, notwithstanding statutes of Edward I and Edward III that had prohibited the levying of such a tax except during wars. This first writ of 1634, however, did not encourage much opposition on legal grounds, but a second writ of 1635 did. Charles' third writ demanding ship money, issued in 1636, made it clear that the ancient prohibition on collecting ship money during peacetime had been swept away". Charles claimed that he was collecting a war-time tax, as he fought against Turkish pirates that were disrupting trade in the Channel. Until recently this has been discredited, however it is now thought (c.f. Derrick Murphy's "Britain 1558-1667", published by Collins) that much of the money actually did go toward funding a navy to break up the pirate threat.
This is clearly a fallacy also: "This action of demanding ship money to be raised in peacetime aggravated rebellion thus forcing him to call parliament into session by 1640". Charles was ostensibly forced to call Parliament after his failure in the Second Bishops War, and the Scottish Army encamped itself in Northern England, demanding payment for every day that they stayed. Charles didn't have anything like the funds required, and so had to call Parliament in order to raise an army or pay the Scots. This of course, much retrograde to Charles' desires, resulted in the customary airing of grievances before they would grant the tax. Thus while Ship Money was a contributing factor to Charles' difficulties with Parliament, it was not the sole reason for his calling of Parliament.
This is a misrepresentation: "The Long Parliament assembled in November 1640 under the leadership of John Pym". Pym was not an official leader, he just became head of the Puritan reformers.
I took the lack of response to be accepting the change regarding ship money, so I have fixed that up and referenced Derrick Murphy's book as well. It's only a very basic piece of editing, I'm not sure how well it fits in with the overall scheme of the article, it's the conclusion to the "Tyranny or Personal Rule" part, so feel free to change it round a bit and delete some of the edits I made.--Deano 01:25, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
--User:AH DeanDeano 22:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
This entire article is poorly written and shows a clear and obvious bias against King Charles I. Not that it should be rewritten to show him as some paragon of perfection but this article doesn't make any attempt at neutrality. Tsk tsk.--cloviscat 1:44, 01 May 2007
The text says that Charles surrendered to the Scots at Newark and was taken to Southwell. However, the Saracen's Head pub in Southwell (then the King's Arms) has an official blue plaque claiming that Charles was arrested there disguised as a clergyman. Who is right? jimfbleak 08:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
here's the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography on the subject:
john k 19:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Possibly his has been discussed before but I find the title of the page slightly off-putting. Surely he was Charles 1st of Great Britain? His father was a Scottish monarch who inherited the English throne, not the other way around. Also, the Crowns were already formally united by the time Charles became king. It just seems wrong to have the official listing for him as Charles 1st of England. Why can't it be 'of Britain'? David Lauder 11:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed on the article that it states:
Charles is also the only person to be canonized by the Church of England since the English Reformation. [citation needed]
We are preparing a commemoration service for the Feast of S.Charles and so I was on the Society of King Charles the Martyr's web site. I happened to run across what I thought might be a citation for this article:
http://www.skcm.org/SCharles/scharles_main.html
I am unfamiliar with the citation process on this site but thought I would offer the aforementioned link. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.52.181.200 (talk) 18:56, 30 January 2007 (UTC).
Height: 4'7" or 5'4"?
I see that the beginning of the article states that Charles is in the Guinness book of records as the shortest king at 4'7", but that later in the same paragraph it states that he was 5'4". Given that he was an adult throughout his reign, and noting the Monte Python joke quoted at the end of the article, I conclude that he was only 4'7" or 4'8" during the last microsecond of his reign. Therefore, I'm deleting the Guinness reference while leaving in the Monte Python joke.Eldred 13:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a contradiction in the article. At one point it states that the words "Behold the head of a traitor" were used, and then a couple of paragraphs later it says that the words were not uttered. 86.1.161.152 11:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not happy with the sentence about King Charles and Archbishop Laud trying to move the C. of E. in a more ceremonial direction. I think what they were trying to insist on was a bare minimum of order in the way the services of the church were conducted. This included things like clergy wearing a distinctive form of dress while conducting services, reading the services from the Prayer Book, instead of using extempore forms, and not using the communion table for secular purposes. The present wording suggests that they were trying to impose the anglo-Catholicism of later centuries on the C. of E.
~~Nennius, 1/8/07~~
Some of this information is incorrect, such as the stating that he reintroduced the "obscelete ship money tax". This was never obscelete, only it was used only during times of emergency and was a one time charge. What he did do however was make it a permanent tax and cause all counties to pay it, rather than just the coastal ones. This area needs to be expanded to included other taxes such as forest fines too. --Chickenfeed9 18:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
James II of England is up for FA and will likely pass, leaving Charles II as the last Stuart monarch that's not an FA. Can someone construct a to-do list so Chuck here can join his forefathers? --Hemlock Martinis 19:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
What documentary evidence is there that Joanna Bridges was a natural daughter of Charles I, prior to Reginald Heber's Whole Works of Jeremy Taylor and Life of the author, in 1828? Heber obtained his information from Willaim Todd Jones of Lisburn, and his sisters Charlotte Wray and Mary Jones. The references cited are subsequent to 1828 and likely draw on Heber. bill spence 17:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
The succession boxes need fixing - Charles was seperately King of England & King of Ireland. GoodDay (talk) 23:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the boxes to include succession in Scotland, as the current setup suggests that the Commonweath was the immediate de facto successor in all kingdoms, when this was not the case. I have included links to the Covenanters in the new version. Reveilled (talk) 10:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Is 30 January 1649 old style or new style? We ought to be clear on stuff like that. john k (talk) 05:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
It's old style, although it assumes the year begins on 1 January rather than 25 March. Greycap (talk) 08:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
In the current article's "Legacy" section, the following sentence appears:
Of course, assuming that this sentence is actually true, it is informing us that there is at least one Anglican (or Episcopal) church that is specifically dedicated to this particular purpose in England, and in Canada, and in Australia, and in the United States.
Surely, it is obvious that, in order for this sentence to have a full impact, there must be either (a) four separate footnotes identifying each specific church by name and geographical location or, if each of the churches in question already have separate individual articles in the Wikipedia, (b) four specific Wiki-internal linkages to each of those Wiki-articles.
The current article's linkages to the nation states of Canada, Australia and the United States is not only absurd and insulting to the reader, but also significantly increases a (non-specialist) reader's frustration at a contributor who obviously knows so much but is prepared to share so little. So, please, will somebody please remove these irritatingly irrelevant links and, if possible, embellish the article with further relevant information.149.171.241.181 (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, as a little favour to Thehelpfulone, and at his request, which I'm happy to oblige too, here is a list of all the issues I can see at first look with the article:
{{Commons|Charles I of England}}
below the Wikiquote link - Done The Helpful One (Review) 21:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)Okay, that is all I can see on first look. Feel free to leave a note on my talkpage if you need help or would like to clarify any of these points. Qst (talk) 21:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, The Helpful One (Review) 17:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention in the article of the fact that Charles I is considered a Saint in the Anglican Church? Gavin (talk) 17:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone has put 'the sucker' after his name, I will delete this immediatly. 95jb14 (talk) 16:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Cromwell was not in the House of Commons when Charles tried to arrest the 5 members. A film about Cromwell suggested that this was so but in fact he fled with the other 5 members.Ojsaunders (talk) 19:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)2/3/2009
Legacy section ignores Scotland, where Charles II was proclaimed king as soon as news of the execution arrived. Peter jackson (talk) 10:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I recently uploaded a collection of several high-resolution high-quality images of Charles I. Although this article has many images already, I hope some of these may prove useful. Dcoetzee 09:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The sections of this article dealing with the early years of Charles's rule and the personal rule could use a general re-working, hopefully by someone who's well-versed in the historiography of the period. It makes little sense to keep editing sections until they are incoherent connections of "facts."
Also, the sources for the first pre-war sections are out of date or not even relevant in the actual study of the period. Charles did not declare war on Spain, Parliament did (granted at his encouragement), years before Charles became king. War was declared after the Spanish attacked Frederick after his defeat at White Mtn., which James had hoped would end the continental conflict. The resulting religious fervor led to Montagu publishing a New Gagg for an Old Goose. Montagu was (according to Richard Cust) asked by JAMES to clarify his position after "A New Gagg," and that resulted in Appello Ceasarum. Charles made Montagu a royal chaplain to end the Parliamentary debate on his work and encourage Parliament to vote on the funding bills before it instead of arguing about religious policy.
The predestination argument could at least be clarified if this section remains, although the amount of primary source works supporting a sustained dissent in the 30s is not strong at all. Charles was not opposed to compromise (he signed the Petition of Right). These are just from the 1620s.
Whomever wrote this article was either biased, or totally unaware of any historical studies written since 1975. Kevin Sharpe's Personal Rule would be a useful guide, as would Tom Cogswell's or Conrad Russell's work on the 1620s. I have no idea why Simon Schama's work is cited since he's by no means a specialist. Sharpe doesn't even agree that Charles had a stutter, and I've never actually heard that he had a thick Scottish accent. There are numerous historiographical debates smoothed over, at least clarify their existence.
In short, I did not read the post-1638 entries, but most of the pre-war stuff is badly done.Berkenhead (talk) 08:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
In the lead, is it really necessary to give the date of his execution in the very same sentence as you have just given the date of his death? SimonTrew (talk) 17:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Why is it King of England and not Scotland instead? Yes I'm aware he was King of both Kingdoms, however I think the title should "Charles I of Scotland", then "Charles I of England" should be a redirect. It should be Scotland because he was born in Scotland and because his parents were Scots making him Scottish and not English. The Stuart royal family were a Scottish family. Also the only reason he was King of England is because is Dad King James VI of Scotland was invited to the thrown of England after Elizabeth I died without an heir. I think it would be more logical for the title to be "Charles I of Scotland". IJA (talk) 22:07, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
The text reads: Of Charles's 14 great-great-grandparents, 5 were German, 4 Scottish, 1 English, 2 French, 1 Danish and 1 Polish, giving him a thoroughly cosmopolitan background. How was it that he had only 14 great-great grandparents. Shouldn't this number be 16 instead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schreckw (talk • contribs) 18:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
MANY times within this article, statements are made presenting a stance which is strongly bias against Charles with an unsourced statement, which supposed "many" people said. This is a violation of WP:WEASEL.
Also this sentence is unsourced."
A person who abores Charles has clearly made many biased and unvertified edits to this article. - Yorkshirian (talk) 07:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
'Many' is legitimate in the article (its used 15 times in total). It is more than one, fewer than all. It is somewhat colloquial, but does not define the number as a majority, nor does it specify only a small minority (as the word 'some' would suggest). 'Many' thus serves to underline the fact that there was a significant number of whatever is specified. In particular, the strength of support for Charles and his policies fluctuated over time, so to say a majority of MPs opposed Charles due to his exceptional use of royal prerogative would be misleading. Moreover, 'many' doesn't have any bias either in favour or in opposition to Charles within the article. --AnAbsolutelyOriginalUsername42 (talk) 18:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The first sentence of the second paragraph of the article makes no sense to me: "Religious icecream permeated Shermin's reign." Maybe vandalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.18.20.155 (talk) 16:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Pastors pasteurize religious icecream, which is more appetising to puritans' pallets than a diet of worms.
Page should probably be semi-protected to prevent random acts of vandalism. --AnAbsolutelyOriginalUsername42 (talk) 18:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The Oath of Allegiance section appears without any reference to it elsewhere in the article. Why is it there? --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Why does it say that 'early modern usage of such an oath was instituted by James I'. What about Henry's VIII Oath of Supremacy? I don't see the difference really, especially since Charles' oath retains the idea that Kingly authority is above the church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andwats (talk • contribs) 00:12, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed a suggestion that the death warrant was signed in Leicestershire. The supporting reference seems to be local tittle tattle. I am not aware of any reliable source that suggests the warrant was signed anywhere other than Westminster.
Text removed: ", possibly at the Red Lion Inn in Stathern, Leicestershire[1] on 29 January 1649" Rjm at sleepers (talk) 04:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Moreover, a personal quarrel erupted between Buckingham and the Spanish nation between whom was mutual misunderstanding and ill temper
How can one have a personal quarrel with a nation?!
Top.Squark (talk) 10:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Although he stated to Parliament that he would not relax restrictions relating to recusants, he promised to do exactly that in a secret marriage treaty with Louis XIII of France. Moreover, the price of marriage with the French princess was a promise of English aid for the French crown in the suppressing of the Protestant Huguenots at La Rochelle, thereby reversing England's long held position in the French Wars of Religion. The couple were married in person on 13 June 1625 in Canterbury and Charles himself was crowned on 2 February 1626 at Westminster Abbey, but without his wife at his side due to the controversy.
According to this article, Henrietta Maria was absent from the coronation because of the "controversy" i.e. due to the disapproval of the marriage and/or its terms within England. However, according to Puritan:
...he [Charles] married Henrietta-Marie de Bourbon of France... who refused to attend the coronation of her husband in a non-Catholic cathedral.
That is, Henrietta was absent out of her own choice.
Who is right?
Top.Squark (talk) 18:02, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Coronation of English monarchs is an Act of Communion of the English Church, and while Charles I was a member, even ex officio head, of the Church of England, Henrietta-Maria was throughout her life an unequivocally declared Catholic, therefore not within the Communion of Church of England and as such uneligible for coronation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.143.171.38 (talk) 13:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Do any "Catholic" churches, besides the Anglican Communion, specifically the Roman Catholic Church, have any official views on Charles I? I know he is not recognized as a Saint in the RCC, but is there an official opinion of him? Are there any Protestants, say- the Lutherans, who include him in their Saint calenders? Or is he purely only a saint within the Anglican Communion? I know he was only canonized in the Anglican Communion, but is his sainthood recognized by others? Or denied by others? Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 00:58, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Charles I was still not a Protestant or an Anglican. If the Stuarts were Anglican, James II wouldn't have been forced to abdicate. 92.20.197.74 (talk) 13:01, 22 April 2012 (UTC) James II/VII converted to Catholicism. Also Anglicism is a forms of Protestantism Bevo74 (talk) 16:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Should the sucessor be Oliver Cromwell or Charles II?Cooltiger989 (talk) 17:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
FWIW: Alletta (or, more common in Dutch: Aletta) Hogenhove was not married to Robert Carey, 1st Earl of Monmouth, but to Robert Carey, the son of Sir Edmund Carey of Moulton Park and his first wife Mary Crocker. This Sir Edmund Carey was the brother of the 1st Earl of Monmouth. See for instance Cracroft Peerage [search for "Hunsdon, Baron (E, 1559 - 1765)"] and Genealogics.org. To make things more complicated: according to GenealogieOnline the mother of Sir Edmund Carey's wife Maria Cocker was also called Aletta Hogenhove. Best, Jozefus (talk) 11:37, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Several times the text refers to "MacCulloch," (notes 83 & 84, a & b both). There is NO SOURCE for this. Please can someone add the source. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gobears87 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
The article says "Charles' son, Charles II, though he became king at the death of his father, did not take up the reins of government until the restoration of the monarchy in 1660".
What about saying "Charles' son, Charles II, who dated his accession from the death of his father, did not take up the reins of government until the restoration of the monarchy in 1660". That Charles II was the king during Cromwell's reign seems to rewrite history. Even say "became king in exile". Something. "Did not take up the reins" seems like a description of the interim rule of a regency council. I dare say that the beheading of Charles I triggered no preparations for the the opening of the reign of Charles II. The fact that he became king only after reaching an agreement with Parliament means that he was not king, in the opinion of many, until that agreement. In that case, that he was king prior to that was generally disputed; ie POV at best. ( Martin | talk • contribs 20:21, 16 November 2011 (UTC))
It's annoying to see the possessive form of names such as Charles and James being written with trailing apostophes. They should properly be written Charles's and James's, as they are pronounced. It is a widespread American misapprehension to think that the possessive of any word ending in 's' should be formed by a trailing apostrophe, but in fact this rule applies only to plurals ending in 's'. Please correct these errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mconnally (talk • contribs) 11:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
An examination performed in 1813 at Windsor suggests that the execution was carried out by an experienced headsman. This means his tomb was opened, right? Wouldn't there have been a good documentation of this, since it would be have been a big deal at the time? The article only contains this one line. --76.115.67.114 (talk) 11:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This article states that the executioners of Charles I wore masks. Is this correct? It would be unusual and against custom. Most drawings of Charles's execution do not show masks and there is no reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.101.77 (talk) 11:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
The article says that Charles moved to arrest the pym et al when he heard that Parliament was intending to impeach Henrietta Maria, and the authority cited is Loades, D.M. (1974), Politics and the Nation, London: Fontana. There is no mention of any such threat in Adamson, Noble Revolt, but only mention of the Parliament moving against her Capuchin monks. I wonder if anyone could shed further light on this? 1f2 (talk) 07:41, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Currently we have an explicit reference in the first sentence to a claim that Charles is "a saint in the Church of England", with a section in the main body that claims he was "officially canonised" as a saint. I'm not an expert on royalty or the Anglican Communion, but this leaps out slightly. The only source cited in this article for the claim - this BBC profile - makes no such assertion. Researching it further, the issue seems a little more complex than that - he does possibly have some form of status as a "martyr" and is the object of special reverence by some Anglo-Catholic groups, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that he is "officially" or formally a saint; or indeed that the CoE has saints at all in the sense they are commonly understood. Regardless, it is hardly the main thing he is known for, or something that is given quite such prominence in other profiles. It's a fairly arcane and technical issue that doesn't need to be among the first things said about him here. N-HH talk/edits 12:24, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
I've removed references to Charles being a saint in this article, Canonization and Society of King Charles the Martyr. I don't claim special expertise and I'm open to considering sourcing, but at the moment it doesn't look to me like there is a basis for saying that he was canonised. He does have a day dedicated to him in the Anglican calendar, but this doesn't seem to be any indication of sainthood. There are many people also commemorated in the same way who are clearly not saints (e.g. Samuel Johnson, Florence Nightingale, William Wilberforce, Josephine Butler - also, surprisingly, non-Anglicans such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Martin Luther and, though strictly not a non-Anglican, John Wesley). Formerip (talk) 22:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
For his execution, I am seeing (in this Wikipedia article) "Tuesday, 30 January 1649". When I run "cal 1 1649" (the Unix calendar command, to plot out January 1649) I do get 30 Jan. on a Tuesday, but the problem is that this is before 1752, and that command, for that time period, is using the calendar of England and its colonies, so I expect to see "Old Style" (Julian). What we now call "New Style" (the Gregorian calendar) wasn't in use yet, and at the time it was 10 days ahead of Julian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 14:43, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Oops, you may already understand this but I need to be explicit: Gregorian calendar wasn't in use yet IN ENGLAND, but it's pointed out it was already in use in France. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 22:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Do we or do we not assume that event dates from England before 1752 are understood to be noted here in Wikipedia as New Style? I recall reading that Jan. 30, 1649 date for Charles I execution very long ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 15:27, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
OK, I will try to look at that. A footnote would help; consider this from the Wikipedia article about Queen Anne:
"All dates in this article are in the Old Style Julian calendar used in Great Britain throughout Anne's lifetime; however, years are assumed to start on 1 January rather than 25 March, which was the English New Year."
Queen Anne's lifetime stretched across 1700, the year when the gap between Old & New styles widened from 10 to 11 days, but is still entirely during England's use of Old Style. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 15:51, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Did I overlook an existing footnote? Apparently, the footnote has been shifted to the death date, which is where Queen Anne's Wikipedia article has it. Looking at 1 or 2 "selected anniversaries" pages (links provided on the page you are reading), I discovered Charles I's execution listed on Jan. 30, but it seems we have an Old-Style date included with at least some events of Jan. 30 New Style. Maybe someone should review the anniversaries pages (and consider footnotes when Old Style is used), because of Charles I's execution being listed with an Old Style date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 14:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
An article can be failed without further review if, prior to the review, it has cleanup banners that are obviously still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{fact}}, {{citation needed}}, {{clarifyme}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). If the article is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria then it can be failed without being placed on hold. If copyright infringements are found in a nominated article then it can be failed without further review. In all other cases a full review against the six criteria is to be conducted and the nominator given a chance to address any issues.
User:Mark Miller I have asked you on your talk page a specific question about copyright I am copying it here so that others can see the question an your answer:
"We cannot accept File:Anne of Denmark; King Charles I when Prince of Wales; King James I of England and VI of Scotland by Simon De Passe (2).jpg" Who says? because I do not see such a restriction in Wikipedia:Image use policy indeed it specifically says "For example, a straight-on photograph of the Mona Lisa is ineligible for copyright", or under Wikipedia:List_of_policies#Legal -- PBS (talk) 14:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
I used File:Anne of Denmark; King Charles I when Prince of Wales; King James I of England and VI of Scotland by Simon De Passe (2).jpg as a test image, and I directed you to the policy on this issue. I do not find your answer very persuasive: "On Wikipedia, third party copyright claims restrict their use as non free images", yet you have not indicated under which policy you are drawing this conclusion. -- PBS (talk) 13:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
I have let this review go stale and will be returning to it shortly. I apologize for leaving it this long. I tend to get distracted easily...oh look...shiny thing!--Mark Miller (talk) 02:01, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I think the appendix section for notes and citations would be better if the short citations were laid out as they are in the Charles II of England. Unless any objects I will implement the change. -- PBS (talk) 13:15, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
There are many comprehensive biographies on Charles I, as there is a limit to the primary sources available give or take a few facts they all say much the same.
I think that this article has too may citations. Here are four examples, although there are hundreds (I exaggerate not) of others:
If you check out the picture on Wikimedia Commons, (which I have just corrected) you'll find that the painting that was first uploaded there was the original by van Dyck. But someone uploaded a larger clearer image of a studio copy over the top. That is the painting that you are currently looking at. The description says, correctly, that it is a studio copy, but the artist was still listed as Van Dyck (which is what I have corrected.
I was alerted because, on enlarging the image (the lead image) it was clear to me that it was a studio copy and definitely not by Van Dyck. The name of the file still attributes it to the Master, and that should be fixed, except that I don't know how one goes about changing the file names of images.
I would go for the triple portrait as the lead pic, or the Daniel Mijtens, rather than having an image of very dull colouration that turns out of the page instead of inwards. Amandajm (talk) 07:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
Why is Charles listed here in the title only as King of England? He was a half-Scot, half-Dane by birth. Born in Scotland and Crowned King of Great Britain and Ireland he is likely to have taken a dimm view of his reduction to monarch of only one of three kingdoms. After all, even when in arms agains the Scots he referred to Scotland as "his native and ancient kingdom". Moreover, he writes his letters not as king of England, but as King of Great Britain. Should we update the rather parochial title here, or should we create duplicate entries for Charles I King of Scotland and Charles I king of Ireland? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tentsmuir (talk • contribs) 12:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
If this is going to be extensively discussed as it is being it should have a subsection. There is no value in having nothing but main sections with a grab bag of subjects in them.Overagainst (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
This line:
In addition, the boundaries of the royal forests in England were extended to their ancient limits as part of a scheme to maximise income by exploiting the land and fining land users within the re-asserted boundaries for encroachment.
seems to me to be rather misleading. From the texts I've read about the actual deforestation programme, fines were just a mechanism for sale, not really an object of policy. Nothing seems to suggest that boundary changes occurred, except in removing the legal forest. The process was one of (a) assessment of value and compensation needed to those entitled to use the common, especially manorial landlords; (b) sale, or agreement to "fines", to be paid by new landlords, in return for enclosure; (c) enclosure, removal of forest law and often riot; (d) legal challenges to enclosure and (d) occasional reversals on the removal of forest law.
I think the general sources may have got this detail a little wrong in their emphasis. But I am only going on the texts I've been reading. Jim Killock (talk) 19:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
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Suggested external resource -
Spuddha (talk) 12:29, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
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Charles has the official fault of causing English Civil War in 1642,These was the declared by the european union in 1989. SaladinoIII (talk) 18:06, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
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Charles I (19 November 1600 – 30 January 1649[a]) was monarch of the three kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland from 27 March 1625 until his execution in 1649,He was executed by creating the English Civil war in 1642,This house was approved by the Unesco in 1989. SaladinoIII (talk) 18:15, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
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Charles I of England should not be listed as Charles I of England. He should be listed by his title of primacy; Charles I of Scotland. The reason is both simple and clear. James VI of Scotland inherited the English crown in 1603, making the English crown a secondary title of King's or Queen's of Scots. The primary or correct title of Charles I is Charles I of Scots or Scotland. Changing the nomenclature accordingly will make the article more technically correct. Kez321 (talk) 22:45, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Was he Charles I during his lifetime? The seals and paraphernalia should show the "I". Should be on post boxes too! He would have been Charles of Scotland. Scotland ceased to exist as a separate royal title with the Act of Union in 1702.220.240.229.144 (talk) 11:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
End of paragraph 3 of lead subject mentions Charles's son. Correct spelling is Charles' son. Sagavanirktok 23:12, 19 October 2016
A new editor has twice added this sentence: "He is the only saint to be canonized by the Anglican Communion that was not already a saint prior to the split with the Catholic Church."
I've removed that because I don't think it is correct. There are other people recognized as saints in at least parts of the Anglican Communion who are not recognized as such in the Roman Catholic Church.
However, the fact that some (but not all) Anglicans have considered him a saint should be discussed. Jonathunder (talk) 00:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
I have reverted the change in heading (diff.
In this case references consist of short and long citation. Splitting the long and shot citations with a "sources" is not desirable or necessary.
If anyone finds it confusing then I suggest moving the short citations into the notes section as they are short citations in footnotes (notes).
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