Loading AI tools
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bluing (steel) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
How does this relate to the blue finish one gets by simply heating steel or to "blue srping steel"? (See martensite). —BenFrantzDale 05:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
The process of heating steel after it has been hardened, known as tempering, can impart colors to steel ranging from pale yellow "straw" to very light blue. When done for decorative purposes it can be referred to as "Fire bluing", see the article on tempering for pics and more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.129.44.196 (talk) 04:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Please quit using an end ) in the URL as HTML does not like it.
Captain Cummings (68.48.36.183 (talk) 23:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)).
Thanks
I would like to add some comments about how this process related to blacksmithing. I believe that the process that blacksmiths use to blacken their forged pieces results in the same finish. After hot forging the piece will be naturally corroded. Allowing it to cool to the point that is can be coated with wax and then allowed to cool completely results in a hard and very black finish. Some people, me included, believe this how blacksmith got their name. They worked the black metal. I am not a metallurgist or chemist so I am not certain that this process results in the same finish. Could someone with more technical knowledge confirm that it is the same finish?
Dc6482 (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
I think the modifier on the title (steel) should be changed, because this process can be applied to other metals. For instance, the military documents in the references section state that it can be applied to wrought iron. Perhaps the modifier should be metal or ferrous metal. --Wizard191 (talk) 22:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm considering making a black oxide article, however, this article seems to have a lot of info on it. Upon reading the article I'm not sure if they aren't the same thing. Also, the military references refer directly to black oxide. So I guess my question is: 1. are they the same? 2. If not what's the difference? --Wizard191 (talk) 23:13, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I have tried two different ways of hot bluing; both failed. I then read it has to be done under pressure, and can be dangerous. Why not mention this?Tintinteslacoil (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This seems a cop-out to me -- if one process is done under pressure, or different results are done under pressure, this should be mentioned -- there is a BIG difference between "Take the batter and drop it into hot oil. . . ." (Donuts) and "Take the batter and drop it onto a well oiled flat piece of steel. . ." (pancakes) -- etc. THAT is a 'COOKBOOK'. I disagree with the concept of giving 'instructions' -- and explaining the process. "cook under pressure" will give you a Bagel, OR will give you a type of dumpling -- Which is it? I would HOPE that Wilipedea would be ALLOWED to tell the readers the difference -- or the Jack-booted thugs of small brains, sharp teeth and beady eyes will soon take over. I wonder if the censor has a clue about how many kinds of 'bluing' there are - or that various bones from various animals give predominately different colors -- how DO you get more "red" in the "blue", or more "straw" or more or a 'lighter' or 'deeper' blue? Very little is known about Color Case Hardening because most recipes are handed down from father to son. I have part of a book that talks about the difference between one year old lamb ribs, or 8 month old ham hocks smoked in hickory for 3-5 months -- and so on through various animals and bones, and how long they need to set out before you use them -- "Must not stand more than half a season. . ." to "3 Seasons in a sunny location seems to give the most metallic blue. . . " I ALSO don't see the place of oxidation in the 'harness' or 'coloring' of the metal. One person found that while the metal was still hot, it was best to use a billows to blow air between the metal being blued and the bucket it's about to be dropped into: "Hold the magazine cover no further away than 3/8th of an inch above the water and that instant you begin to see the color change, pump on the foot billows directing air between the metal and the water. I am told that this 'fixes' the finish to the metal, and turns it a (the discussion was mutton rib and lower limb bones mixed with some calf-clavicle)a light blue with streaks of ruby red floating on top of the blues and straws"..... the idea being that the introduction of oxygen in the presence of hydraulic steam at the exact temperature where you can 'feel it change' is VERY useful to people seeking the difference between various types of color in hard cold steel bluing -
There is reference to using wood chips - and each wood will give a different hugh when burned to charcoal -- Just as ANY beginning BBQ-er if Apple wood and Peach wood -- even when burned to black charcoal give off a different flavor for the wood-- or if you BBQ in black-oak, THEN follow that by apple and Cherry -- if the flavor is the same is starting with Cherry, and then switching to some Apple and finishing off with a very heavy black-oak smoke -- same woods, same lengths of time, only you change the order.
How would one make oat-meal -- Well first you put the oats on a fire, then you get a pot and fill it with water and bring it to a boil, add the oats, and cook for 20 minutes is FAR different than Boil water, add oats, then stir and cook oats for 20 minutes. NEITHER is a recipe -- but when I wanted to find out what Haggis was, it sure was handy to look it up and see that it was sheep stomach stuffed full of innards (lungs, liver, kidney, etc) the packed solid with oat-mean and sewn shut and tossed into a fire, preferably underground -- and there you have it -- the National Dish of Scotland.
So -- let's keep this an encyclopedia and not go around pretending it's not, or having someone say -- yeah, that "IT'S NOT A COOKBOOK" - especially when **I** want to know what color case hardened bluing is - and telling me that it is simply a 'black' bluing is like asking how they get the blue in Crayons and being told "Well, this old man, a Magician employed secretly by Crayola, takes just a little bit of blue from the sky and mixes it in with the wax like substance -- or While the color wheel is spinning, an elf with VERY fast hands snatches a color from the wheel, and puts it back before it's missed -- so when the wheel stops, the blue is still there!
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and someone who enforces rules they don't understand by hiding behind other rules they don't understand -- just doesn't cut it when it comes to people who DO know that there's a difference, but not exactly what it is --
I'll bet every old-time rilfe smith has his private recipe that works for him -- so many can pick up a rifle or pistol and say - Oh! Gary Davis blued this one! -- because Gary Davis has his own formula you will pry from his cold dead hads (IF you can get his safe open). Rust is NOT the same as 'black' -- and the color in color case hardening seems to do do with the amount of oxyigen and a bit of steam that work together to BOND the gas that forms between the water in the bucket and the barrel of the rifle and causes it to stick tight and repel water enough that it can last 100+ years if taken care of correctly.
About all I got out of this is that is should be a Ferris material, though I'm not certain about that. Just like Grandpa told me his Winchester 94 shifted 1/2 MOA at 100 yards after the first 10 rounds, so keep that barrel at a Kentucky of 1/4 MOA for an hour after that last shot -- but that's THAT gun,not Winchester 94's in general, and it had a VERY low SN, let's say within the first 100,000 or less. Someone needs to patrol these pages and make sure the truth is not being cut off, or misrepresented as it was here - and then 'ended' by saying 'this is not a cook-book, but how many people knew that different animals and different bones from those animals would change the color of the metal? Certainly not the firearms 'expert' who squashed the article. Heck, just this summer or the one before an NRA armorers school had a student do a project and found out it was OXYGEN and not some other active or inert gas that cased the color change. Firearms bluing is where there is still PLENTY of room for Alchemy since we have moved away from 'bluing' to more 'stable' and 'bonding' substances, like parkerizing, or even 'electroplating' parts so they'll out live the metal they encase! So let's all hear it for 2 sheep vertebrae, a veil femur, 1 ham-hock smoked in 2 parts hickory and 2 parts apple wood, heated to a whiteish red smoked over a hot oak fire, then held over a bucket of water where you made some peach wood 'tea' the night before -- and after you 'feel' it begin to cool, pump up that old billows made from horse hide and direct that copper and deer skin nozzle right between the water and the receiver - and let go the entire receiver the absolute SECOND it stops glowing red (because you KNOW the difference between the hallucinogenic cherry red, and the REAL cherry red) and just let it drop into that bucket of ICE COLD water - even if you had to go to the ice shed and brush aside some sawdust and get a chunk of real ice to get it cold enough -- and you'll have ruby red and brilliant emerald green that glows at you ALL night.
So let's not worry about what the exact pressure is, just knowing that some bluing happens under pressure and some doesn't is a VERY important piece of BASIC knowledge and I don't need a goody-goody two-shoes to tell me what the pressure is, I can find out if I need to -- This is NOT mean to be an ad hominum attack since I don't even care if the person name is real or not -- only that he doesn't know what he's talking about and that he's trying to keep me from finding out the truth! Pgalioni (talk) 22:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I was doing some calculations based on the beginning statement: "the black oxide of iron, which occupies the same volume as metallic iron." According to the Pilling-Bedworth ratio, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilling-Bedworth_ratio, this statement is not true. It has a volume change of about 2. I suggest that we change it unless I made a mistake somewhere.
Tycedi (talk) 18:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
"This is not a chemical means of bluing." That makes no sense. You hang it over fuming chemicals but it's not "chemical"? Tarchon (talk) 00:24, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
That jumped out at me, too. Using hot salts to convert Fe into FexOx is certainly a chemical process. I don't know if it's a typo, or a confused author. Steve8394 (talk) 19:09, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Under "limitations": Aluminium and polymer parts cannot be blued, and no corrosion protection is provided.
Polymers don't corrode: there would be no reason to attempt to provide corrosion protection by bluing, or anything else, to polymer. Doesn't need to be in there -- else you might as well also mention that it doesn't work on glass, plastic, celophane, wood, cotton, etc., etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.253 (talk) 01:38, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
"rust, the red oxide of iron (Fe2O3)" Fe2O3 is the red iron oxide, but rust is iron oxi-hhydroxide FeOOH.150.227.15.253 (talk) 16:53, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
"These work by depositing a coating of copper selenide on the surface." doesn't really make sense.150.227.15.253 (talk) 16:53, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
It's said that a hot solution "potassium nitrite or sodium nitrate" is used. Is this a typo or is it exactly as intended? the O and I key are adjacent, and nitrate salts are easier to acquire than nitrites. Just was curious, as an amateur chemist
Seamless Wikipedia browsing. On steroids.
Every time you click a link to Wikipedia, Wiktionary or Wikiquote in your browser's search results, it will show the modern Wikiwand interface.
Wikiwand extension is a five stars, simple, with minimum permission required to keep your browsing private, safe and transparent.