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![Former good article nominee](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/50px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png) | Ariana Grande was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. |
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- Great. I think we have finally found a great lead photo. Thanks for @Flabshoe1 for adding it! However, I just saw that his version was replaced with an edited one. I think the original isn't dark at all and looks more natural. You can clearly tell that the current one has been heavily enhanced. Instead of you using it for the main article, I would add that to the awards article. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:58, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't think it matters much. The only thing that makes the new version of the photo look edited is her dress, which probably should have gone unedited. Isthmus55 (t • c) 14:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- 1. There was no issue with the image in the first place. It looks more natural, has good lightning, and you can clearly tell it's her. So another version was needed, in my opinion. A lead image has no to be super bright to be a good one.
- 2. Grande looks much whiter in it, and she has been accused of "Asian and black-fishing" in the past. You can clearly tell that it's edited, especially when you look up the original image. Not a good look.
- 3. It's not the world, but there was no need to replace it with the "enhanced" one. It has no purpose, besides the visual aspect. Mirrored7 (talk) 16:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Between the edited and unedited versions, I think the edited version is better, mostly because of the better contrast between Grande and the background. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Besides all the points I stated before, it's the fact that is an edited photo. A lead photo should convey how the person really looks like. An edited photo is misleading and doesn't do it all. Mirrored7 (talk) 22:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Editing is not inherently bad or misleading. Sometimes it's simple corrections to exposure or enhancing poor lighting conditions. In this case, the edited version is actually closer to her genuine appearance than the original version is. (I prefer the edited version as well.) Prefall 22:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree (per Prefall) due to how much more accurate the edited photo is when it comes to her skin tone and the prominence of her features.
- "A lead photo should convey how the person really looks like." - When I say "how a person really looks like," I'm referring to how they look in natural lighting (or in this case, faux-natural). If someone is photographed in a pretty dark environment, is that "what they really look like"? If anything, a more edited photo to question would be this file. Isthmus55 (t • c) 23:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- You said in "natural lighting". This isn't natural lighting. I stand by it and don't think that there was an edited version needed. At all. However, majority wins and it's not the end of the world. At least there is a current photo of her now. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- And as I said right afterwards, "faux-natural", which implies a type of lighting that portrays a person in a similar fashion as if it was actually natural. You're right on that it isn't the end of the world, but we still just finished the several months-long RFC a week ago and don't need to debate over a quite frankly minor part of the photo. Isthmus55 (t • c) 00:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, you're right. At this point, the discussion should be closed. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- I’m in favor of either version (though maybe slight preference for unedited) as these are by far the best available options for a current available image of Grande. Trillfendi (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I'm happy, I'm not the only one who prefers the unedited one. So, 2-3.
- Still hoping there will be better images of Grande in the near future to use. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The photo was just restored to the 2015 version due to the RFC technically not being closed and this new section over its editing being opened up. Right now, there's 3 votes for the edited version and 1 vote for the unedited version (plus Trillfendi stating she doesn't mind either, though prefers unedited). @Trillfendi: Counting your mention of not minding either, this would be a 4–1 vote and might constitute consensus to close this RFC. Isthmus55 (t • c) 14:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I've boldly split off the new discussion. The connection to the RfC was entirely incidental. Suggest the following:
- First and asap get the RfC closed as "no consensus" or some such.
- Then provisionally replace the old lead image with the original (unedited) version, which looks to be an uncontroversial improvement at this point.
- Then replace that with the (or an) edited version if and when there is consensus for that in turn.
- No need to let process get in the way of progress!
- - 2A02:560:59D0:2E00:1D94:F5C5:A15F:A110 (talk) 16:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Consensus could still be made quickly on the discussion of the edited image. I wouldn't really consider the unedited pic to be the status quo, and closing the first RFC with no consensus will only leave the less desired 9-year-old image up if the second RFC doesn't lead anywhere. I agree with your last statement, but this really just seems like extra steps when we could just have 2 or 3 more users clarify their position and come to a consensus. Isthmus55 (t • c) 16:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't mind the 2015 image at all. It's literally everything, people think about, when they think about Ariana Grande as an artist/performer. I wouldn't mind the Met Gala photo, if it was the unedited version. The edited makes her look juvenile, and Grande is about to become 31. You also can clearly see, that's an edited photo. There was no reason to replace it in the first place. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't mind the 2015 image either, but if there's a clearer and more recent photo of someone that accurately and fully shows their face, that should be the preferred option. On the "juvenile" part...is that not just what she looks like nowadays (and a way to describe her looks in most of her years in the public eye)? I'm not talking about paparazzi photos, but her promotional photos for Wicked, the Met Gala, and her album cycle make her appear pretty similar to here. There needs to be more discussion if the editing is that important, however. Isthmus55 (t • c) 19:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Anecdotal but let it be known that some of her fans have complained about how outdated the lead image is on her article and have requested for a 2024 Met Gala photo to be used instead. Trillfendi (talk) 19:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
@Trillfendi, Isthmus55, Prefall, and Mirrored7:, page watchers, and others, would anyone object to changing the current image to File:Ariana Grande at the Met Gala 2024 (1).jpg (and thus avoiding another RFC, per Chess's closing statement)? I agree with Isthmus55 that this image has several benefits over the 2015 image: it's clearer, it's of higher resolution, and it more clearly shows her face. I don't think continuing to use the 2015 image in this article is the end of the world (one of the reasons why I did not opine in the RfC above), but I do think that using a clearer, more recent photo of the biography subject, if one is available, would be preferable. Also pinging @Davey2010 and Samuelloveslennonstella, who were the last couple of people to change the profile photo. Aoi (青い) (talk) 23:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- No objections for me for the same reasons. As for the lighting, the majority of readers don't click and zoom in onto the photo's finest details (of which I don't feel contain any problems), thus the image fits well for a casual viewer scrolling by. Isthmus55 (t • c) 23:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- My apologies I was unaware of this RFC existing and I'll be honest I had only read up to half of the closing RFC - Now that I'm now aware of these I'm happy for the image to stay and have reverted my original revert. Given the RFC close mentions lighting and singing which this image ticks and given the image was also mentioned at the very end of the RFC I guess there's no valid reason for the previous image to stay so yeah reverted, apologies again, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 09:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm kinda irritated. I haven't agreed to the change yet and as far as I know Trillfendi was pretty indifferent which version of the Met Gala photo should be used. I still stay by it. The version right now, is too bright, has an unnecessary close-up, her eyes look glassy. There's no reason to use the edited one, if the original had no issues to begin with it. If there would be consensus, I would also consider to keep the 2015 photo, as it's pretty much infamous, and shows her as a performing artist. There is nothing bad about using a much older photo. Justin Bieber's current one is from 2015 also, even if he has much newer ones. Plus, Isthmus55 doesn't mind of it use either. Mirrored7 (talk) 12:59, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, my vote for the 2015 photo was prior to either 2024 version being uploaded. The edited version has also had a major tone-down to the point where the non-edited version looks identical with higher screen-brightness. With Trillfendi saying she didn't mind either version, I don't think it should be counted as a vote for the non-edited version, as your comment is the only comment for it in a month after we finally came to a settled decision. Isthmus55 (t • c) 13:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- The 2024 image was used way before you you made that comment. What do you mean with "we". Only Aoi and you agreed to keep it. I haven't even replied, and yes, Trillfendi's opinion should be considered too, even if it was a month ago. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, I didn't realize you were talking about my June 1st comment. But right afterwards, I mention that "if there's a clearer and more recent photo of someone that accurately and fully shows their face, that should be the preferred option," which I still stand by. There's still some opposition to the 2015 photo, and you seem to be the only user continuing this conversation, thus I doubt that the 2015 photo constitutes as consensus. Isthmus55 (t • c) 15:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- To be too exact, it doesn't fully show her face. This is another issue, the “butterflies?” that she has on. I don't know if this appropriate at all, not that I have an issue with it, I'm just wondering. Also, not everything that is recent has to be the main image. The 2024 image isn't the issue itself, it's the edited version, that was unnecessary. The 2015 would be another option, if there will be no consensus, and should be the current lead image, as discussion hasn't closed yet, even if you say otherwise. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I personally think the photo is high quality enough to be her lead image. You're right that discussion is still open, I was just doubting whether anyone is going to be for changing back the picture, as it had been a month of no one disagreeing. I very well could be wrong, though. Isthmus55 (t • c) 20:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
For some reason, the occupation “Songwriter” has been removed without any explanation from Grande's info box and lead. Grande has songwriter credits on all of her albums and has been regard as such in the media. I'm tired of things getting removed on this article, just because someone personally doesn't agree with it.
@MidAtlanticBaby can you explain why you did remove it, without any further explanation? Mirrored7 (talk) 10:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Davey2010Talk Can you please re-add it? It has been discussed multiple times in here. The last time, it was three years ago, with consensus to have it stay on both, info box and the lead. It has been unexplained removed today from her info box and last month from her lead. Mirrored7 (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Mirrored7,
Done - Readded songwriter to shortdesc, lead and infobox.
- @MidAtlanticBaby - If you're going to remove content then at least explain why you're removing it in the edit summary box provided. –Davey2010Talk 12:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
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Remove “regarded as a pop icon”. There is no source or definition for that. It is highly subjective and not argumentative or provable by any fact. 2600:1014:B08A:C027:F8E1:EE03:5957:2E4A (talk) 17:11, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done: The article provides two sources for this statement. Ligaturama (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
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“Grande's various awards include two Grammy Awards, one Brit Award, two Billboard Music Awards, three American Music Awards, nine MTV Video Music Awards, and 36 Guinness World Records. Rolling Stone named her one of the greatest vocalists of all time.”
- Move this paragraph in the opening of the page to the lowest paragraph in the opening of the page before Early Life citing Grande’s various achievements in her career span. It makes the page look instantly messy with too many links upon first glance 2A00:23EE:14C8:12A9:614D:2402:9ADC:522C (talk) 05:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi IP user, exactly where in the last paragraph do you think this sentence should go? Should this be the first sentence of the last paragraph, or are you proposing to move it someplace else within that paragraph? Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 07:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done for now: I'm closing this since it doesn't seem the IP will be able to respond to my inquiry, though I do think the IP's reasoning makes sense, and moving the sentence to the final paragraph dealing with Grande's achievements would be consistent with the leads for other popular artists such as Taylor Swift. If another editor wants to WP:be bold and make the change, I would say to go for it. Aoi (青い) (talk) 01:24, 1 August 2024 (UTC)