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Palestinian citizens of Israel was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 21 March 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Arab citizens of Israel. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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On 21 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Arab citizens of Israel to Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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The result of the move request was: Not Moved - This is clearly a stale proposal at this point, having run since April of this year, and appears to have been superceded by other discussions ongoing on this page. As such this close is largely a formality, and is without prejudice to the outcome of any subsequently-opened discussion. Numerically there is no clear consensus in favour of moving. In terms of argumentation it largely centres around whether or not the proposed title is accurate, and whether it is concise, and again no real consensus is reflected here. (non-admin closure) FOARP (talk) 14:42, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Arab citizens of Israel → Palestinian and Arab citizens of Israel – Per the smart suggestion from Keizers in the discussion above, this middle ground should address the concerns of both sides.
Many editors have put a lot of time into this debate over many years, so we would ask you not to vote until you have reviewed the following discussions:
Onceinawhile (talk) 14:28, 16 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 20:25, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
It is done to alleviate the disruption/deception caused by abusing multiple accounts.) BilledMammal (talk) 15:50, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
In discussions such as WP:AFD, RFCs or other !voting discussion, you should strike their [(socks)] contributions using one of several available methods. [...] The goal is to make it obvious they are a sock so when the discussion is closed, their input will not be considered. This should be done for all blocked sockpuppets and sockmasters in a discussion.Iskandar323 (talk) 16:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose as per ElLuzDelSur, Galamore, Noah and Sir Joseph. GidiD (talk) 07:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
References
Ha, ha, ha! This made me laugh. Oppose of course. All of the citizens of Israel are Palestine citizens. So let's not make more confusion there. But a nice try though. :) With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 01:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Is the current title NPOV? (Edit, change to POV from NPOV since all the answers are the other way about) If not, what would be an appropriate title? Selfstudier (talk) 17:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
RFC before: RM of 27 October 2021 proposing the move Arab citizens of Israel → Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Subsequently, the article Palestinian citizens of Israel was spun out. Then the recently concluded Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinian citizens of Israel found a consensus to merge it back to this article.
The subsequent RM proposing a change to Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel was closed as no consensus.
#Requested move 16 April 2024 proposing Arab citizens of Israel → Palestinian and Arab citizens of Israel appears likely to conclude as not moved. Selfstudier (talk) 17:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
I looked for scholarly books (not papers, but books) from the last five years and could not find a single one that used "Arab Israelis" or "Israeli Arabs" in its own voice though several noted that this was what they used to be called in the past. Here's what I did find:
These victories were the crowning achievement of resistance by the communists and of support by the Arab citizens of Israel for the party.They also say, on page 228,
Ben-Gurion’s reply to the proposals of the leaders of Maki in general, and Tubi in particular, was that their position did not represent the opinion of Israeli Arabs.I'm only looking at individual chapters, so perhaps in a different chapter it uses different terminology? BilledMammal (talk) 15:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Kusa revealed in that article the varieties of discrimination from which Arab citizens of Israel sufferedon page 215 (no communist context). It also uses "Palestinians in Israel" eleven times, but "Arabs in Israel" 27 times - I hadn't previously been looking for either of these formats, as I think I misread your "Palestinians in Israel" as "Palestinian citizens of Israel" or maybe "Palestinian Israelis".
From "Israeli Arabs" through "Israel's Palestinian Citizens" to Participation in Israel's Governmentthat starts on page 280 and says:
Levivich (talk) 15:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)Israel’s own Arab or Palestinian citizens were strictly referred to as “Israeli Arabs,” as members of Israel’s “Arab minority” or “sector.” This curious choice of terms well expressed Israelis’ uneasiness about the Palestinian issue. It was, in a way, easier to cope with a national minority pertaining to an amorphous Arab world than with a people who laid specific claim to Israel’s own land. For twenty years or so, Israel’s Arab citizens accepted this terminology and used it themselves, but by the 1970s, they began to refer to themselves as Palestinians or as Palestinians who happened to be Israeli citizens. This was but one of many profound changes in the complex relationship between the Israeli state and its Arab citizens.
* * *
As in so many other respects, 1967 was a watershed year in the evolution of Israel’s Arab minority. The reemergence of an authentic and effective Palestinian nationalist movement and the removal of the physical barrier that had once separated them from the Palestinian and Arab worlds beyond Israel’s borders induced a process of Palestinianization. But the balance that had been achieved in practice between Israeli and Arab nationalist components in the community was upset. It was a measure of this change that the term “Israeli Arab” was discarded, and Israel’s Arab citizens came to refer to themselves as Palestinians.
How the group self-identifies should be considered. If their autonym is commonly used in English, it would be the best article title.BilledMammal (talk) 15:48, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
the predominant identity among Arab Israelis is Arab rather than Palestinianis untrue, and had not been true and has never been true. It is an identity that has been forced on that population by Israel, and also by Wikipedia. nableezy - 01:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
The current title is Israeli POV, clearly so, as to a degree are simple alternative suggestions. I'm not surprised if large numbers of these citizens choose to not argue with their 'official' name in a state whose founding principles are built around the premise that they, the previous numerically dominant group inhabiting the area, simply did not exist, they were part of some amorphous larger group whose real 'home' implicitly was elsewhere. I am also convinced from the sources proferred that a growing number of sources, and growing numbers of these citizens reject the 'Arab' label, for a variety of reasons. It is not our business to ignore or denigrate that identification. However 'Arab citizens of/Arab Israelis' or similar remain commonly used terms and are possibly the terms most accessible to the lay reader, therefore 'Arab' needs to remain part of the title until the overwhelming majority of sources, no longer employ it. Brevity in most circumstances is a virtue, accuracy is a greater one though. Pincrete (talk) 05:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
2003 | 2012 | 2013 | 2015 | 2017 | 2019 |
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62.2 | 63.8 | 64.4 | 63.2 | 71.8 | 65.9 |
Example sourcing:
...what label should be attached to them? Much more than merely semantics is at stake. how one chooses to identify the Arab minority in Israel is often indicative of one’s politics. Supporters of Israel generally refer to the Arab community in Israel as "Israeli Arabs" or "Arab Israelis" – using the terms commonly used by Israeli governments, the Hebrew-language media in Israel, and most Israeli Jews. Critics of Israel, by contrast, tend to describe Israel’s Arab citizens simply as Palestinians or Palestinian Arabs. in doing so, they emphasize the Palestinian national identity of the Arab population in Israel and clearly reject the Israeli state’s longstanding avoidance of that label. Which, if any, of these names is correct? Are Arabs in Israel "Israeli Arabs" or "Palestinian Arabs"? Are they Israelis or Palestinians? Ilan Peleg; Dov Waxman (2011). Israel's Palestinians: The Conflict Within (illustrated ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 26. ISBN 978-0-521-15702-5.
Selfstudier (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
A study of loanwords and code switching in spoken and online written Arabic by Palestinian Israelis (pp. 4-5)(2019)]: "In this dissertation I use the term Palestinian Israelis to refer to Palestinian Arabs who are citizens of Israel. The issue of naming this group of people is controversial, and there are many debates and arguments when it comes to how to introduce them and what to call their dialect of Arabic. [...] In addition, according to Peleg and Waxman (2011, pp. 27-28), Palestinian Israeli society has undergone “Palestinization” since the year 1967, whereby the national consciousness has spread, and Palestinian Israelis have increasingly refused Israeli-Arab identity. [...] According to Peleg and Waxman (2011), however, both “Palestinization” and “Israelization” can take place simultaneously and reinforce each other; they are not essentially paradoxical. The authors assert that “Arabs in Israel, especially younger generations, have become more Palestinian in their self-identity, and at the same time they have been deeply influenced by Israeli culture – a process of acculturation” (p. 28). Lauer (2007) shares Peleg and Waxman’s (2011) view and declares that identifying as a Palestinian does not necessarily require rejecting Israeli citizenship or avoiding Israeli culture. In this dissertation, I adopt the perspective of Lauer, Peleg, and Waxman. Accordingly, I consider Palestinian Israelis a suitable label for this group, as it reflects their dual identity." Selfstudier (talk) 13:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
"Arab-Israelis" and "Arab citizens of Israel" is the terminology overwhelmingly used in reliable sourcesFalse, see Ngram here Selfstudier (talk) 22:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
"Arab-Israelis" and "Arab citizens of Israel" is the terminology overwhelmingly used in reliable sources, for which zero evidence was provided. Selfstudier (talk) 10:38, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Long overlooked, Israel’s Arab citizens are increasingly asserting their Palestinian identity (WAPO 2021) "In just the past month, Palestinian citizens of Israel — also known as Israeli Arabs..."·
"Those who stayed, and their descendants, were dubbed "Israeli Arabs" by the nascent Jewish state, which uses the term to this day.
"But surveys show that the people that term is meant to describe favor "Palestinian citizens of Israel,""
"Scholars who study the issue say that preference for an explicit recognition of Palestinian identity has grown with time, especially in the past two decades. It is particularly strong, they say, among younger generations who did not experience the trauma of Israel’s birth — to Palestinians, the “Nakba,” or catastrophe."
Riots Shatter Veneer of Coexistence in Israel’s Mixed Towns (NYT)
"The people most Israelis have long referred to as “Israeli Arabs” — or colloquially by the demeaning “Arab sector” — now often self-identify as Palestinians, a term many Israeli Jews resent, viewing it as a rejection of Israel."
"Always a hybrid community — Israeli by citizenship, Palestinian by heritage, Muslim or Christian or Druze in religion, bilingual in Arabic and Hebrew, viewed with suspicion by some diaspora Palestinians, scarred by the trauma of their compatriots’ expulsion — they developed a sharper sense of Palestinian identity even as their demands for full rights as Israeli citizens grew."
Why Are Israelis Scared of Palestinian Identity? (Haaretz)
"Research and surveys consistently show that the Arab mainstream in Israel identifies as Palestinian; in particular, elected Arab leaders identify as Palestinian."
Palestine’s Emerging National Movement: "Questions On My Mind" (Carnegie)
"Indeed, social media provided the venue for Palestinian activists to insist on dropping “Oslo vocabulary” and refrain from calling Palestinians “Arab Israelis,” a label the state deliberately uses to erase Palestinian identity for those within Israel’s borders (because it would seem to deny their specifically Palestinian identity and links with Palestinian communities elsewhere)."
Selfstudier (talk) 13:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Further to the discussion above, here is a deep dive of Manna 2022 quotes:
Manna 2022 quotes |
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Manna, Adel (2022). Nakba and Survival: The Story of Palestinians Who Remained in Haifa and the Galilee, 1948-1956. University of California Press. doi:10.1525/luminos.129. ISBN 978-0-520-38936-6.
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It seems to me he uses both "Palestinians in Israel" and "Arabs in Israel," recognizing that the former is a subset of the latter. He does not really use "Israeli Palestinians" or "Arab Israelis." On page 233 (quoted in the box above) is where he talks about "obscuring the Palestinian identity of the remaining Arabs" by the use of terms like "Arabs in Israel" and "Israeli Arabs" (yet he uses the former multiple times throughout the book as quoted in the box above). Levivich (talk) 00:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
The current difficulties arise by virtue of the recent merge of Palestinian citizens of Israel into this article. The close said
"While there's no consensus that the article is a POVFORK, all seem to agree that there's a fair amount of content overlap between the two articles, even if the two population groups are not identical. This is a key criterion under WP:MERGE. Once we discard the views that are based on the "not the exact same population group" argument, we are left with a policy-based consensus to merge"
However, this argument is reversible, the merge could just as easily have been carried out in the other direction with the same logic. It was done that way because the editor proposing the merge asked for it, forcefully arguing (and editing) that there was no difference between PCI and ACI (which may well be true if one excludes the Druze). Selfstudier (talk) 12:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
One would expect "Arab citizens of Israel" to include Arab Jews, both the Old Yishuv and the post-1948 refugees from North Africa, who were rooted in Arabic culture just as much as, say, Arab Christians. Other Wiki-pages say the Old Yishuv represented 5% of the population in 1880, and the North African refugees increased Israel's population by 650,000, so they are not insignificant groups. Of course, they are positioned differently in terms of the Israel-Palestine conflict, so I can understand why this article was not intended to deal with them, but should there not at least be some discussion of the nuance here, if only to acknowledge that they are also part of the picture and say why they are not included? Doric Loon (talk) 08:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Lede: "Following the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, the Arabs who remained within Israel came under Israeli citizenship law," this sentence seems to claim to start from 1948 while jumping to 1966, conveniently avoiding mention of how the remaining Palestinians were put under military law and were non-citizens. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:27, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
There seems to be extensive use of the Amnesty International source as the sole source for many sections of the article. Ergzay (talk) 23:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
@Galamore: Care to explain why you indiscriminately reverted all of my edits? I would like to see a reason given for each edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
The stable lede was large and unwieldy. I’ve restored the trimmed version, except the first paragraph per concerns above, which I only removed the last sentence for being a duplicate of the last lede paragraph. starship.paint (RUN) 23:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
which was the other half of Mandate Palestineis a mistaken statement. That was a propaganda meme in early Zionism – the myth of the "first partition". Our articles on the topic explain the reality, that Transjordan was added to the mandate document as a legal convenience, but under an entirely separate administration with different objectives. It was never part of the legal entity of Palestine. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Within the infobox, please correct the Arabic name,
المواطنون الفلسطينيون في إسرائيل → المواطنون الفلسطينيين في إسرائيل
The adjective gets the nominative case of the noun — 🧀Cheesedealer !!!⚟ 05:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
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