User talk:Hans Adler/Archive 1
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My welcome message |
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Welcome! Hello, Hans Adler, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place You may be interested in joining WikiProject Mathematics, you can add your name to the list at Contributors and join discussions at the talk page. Good to see another Leeds mathematician. --Salix alba (talk) 12:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
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I try out the "helpme" template |
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Login to sister sites?
My login information does not seem to work in de.wikipedia.org or in en.wikiversity.org. I succeeded in creating a user of the same name in de.wikipedia.org. Is this how it is supposed to work, or is there a way to sign up for additional projects with the same login? (That's what I expected from having worked on ODP ages ago.) --Hans Adler 13:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
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My first conversations with CBM and Zero sharp |
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Math ratingsI noticed you have been doing a lot of good editing on math logic articles. The entire field of model theory is, as you can tell, not well represented. It's good to see someone working hard on it. I also noticed you added some {{maths rating}} templates to talk pages. When you do that, it would help if you take a second to assign quality and importance ratings. The details of the rating system are here. Otherwise, someone else has to do the thankless job of ranking lots of unranked but tagged articles. Even if you wrote the article yourself, you can rate it; anyone else may change the rating later, if they disagree. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC) Structure (mathematical logic)I noticed you marked that article for deletion and then reverted yourself. Did you want to move the article to a different name? — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC) Thank you......for your recent edits to various Maths articles, in particular Model Theory and friends. Please do use the Edit Summary, even if you're just making small edits. This makes it easier to see what's going on with these articles w/o having to do a diff (which, yes, is an extra two clicks, but still). Zero sharp (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
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Two technical matters |
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Contact Us (Village Pump)Thanks for your input on this. I've got the entire "Contact Us" lined up for a review in December; when I do, I'd enjoy hearing your view on it. I'm a bit busy for a week or so till then though. Thanks again! FT2 (Talk | email) 12:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC) zeteo ToolHallo, der Bug, den Du beschrieben hast, ist jetzt behoben. Fröhliches Referenzieren... Jakob.scholbach (talk) 20:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC) |
The two most unlikely editors discuss gay nightlife in Leeds |
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RE: edit to the Leeds articleIMO it looks like a brochure or advert, and in the general overview of Leeds is not notable. I certainly have never heard of Leeds been described as some sort of "gay capital of the UK" or anything along those lines, which that section seems to portray and advertise it as. I think it would probably need some vertification for such a claim (perhaps to be found on Google.com) though I'm quite squeamish and would have reservations about searching such terms, since this is the internet some of the results are bound to be explicit. - Yorkshirian (talk) 09:22, 15 January 2008 (UTC) |
Feedback from a site owner whose links I removed |
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deletion of external links -please explainHello, I have a question about your recent deletion of external links which has been added to some city pages such as Sydney. The external link was pointing to a video site which shows recent videos of cities, in very good quality, and updated several times a day. Here you can see an example of these links: http://www.earthtv.com/en/location/sydney In my opinion, this is a nice resource for someone interested in Sydney, as I don't know any other site who has almost live videos in such a quality to offer. Moreover, I read the WIKI guidelines for external linking, and I don't see why a link to this site should be inappropriate (the site has free access, free content, no ads, no offending content...) I would like to get to know your reason for deleting these links - don't you like the content? Maybe you could explain this to me - I don't want to push here these links, I really thought it would be a usefull resource for people interested in a city.. I wrote you an email a couple of days before, but haven't got an answer from you yet, so maybe I will get feedback when using the talkback page here.... Seeing forward to your reply
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Two people cleaning up the Freiburg mess in parallel |
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Freiburg history section editsHi Hans- You and I were doing the same thing at the same time! I got an edit conflict when I went to save, so I looked at what you'd done. I was doing essentially the same changes, plus a few, so I overwrote yours with mine. Hope you don't mind, and let me know if I got anything wrong. -Eric (talk) 19:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
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Personal discussion with Gregbard, metalogic |
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Talking down to me.Hans, I have been studying logic (and apparently metalogic) since 1996. I'm betting that's as long or longer than many of these people. I learned using these terms. It seems some of them may be different than the terms that many have used by this crowd before. I don't know if you have heard or seen any of our discussions at WP:MATH and Talk:Theorem, and other places about the relation between mathematical logic and logic, (or in some minds philosophy v math). The motivation for deleting this category is POV not accuracy. Furthermore, it is obvious that this is the case, and I don't have to pretend it isn't. I would think this is their chance to learn about a new perspective on familiar things, but they are hostile instead. That is a very close-minded, ignorant, arrogant, not to mention very non-intellectual way to be. We have a source for these terms I'm using, and I am using them correctly. The source is an excellent one (still being used a source for this subject, not obsolete). There is no reason to reject the category, or any of the terminology that I am weaving into articles about this subject. You should learn to respect the different terminology and perspective that others have on things, and not be so hostile it. This deletion debate is only about territory and personal identity as a mathematician (not being a lowly philosopher). Arthur is a troublemaker plain and simple, and his talk page tells the story. Exactly what makes you believe I don't "really understand[...] the full context of the book"? I invite your correspondence on that issue particularly. Maybe you could quiz me? I think you are really just ramping up your sensitivity (read:intellectual snobbery) level a bit much there. I wouldn't be awaiting Arthur's opinion for anything. He is a trouble maker plain and simple. I learned these concepts from within the context of metalogic. Others may have learned them in the math department. Why is the existence of this category such a threat? I'm pretty sure you don't understand the context quite frankly. Carnap and Tarski both wrote on the metamathematics v metalogic issue. It's not a neologism and its not obsolete. Pontiff Greg Bard (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
In fact, as conversational subjects I prefer religion to philosophy, and polytheism to monotheism. (Less abstract and more colourful.) I have chosen my field because it is a very abstract and efficient way of doing generalised hardcore algebra. I respect the historical connections to philosophy, but I don't really want to know about them, because I have never been interested in the meaningless questions that philosophers ask. In my opinion philosophy has been in decline ever since Plato started hallucinating about "ideas". Things got even worse with Aristotle, and I don't even know what happened after that.
No problem with that. When I noticed that you recategorised some of the articles I am most interested in from Logic or Model theory to "Metalogic", which I had never heard of before, I thought: "It looks strange, but these philosophers will know what they are doing with this category. Not a good idea to remove the articles from the other categories, but I can fix this later." Up to that point I assumed, on your part, competence, good faith, rational behaviour, good manners, basically everything positive.
I think you are being a little harsh and really over-dramaitizing to a degree here, however, I take your advise seriously. You are giving me the straightforward and forthright view that you have. So, Thank you for that. Arthur and I have managed to exchange plenty of civil discourse, some of it productive too. I think we all are capable of putting the interest of the content above the personalities at this point. However, I sure wish he would leave me alone. I'm not really concerned about recognition in any regard, I just want the material on these topics out there. I stand by my mainspace edits. I do not play around. I really just want the tools that I use available to me when I wish to use them in the future. These are the terms I use to explain things, so lets work them into the scheme here.
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Personal discussion with Zenwhat after a WQA incident |
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Please relaxPart of this conversation took place on Zenwhat's talk page and has in the meantime been deleted. I initially assumed Cheeser1's comment was made in good faith, which is why I said:
All Cheeser1 had to do was say, "Yes, the next step in dispute resolution." Instead, he decided to insult my intelligence by implying I don't know the definition of escalate:
I know the definition of the word. There's definitely some sardonicism there. You know, sardonicism, as in "pithiness." (I don't mean to be rude here, like Cheeser1 was -- just using his same language to demonstrate the point). I am distressed because I have come across a number of cases where Wikipedia is mismanaged. When I turn to the places I'm supposed to turn -- wikiquette alerts or the noticeboards, I'm either ignored or I'm told my comments don't belong there. I am extremely humble, polite, even to the point of being self-deprecating, but still, people have to make comments like that. At the very least, he could simply apologize and say, "I'm sorry if it came across that way," or something. Here is an example of something I put through in ArbCom a while back. I've tried to address this by attempting to improve policy -- for instance, by writing extensive essays, emphasizing the fact that WP:IAR is the first rule and attempting to add clarification, and by re-wording WP:NPOV so that it encourages "objective" analysis, not POV-pushing. In this case too, I was obstructed. I cannot make any edits unless Wikipedia's collective bureaucratic democracy (despite WP:NOT, that's what it is) agrees with my edits. Since you edit stuff on mathematics, obviously, you aren't going to come across these problems because there aren't hordes of "math POV-pushers." Try editing anything either political or religious. And finally, worst of all, there aren't even any places to turn for help on this, since WP:Esperanza and every single fork of it is dead. ☯ Zenwhat (talk) 10:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC) "Your version of reality"? More pithiness. Goodbye. ☯ Zenwhat (talk) 19:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC) |
Personal discussion with Gregbard, continued |
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end run by math peopleDo you see the latest proposal to depopulate the category, and/or segregate it from mathematical logic? In the face of the impending results, they are taking their toys and going home. This is a total bait-and-switch operation. Do you see what I have to deal with? Pontiff Greg Bard (talk) 00:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
1. Metalogic within Mathematical Logic. For example, the program to reverse-engineer necessary axioms from extant theorems. That's metalogic within mathematical logic. 2. Metalogic pertaining to, but outside, Mathematical Logic. The bit of Aristotle I hastily grepped could be viewed as reasoning to necessary logical constructions (the necessity of some first principles) from Theory of Mind, which is tied up in Metaphysics. If such thinking ever got anywhere it might be applicable to us :-) But in a way, Philosophy never gets anywhere. When they start making progress, the topic becomes a science and isn't properly philosophy anymore (as we use the term today). So Alchemy becomes Chemistry once they start having reproducibility &c. Theory of Mind becomes Psychology and cognitive neuroscience. What remains may always be vague and confused, but that's ok; it's the Chaos from which the Word emerges :-)
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I try to mediate in the Barzilai/Krantz discussion |
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KrantzFWIW, I suspect that people are misreading Krantz's tone. I don't know him personally, but I do know a lot of people in this area, and have read a great deal of the literature. Setting aside a few people like Savage, there just isn't much concern for gentility. While there is no question that Krantz has low regard for Barzilai, I wouldn't expect a discernibly different tone were Krantz simply annoyed. —SlamDiego←T 04:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
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